Oldest instance of sampling?

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  • hemolhemol 2,578 Posts
    On Sgt. Pepper the Beatles used recordings of various organs that were cut up and spliced haphazardly in order to create the effect that they were looking for. I can't remember the name of the track, but it's the one with the circus-like organ sonuds.

  • DubiousDubious 1,865 Posts
    being for the benefit of mister kite

    tape was cut randomly.. put i na bag and drawn out spliced in the resulting random fashion

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    How deep do you want to go. The Beatles borrowed their ideas from musique concrete. Rolank Kirk's "Rip, Rig And Panic" uses a number of tapes.

    The Beatles' "Tomorrow Never Knows" consists of a drum loop, which gives it a live feel. You can hear the transformation of the song through bootlegs, where it starts out as a band song and ends up consisting of nothing but pre-recorded sounds, apart from John's vocal track.

    The Mellotron is considered to be one of the first modern sampling instruments, as it is a keyboard instrument which uses tape loops. When triggered, you hear the sound that's on the tape. While The Beatles have been credited for playing it in "Strawberry Fields Forever", they were not the first, nor were they the best at it. For that, you can listen to King Crimson's In The Court Of The Crimson King. However, like the sitar, the Mellotron become synonymous with the "psychedelic 60's".

    Jimi Hendrix played around with it and used pre-recorded tapes in Electric Ladyland, specifically in "And The Gods Made Love" and "moon turn the tides, gently gently away", although he did the same thing on Axis: Bold As Love on "EXP", and of course the slowed down voics heard on Are You Experienced? in "Third Stone From The Sun".

    Tape manipulation was one of the first ways to take a sound that was recorded and turning it into something else, which paved the way for what we know as sampling. A record was meant to archive a live performance, and a record was a quick solution to not being able to go to a concert. Magnetic tape changed all that, as one was able to perform over and over until the song was right. Or, as depicted in many movies (such as "La Bamba"), the producer and/or engineer was able to create a full song from multiple takes. Some were obvious, some not so. Take a listen to Lee Dorsey's "A Lover Was Born" as an example of a bad edit.

    There were ethics in the recording studio, and rules to follow. Once the artists started having control, and having more of a role with their own music in the recording studio, then add to that the knowledge of the engineers who were willing to take risks, that changed the way music was recorded. Les Paul's multi-tracking was another dimension, but no longer did a singer have to be in the studio with a full band or orchestra, and no longer did an entire band need to be in the studio at the same time. It was possible for one person to play everything if need be. When someone played with the tape by slowing it down, speeding it up, moving it backwards, or holding the reel as it plays so it would flutter (listen to Eric Clapton's solo "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", or "Here Comes The Sun" for examples of someone messing with the tape machine during the recording), it was only a matter of time before someone was able to combine the various elements and use them.

    Quick summary: the mellotron is an early example of an instrument that replayed pre-recorded sounds, useful as it was able to create lush orchestrations without a lush orchestra, a need to eliminate musicians when you were without a Beatles budget. Various synths and keyboards have been known to re-create certain sounds, but it was more about the exploration of sound to create new sounds. In other words, its original intention was not for keyboards to become a horn section, even though that's what they became, especially throughout the 80's.

    Good call I hadn't thought of the mellotron. The point of the paper is not so much to provide an accurate history of sampling, as it is to provide some info that contextualizes a sampling demonstration as part of a historically locatable process.

    In regards to the validity of reference sources: there are not many resources for sampling, as I was told by a teacher. Add to that a lot of academics who are writing about hip-hop and sampling do not have any experience with hip-hop or sampling, thus the writing winds up becoming a kind of codified subjectification as the institution of academia sets its standards for what it thinks sampling is.

    The mediatization of music (effects and alterations that take place in the recording) is a whole other equally fascinating issue that I would be more than happy to discuss.

    Thanks again.

    It is really important to make a working definition of sampling to begin your thesis. I'm not really clear if you've said that here and I think that's why you are getting all these responses.

    It seems you are starting from a hip-hop perspective of sampling and going back many many years before. That's confusing IMO. There's great chapter on tape editing in this highly recommended book:



    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0500202788/104-3340812-5456764?v=glance&n=283155

  • hemolhemol 2,578 Posts
    I'm starting from hip-hop because as far as I know it is the medium that brought sampling to popular culture as a codified practice. Hip-hop provides the point of engagement that most people can recognize, then I contextualize sampling as a long-running practice.

    Anyways, I am only providing a brief background on sampling, the majority of the paper will focus on a specific method of sampling that I use where sounds are thouroghly decontextualized, but only through a multiplicity of amplifications of those characteristics that constitute their structure; I make the punctum into the studium.

    I know this is less than half-way explained here, but it is a rather lengthy thing to describe. I've written a bit about it on my blog if you are interetsed. I will certainly send you a copy when the work is done, if you'd like.

    Thanks for the book recommendation, Iw as actually just about to go to the library to get some stuff.

  • johmbolayajohmbolaya 4,472 Posts
    some quick clear ups..

    tomorrow never knows - the drums arent a tape loop.

    Wrong

  • Another book recommendation. Joel Chadabe's Electric Sound: The Past and Promise of Electronic Music. I took a class from him a couple semesters ago. He's all about the philosophy behind man/machine composition and the creation of sound environments/installations. It gets pretty in depth since he worked with Cage, Subotnik, etc, but it's worth checking out if you're into the history of avant electronic composition.

  • girgir 329 Posts
    isn't there a 45 that came out before the dickie goodman record that was jingle bells made up of dog barks a guy recording bird calls had made when he found all his recordings of the birds had dogs barking in the background?

  • canonicalcanonical 2,100 Posts
    Many electronic musicians from the 60s were using field / tape recordings and messing with them, perhaps even earlier although I'm not even sure.

    A cool example from the 70s is the Travelon Gamelon record on Folkways, where dude took field recordings of bicycles and made some interesting compositions out of them.

  • DubiousDubious 1,865 Posts
    some quick clear ups..

    tomorrow never knows - the drums arent a tape loop.

    Wrong

    you've read the complete beatles recordign sessions and revolution in the head? both of which clearly state ringo played the drums.. band laid the bed tracks.. and then went home and made the tape loops on their home revox's ... came back and flew them in live while the backing track played.

  • hemolhemol 2,578 Posts
    isn't there a 45 that came out before the dickie goodman record that was jingle bells made up of dog barks a guy recording bird calls had made when he found all his recordings of the birds had dogs barking in the background?

    Yes, and I read about this recently, but I don't remember where. Yes Is do, in David Toop's book Haunted Weather. Great read.

  • hemolhemol 2,578 Posts
    isn't there a 45 that came out before the dickie goodman record that was jingle bells made up of dog barks a guy recording bird calls had made when he found all his recordings of the birds had dogs barking in the background?

    Carl Weismn, a Danish wildlife phonographer. The record came out in 1955 on RCA. It sold 500,000 copies in the U.S., and reached #13 on the charts in the U.K.--as told in Haunted Weather by David Toop.
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