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Tony Snow Hugs Tar Babies (NRR)

Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
edited May 2006 in Strut Central
These guys are really, really dim...
CBS REPORTER: Why not declassify [the NSA's call records database]? I mean, the President did talk about the surveillance program a day after the New York Times broke that story. This would seem to affect far more people and it did sound like the President was confirming that story today when he was answering questions. SNOW: If you go back and look through what he said, there was a reference of foreign to domestic calls. I am not going to stand up here and presume to declassify any kind of program. That is a decision the President has to make. I can't confirm or deny it. The President was not confirming or denying. Again, I would take you back to the USA Today story to give you a little context. Look at the poll that appeared the following day [...] something like 65% of the public was not troubled by it. Having said that, I don't want to hug the tar baby [/b]of trying to comment on the program... the alleged program, the existence of which I can neither confirm or deny.

  Comments

  • dayday 9,612 Posts
    It's odd you should post this (or should I say, he should say that). I happened to read that same "figure of speech" today in a book. I had never heard it before and I was taken aback as well.
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Tar baby is a character in a Southern folktale in which a fox is out foxed. I can't remember details.
  • BigSpliffBigSpliff 3,266 Posts
    Tar baby is a character in a Southern folktale in which a fox is out foxed. I can't remember details.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brer_Rabbit
  • aegisaegis 261 Posts
    Yeah, it is basically getting tricked into doing something.

    I haven't heard it used in a long time, but I learned the story in elementary school. I seemed to recall it as one of Aesop's Fables, but I might be wrong. I have never heard it referred to as being racist or offensive, and since I learned it in an elementary school that was over half black I never thought anything strange about it.
  • kitchenknightkitchenknight 4,922 Posts
    Man...I have never heard Tar Baby NOT used in a racist sense. I understand it may have literary roots, and I am normally pretty defensive of those sorts of things, but I think the point is that the f-ing Press Secretary of the U.S. President should maybe think a little more before speaking. Now, I know that thinking probably goes against official policy, but maybe they should reconsider.
  • ChequeDaEditChequeDaEdit 135 Posts
    It's odd you should post this (or should I say, he should say that). I happened to read that same "figure of speech" today in a book. I had never heard it before and I was taken aback as well.

    I too came across the phrase "Tar Baby" this afternoon while I was reading the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Allusions. Who knew people still f#cked up saying like this.

    Tar Baby Out!
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    the point is that the f-ing Press Secretary of the U.S. President should maybe think a little more before speaking.
  • dayday 9,612 Posts
    the point is that the f-ing Press Secretary of the U.S. President should maybe think a little more before speaking.

    I don't think that dude's gonna last. It was a bad time to throw him to the wolves with all the shit that's going on. It should make for some good TV though.
  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    Tar baby is a character in a Southern folktale in which a fox is out foxed. I can't remember details.

    It's from the Uncle Remus stories (remade and subsequently hidden by Disney as 'Song of the South'...zip-a-dee-doo-dah and all that...)
  • Ex-BoyfriendEx-Boyfriend 795 Posts
    chill, its not like he called a spade a spade.
  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    chill, its not like he called a spade a spade.

    Racist
  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    Yeah, it is basically getting tricked into doing something.

    I haven't heard it used in a long time, but I learned the story in elementary school. I seemed to recall it as one of Aesop's Fables, but I might be wrong. I have never heard it referred to as being racist or offensive, and since I learned it in an elementary school that was over half black I never thought anything strange about it.

    Well if you're as old as I am the Song of the South (mentioned by funky16) was also still pretty popular back then too... the movie has since been banned and disowned by Disney
  • kitchenknightkitchenknight 4,922 Posts
    Just because it is a coloquilism or from another era doesn't mean it isn't offensive; we could explain away his use of "pin the tail on the nigger," by saying, "Hey, Tony Snow is old, and when he was growing up that was what the game was called." We could also label things, "Colored," because that is what happened when Tony Snow was younger.

    But, that doesn't mean that they don't offend people. And, any rightminded adult should know better than to use figures of speech such as that. I'm not trying to argue the super PC line, just that as times change, people's sensibilities need to change with it. Especially someone who works for the President of the United States.

    (though, for this president, 'change' is tantamount 'flip-flopping'.)
  • sabadabadasabadabada 5,966 Posts
    Just because it is a coloquilism or from another era doesn't mean it isn't offensive; we could explain away his use of "pin the tail on the nigger," by saying, "Hey, Tony Snow is old, and when he was growing up that was what the game was called." We could also label things, "Colored," because that is what happened when Tony Snow was younger.

    But, that doesn't mean that they don't offend people. And, any rightminded adult should know better than to use figures of speech such as that. I'm not trying to argue the super PC line, just that as times change, people's sensibilities need to change with it. Especially someone who works for the President of the United States.

    (though, for this president, 'change' is tantamount 'flip-flopping'.)


    flip flopping is so 2 years ago.
  • kitchenknightkitchenknight 4,922 Posts
    Just because it is a coloquilism or from another era doesn't mean it isn't offensive; we could explain away his use of "pin the tail on the nigger," by saying, "Hey, Tony Snow is old, and when he was growing up that was what the game was called." We could also label things, "Colored," because that is what happened when Tony Snow was younger.

    But, that doesn't mean that they don't offend people. And, any rightminded adult should know better than to use figures of speech such as that. I'm not trying to argue the super PC line, just that as times change, people's sensibilities need to change with it. Especially someone who works for the President of the United States.

    (though, for this president, 'change' is tantamount 'flip-flopping'.)


    flip flopping is so 2 years ago.

    But racism never goes out of style!
  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    I'm sure he meant "hug the 'tar, baby"... 'tar of course meaning guitar, and he doesn't want to hug it, baby.


    Dang, I should work in the white house.
  • VagabondVagabond 417 Posts
    Here is some interesting info on the film and Disney's CEO's stance on it at this time....

    March 11, 2006

    Disney CEO Robert Iger: No Song of the South Yet

    During the question and answer session at Disney's 2006 Annual Meeting of Shareholders in Anaheim, CA, the question was raised by a Disney shareholder why Song of the South has not been released. Here is a transcript:

    "My name is Howard Cromer. I live in Cypress, I'm a Disney shareholder. I'm actually delivering a message from my son, 10. He wants to know in recent years, in the midst of all your re-releases of your videos, why you haven't released Song of the South on your Disney Classics?" [Applause] "And, he wonders why. Frank Wells told me many years ago that it would be coming out. Well obviously Frank Wells isn't around anymore, so we still wonder why. And by the way, Mr. Iger, he thinks it was a very good choice when they made you CEO of Disney." [Applause]

    Iger: "Thank you very much. You may change your mind when I answer your question, though. Um... we've discussed this a lot. We believe it's actually an opportunity from a financial perspective to put Song of the South out. I screened it fairly recently because I hadn't seen it since I was a child, and I have to tell you after I watched it, even considering the context that it was made, I had some concerns about it because of what it depicted. And thought it's quite possible that people wouldn't consider it in the context that it was made, and there were some... [long pause] depictions that I mentioned earlier in the film that I think would be bothersome to a lot of people. And so, owing to the sensitivity that exists in our culture, balancing it with the desire to, uh, maybe increase our earnings a bit, but never putting that in front of what we thought were our ethics and our integrity, we made the decision not to re-release it. Not a decision that is made forever, I imagine this is gonna continue to come up, but for now we simply don't have plans to bring it back because of the sensitivities that I mentioned. Sorry."



    April 16th 2006
    Song of the South Parodied on Saturday Night Live

    On TV yesterday, Saturday Night Live aired an episode of TV Funhouse that poked fun at Disney's DVD sequel exploits. Modeled after a Disney commercial, kids are invited to take a "Journey to the Disney Vault." Inside, the kids discover things that Disney has "kept secret." One of the children picks up a video:

    Boy: "I've never heard of this one... Song of the South?"
    Mickey Mouse: "Ohh, nobody wants to see that one anymore!"
    Girl: "How bad could it be?"
    Mickey Mouse: "It's the very original version that he [Disney] only played at parties."
    Uncle Remus: "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah, Zip-A-Dee-Ay... negroes are inferior in every way; whites are much cleaner, that's what I say; Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah, Zip-A-Dee-Ay."

    Interestingly, they use actual footage from Song of the South. A clip of the entire TV Funhouse segment is available for viewing here.

    Disney's portrayal of Uncle Remus has been parodied before in Saturday Night Live's "Uncle Jemimah's Pure Mash Liquor" commercial, in which Uncle Jemimah walks among animated characters and music similar to Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah is played in the background. T.V Funhouse Song of the South Parody.
  • Dabney_SoulmanDabney_Soulman 890 Posts
    Here is some interesting info on the film and Disney's CEO's stance on it at this time....

    March 11, 2006

    Disney CEO Robert Iger: No Song of the South Yet

    During the question and answer session at Disney's 2006 Annual Meeting of Shareholders in Anaheim, CA, the question was raised by a Disney shareholder why Song of the South has not been released. Here is a transcript:

    "My name is Howard Cromer. I live in Cypress, I'm a Disney shareholder. I'm actually delivering a message from my son, 10. He wants to know in recent years, in the midst of all your re-releases of your videos, why you haven't released Song of the South on your Disney Classics?" [Applause] "And, he wonders why. Frank Wells told me many years ago that it would be coming out. Well obviously Frank Wells isn't around anymore, so we still wonder why. And by the way, Mr. Iger, he thinks it was a very good choice when they made you CEO of Disney." [Applause]

    Iger: "Thank you very much. You may change your mind when I answer your question, though. Um... we've discussed this a lot. We believe it's actually an opportunity from a financial perspective to put Song of the South out. I screened it fairly recently because I hadn't seen it since I was a child, and I have to tell you after I watched it, even considering the context that it was made, I had some concerns about it because of what it depicted. And thought it's quite possible that people wouldn't consider it in the context that it was made, and there were some... [long pause] depictions that I mentioned earlier in the film that I think would be bothersome to a lot of people. And so, owing to the sensitivity that exists in our culture, balancing it with the desire to, uh, maybe increase our earnings a bit, but never putting that in front of what we thought were our ethics and our integrity, we made the decision not to re-release it. Not a decision that is made forever, I imagine this is gonna continue to come up, but for now we simply don't have plans to bring it back because of the sensitivities that I mentioned. Sorry."



    April 16th 2006
    Song of the South Parodied on Saturday Night Live

    On TV yesterday, Saturday Night Live aired an episode of TV Funhouse that poked fun at Disney's DVD sequel exploits. Modeled after a Disney commercial, kids are invited to take a "Journey to the Disney Vault." Inside, the kids discover things that Disney has "kept secret." One of the children picks up a video:

    Boy: "I've never heard of this one... Song of the South?"
    Mickey Mouse: "Ohh, nobody wants to see that one anymore!"
    Girl: "How bad could it be?"
    Mickey Mouse: "It's the very original version that he [Disney] only played at parties."
    Uncle Remus: "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah, Zip-A-Dee-Ay... negroes are inferior in every way; whites are much cleaner, that's what I say; Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah, Zip-A-Dee-Ay."

    Interestingly, they use actual footage from Song of the South. A clip of the entire TV Funhouse segment is available for viewing here.

    Disney's portrayal of Uncle Remus has been parodied before in Saturday Night Live's "Uncle Jemimah's Pure Mash Liquor" commercial, in which Uncle Jemimah walks among animated characters and music similar to Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah is played in the background. T.V Funhouse Song of the South Parody.

    We were talking about this on set a few days ago. I'm not a fan of censoring or concealing history. This film shows a period of time in which Disney felt it right to release such an offensive tale. There is no sweeping truth under the rug, If the guys that own the Superman cartoon can release the "Japoteurs" episode on several DVD collections I don't see why Song of the South shouldn't be put out.

    As far as racist terms that have made it into everyday american speech how many of you use the term gyp, or lame?
  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    Isn't this conversation becoming a rehash of the one we had about Little Black Sambo?

    At any rate, I never saw the Disney movie, but I did have a Disney storybook of it as a kid, and I freaking loved it. Of course, being a child, I had no real grasp of the racial implications of the story; I just thought it was a funny story about an anthropomorphic animal getting stuck in tar because he thought the tar was a real person and tried to punch it. If I gleaned any "lesson" from it--and that's a big if--that lesson would be that flailing about in anger and frustration only makes things worse.

    Still, Tony Snow's a freaking moron for dusting off such a racially loaded chestnut of an expression.
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Isn't this conversation becoming a rehash of the one we had about Little Black Sambo?
    Yes.

    It's all about Bob B Soxx And The Blue Jeans.

    Note cleaver icon use.
  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    Isn't this conversation becoming a rehash of the one we had about Little Black Sambo?

    Yes.

    It's all about Bob B Soxx And The Blue Jeans.

    Note cleaver icon use.
    Duly noted sir.
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