Why Im like "Fuck the Co-Op!" (nrr)

Sun_FortuneSun_Fortune 1,374 Posts
edited March 2006 in Strut Central
In the past few weeks I've come to the realization that eating anything made through the agri-business system is unethical. I wont get into that incredibly boring parts of the argument, but all you have to do is really study the numbers for five minutes and its easy to see how unsustainable and terrible it is for our health, our enviorment and for animals. So I'm trying to find some places to buy foods that are made semi-locally and on humane and enviormental farms. Whole foods and soon Trader Joes seem like options, but they are both so expensive. Im not saying that food and especially meat prices should not reflect their true value, but those stores are businesses catering to a specific, well-eduacted, financially stable demographic. I dont really trust them.I started looking into shopping at the co-op, and you have to pay a member fee (which Im fine with) and work there a couple hours a week. Now Im young, and although I find myself pretty busy, I should be able to pitch in a bit. But here's the rub: If you talk to anyone for a bit of time about the food we eat, almost anyone will agree and be willing to shop at a humane and ecologically friendly place. Even though, most of these people won't. And the reason is one of convenience. George and Martha Beercan who are raising their kids and working hard jobs, want to eat right and be ethical memebrs of our society, but they simply dont have the time or in the cases of those upscale health food markets, the money to shop there. Im not exactly sure what it is that a co-op is supposed to be, but from what I can tell they are trying to be a contemplative and humane alternative to agri-business. Their motto is the same as mine -- that it is unethical to support agri-business. But because they are an exclusive club and only those who have the time to work there can shop, they are essentially propogating the sytem they oppose. When you add the requirment of working two hours a week, that is economically the same as charging Whole Foods prices. The co-op represents a life boat for the elite and as such, they are doing nothing to counter the eventual demise that agri-business is creating. In my view, healthy eating is no longer a perk for the rich. It is unethical, in these current times to support stores like Walmart, Keyfood, Ralphs etc. And that goes for everyone. And if the co-op mentality stays the same, the same marginal percent of the population will continue eating ethically -- which will ensure the destruction of our health and ecosystems.
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  • ayresayres 1,452 Posts
    so what is the solution?

  • 99Problems99Problems 1,541 Posts

    I joined the local co-op here for 25 bucks. Volunteer stocking of food is optional.

    If more people joined, prices would go down too.

  • where do you live? is there more than one co-op? cause certainly not all of them have the same policy.
    the one here is a 1-time membership fee, you don't have to work/volunteer there.

  • DjArcadianDjArcadian 3,632 Posts
    I always found Trader Joes to be pretty reasonably priced.

  • Sun_FortuneSun_Fortune 1,374 Posts
    so what is the solution?

    I really have no clue -- Im trying to figure it out.
    This is such a boring problem and a problem thats so far away from most people's vision, as a majority of Americans now live in the cities, that I cant really see the people demanding change. Why would the people demand change if chicken is as cheap as it is?

    Im the furthest thing from someone who is knowledgable in this, so any of you geogrpahy and farm people should chime in.

  • the3rdstreamthe3rdstream 1,980 Posts

    Im not exactly sure what it is that a co-op is supposed to be, but from what I can tell they are trying to be a contemplative and humane alternative to agri-business. Their motto is the same as mine -- that it is unethical to support agri-business. But because they are an exclusive club and only those who have the time to work there can shop, they are essentially propogating the sytem they oppose. When you add the requirment of working two hours a week, that is economically the same as charging Whole Foods prices. The co-op represents a life boat for the elite and as such, they are doing nothing to counter the eventual demise that agri-business is creating.

    In my view, healthy eating is no longer a perk for the rich. It is unethical, in these current times to support stores like Walmart, Keyfood, Ralphs etc. And that goes for everyone. And if the co-op mentality stays the same, the same marginal percent of the population will continue eating ethically -- which will ensure the destruction of our health and ecosystems.

    this is a more well thought out post than the one you did last week, i agree with your thoughts, whole food and the like know who their markets are, rich folks and hippies (well rich hippies). fast food knows where thier markets are as well, that why they are more abundant in less well to do areas

    It is unethical, in these current times to support stores like Walmart, Keyfood, Ralphs etc.

    i never get into these walmart arguments cause i have never been in one except to return a camera someone got me as a gift, i am against the store for many reasons, the main one being the anti union shit, but lower income folks need to eat and i know they don't have the money for wholefoods, and it is funny to me the folks that i know personaly that get the most upset about walmart are people that shop at wholefoods

  • I always found Trader Joes to be pretty reasonably priced.

    I always thought that T-Joes niche was to be Whole Foods for those who couldn't afford Whole Foods. On dry goods, their prices are far more affordable than WF.

  • Sun_FortuneSun_Fortune 1,374 Posts
    I always found Trader Joes to be pretty reasonably priced.

    you're right, they're not bad, but they're usually pretty far from where most working people live.

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    There's a good-sized farmer's market right next to my office...

    You can get in-season vegetables as fresh and local as possible, usually cheaper than at the grocery...

    They also make jams, cider, house plants, etc

  • TheGoochTheGooch 541 Posts
    If you contact your local food co-op the majority of them do allow non members to purchase good there. For example the Flatbush food co-op is open to the publich although you wont recieve the discount available to volunteering members. Your right to question the price of the majority of the product but isn't your health and well being worth it. Although I also understand that this should be available to families of all income. Honestly I shop 4 x's a month and only 2 out of that 4 is the food coop. I really dont have the financial backing to by 5 dollar blue berries, or 5 dollar box of organic cereal. Most of the time we hit up little Chinatown in brooklyn and get our fresh veg, raw noodles, seaweed, tofu, etc and spend HALF of what we do at the food co-op and get double the amount of food.

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    i never get into these walmart arguments cause i have never been in one except to return a camera someone got me as a gift, i am against the store for many reasons, the main one being the anti union shit, but lower income folks need to eat and i know they don't have the money for wholefoods, and it is funny to me the folks that i know personaly that get the most upset about walmart are people that shop at wholefoods

    There's a whole lot of reasons I don't (often) shop at Whole Foods, but here's a real good one: they have the worst employee benefits of any company in the US other than Walmart

    I worked there for a longass time as a youngin, so I'm also a hatter cuz I have inside knowledge of how screwy they really are... its absolutely about those who are runnin thangs making the most $$$

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    in Toronto - one time loan (membership fee you get back once you leave) and volunteer time
    Karma Co-op Product Policy

    Karma Co-op

  • Sun_FortuneSun_Fortune 1,374 Posts

    i never get into these walmart arguments cause i have never been in one except to return a camera someone got me as a gift, i am against the store for many reasons, the main one being the anti union shit, but lower income folks need to eat and i know they don't have the money for wholefoods, and it is funny to me the folks that i know personaly that get the most upset about walmart are people that shop at wholefoods

    its sucha boring argument, but from Ive found, the problem with walmart is their "everyday low prices." To get those low prices they buy products from only the most destructive and cheapest farms. When its time to renew they're contracts, Walmart will say, "So and so is giving me this price for chicken. You have to give me a lower one or we wont do business." And becasue Walmart is such a force in the economy, that farm will have to resort to feeding their chickens more corn, cramming more into tiny cages and not participating in the cleanup of the surrounding areas or not investing in reasonable methods for disposing of the maneur to simply stay afloat.

  • ayresayres 1,452 Posts
    Most of the time we hit up little Chinatown in brooklyn and get our fresh veg, raw noodles, seaweed, tofu, etc and spend HALF of what we do at the food co-op and get double the amount of food.

    where is this at? sunset park?

  • Sun_FortuneSun_Fortune 1,374 Posts
    If you contact your local food co-op the majority of them do allow non members to purchase good there. For example the Flatbush food co-op is open to the publich although you wont recieve the discount available to volunteering members. Your right to question the price of the majority of the product but isn't your health and well being worth it. Although I also understand that this should be available to families of all income. Honestly I shop 4 x's a month and only 2 out of that 4 is the food coop. I really dont have the financial backing to by 5 dollar blue berries, or 5 dollar box of organic cereal. Most of the time we hit up little Chinatown in brooklyn and get our fresh veg, raw noodles, seaweed, tofu, etc and spend HALF of what we do at the food co-op and get double the amount of food.

    dude, thanks for the link. Im willing to spend a bit more for healthy and enviormentally sound food because Im young and can afford it -- I just worry that such a large percentage of country isnt able to. And then you have essentially the same structure as before with those who are able to pay the extra amount lving healtheir and longer lives. But what about the planet?

  • TheGoochTheGooch 541 Posts
    Most of the time we hit up little Chinatown in brooklyn and get our fresh veg, raw noodles, seaweed, tofu, etc and spend HALF of what we do at the food co-op and get double the amount of food.

    where is this at? sunset park?

    Theres 2 little china towns that ive discovered. Theres the one in sunset. The one on Ave. U that stretches only 3-4 blocks which is actually inexpensive and a nice fish selection. No record shops within miles though.

  • 99Problems99Problems 1,541 Posts

    Sun_fortune you can also look into community supported farms in your area.

    I bought a "farmshare" last year and got local organic vegetables every week (for 14 weeks) for about $15 a week. For additional money you could also get local bread, eggs and cheese weekly.

  • slushslush 691 Posts


    cool dude this is right by my apartment, i am always passing by curious. thanks

  • Sun_FortuneSun_Fortune 1,374 Posts

    Sun_fortune you can also look into community supported farms in your area.

    I bought a "farmshare" last year and got local organic vegetables every week (for 14 weeks) for about $15 a week. For additional money you could also get local bread, eggs and cheese weekly.

    Thats a great idea that Ill definately look into. Thanks.

  • ayresayres 1,452 Posts

    Theres 2 little china towns that ive discovered. Theres the one in sunset. The one on Ave. U that stretches only 3-4 blocks which is actually inexpensive and a nice fish selection. No record shops within miles though.

    Ave U and what cross streets? My wife likes to shop at the Korean spots in Queens but Avenue U is probably closer to us (we are in Park Slope)


  • nzshadownzshadow 5,518 Posts
    Sun fortune, the world needs more people like you (god knows your country does)

    I have been an advocate of eating from local producers, not eating processed food and taking responsibility for my consumer habits for a few years now.
    It is harder to do in some situations (cities vs. towns) but it is do-able. and not only are you helping the world be a better place, you are improving your quality of life.


  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    Access to food options and education about food choices are, unfortunately, not equally distributed among the population. Yao? Some people are going to be at an advantage due to their background (food education) and their buying power. Also, the distribution of food in this country is sickening. Go to a grocery in the ghetto... prices are higher there than in the suburbs and the food is substandard quality. The only thing you can really do is let people around you know that they have options (farmers markets, co-ops, ethnic markets like Sunset Park, etc.)

    Sure, no system is perfect (most co-ops have work requirements and they can be SLLOOWWW if you're in a hurry). But to me, co-ops don't seem to be the problem so much as overpriced faux-ops (whole foods, the wedge, etc.).

    Since joining a food co-op about four years ago, my food costs have gone down, the quality of food I get is waaay better than what I could get at a neighborhood grocery (it even sons WholePaycheckFoods), and working three hours a month (with work slot flexibility, parental leave, elderly and handicapped exemptions, etc.) is not so bad. Now, aggro hippies... they're another story.

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts

    Sun_fortune you can also look into community supported farms in your area.

    I bought a "farmshare" last year and got local organic vegetables every week (for 14 weeks) for about $15 a week. For additional money you could also get local bread, eggs and cheese weekly.

    I used to do this in MN. Shit was amazing, but I'm guessing that, like anything, quality and value vary. Ask around.

  • My friends moved to Maine to start http://www.morningdeworganic.com/index.html


    not sure where you live but it sounds like it'd be worth your time.

  • TheGoochTheGooch 541 Posts

    Theres 2 little china towns that ive discovered. Theres the one in sunset. The one on Ave. U that stretches only 3-4 blocks which is actually inexpensive and a nice fish selection. No record shops within miles though.

    Ave U and what cross streets? My wife likes to shop at the Korean spots in Queens but Avenue U is probably closer to us (we are in Park Slope)


    I would say its def. closer. Ave. U and I would say est 11 th - 15 th (if your on the Q line you can take the Q to Ave U) Its one of those huge oriental food markets. They have veggies, fruit, fish (some still swimming), tons of different noodles and sauces. oh and the real GINSENG behind the counter hehe. There are 2 very large markets so the prices are on point. Theres this little vietnamese restaurant thats worth hittin up if your there too.
    You can also check out that flatbush food co-op on Cortelyou Road. Theres also a farmers market in the schoolyard on cortelyou during the spring/summer. Just south of the park).

  • Sun_FortuneSun_Fortune 1,374 Posts
    Sun fortune, the world needs more people like you (god knows your country does)

    I have been an advocate of eating from local producers, not eating processed food and taking responsibility for my consumer habits for a few years now.
    It is harder to do in some situations (cities vs. towns) but it is do-able. and not only are you helping the world be a better place, you are improving your quality of life.


    thanks dude, but Im really not Mr. Joe EnvioroSensitive. I've been in the dark for such a long time now about this -- it was never something I really thought about in much depth until a few months ago, espcially since Ive lived my whole life in cities. It's one of those problems that seemed to appear out of nowhere. And a problem that seems to be entrenched and insoluble. I just hope that all those average, somewhat conscientious dudes out there like me, can start really appreciating the gravity of the problem.

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    I shop at trader Joes, and I think they are pretty competitive with your regular run of the mill grocery stores. It seems to be better food in most cases, although I question some of their packaged foods. Even so they are alot less expensive than Whole Foods.

    the co-op I never really understood, because when you have 50-70 hour work weeks plus family to attend to, it just isn't convenient. I think part of the issue is that if people are focusing on making money (which seems to be taking more hours to make the same amount your parents did), then they need a solution that is non-agro-business and is convenient.

    I think Trader Joes is a viable solution, but it needs work if it were to fill that need.

    And cosign on needing more education regarding food at botht he kid and parental stages. People need to understand what they are eating and the issues it can result in.

  • also, the co-op you went to might be a worker-owned co-op. i know the one in SF is. the more common co-ops are member-owned. one of the biggest differences is that you don't need to work or volenteer there in order to be a member. also, alot of member-owned co-ops will offer member refunds when sales are over a certain percentage. this might only mean a 50 dollar check in the mail once every few years, but the local supermart wouldn't do it.

    i work at the only co-op in texas and it doesn't work anything like the one you described. most co-ops in the nation are linked up though this org....

    NCGA

    you can find out where other co-ops are and whether they are member or worker owned and how their individual practices are.

    gabe

  • nzshadownzshadow 5,518 Posts
    thanks dude, but Im really not Mr. Joe EnvioroSensitive. I've been in the dark for such a long time now about this -- it was never something I really thought about in much depth until a few months ago, espcially since Ive lived my whole life in cities. It's one of those problems that seemed to appear out of nowhere. And a problem that seems to be entrenched and insoluble. I just hope that all those average, somewhat conscientious dudes out there like me, can start really appreciating the gravity of the problem.

    My point exactly, You not being Mr. Joe EnvioroSensitive makes this an even bigger deal. Bro i aint exactly a hippy myself, but a little effort goes a long way.
    And this problem did not appear out of nowhere, its just that you have not been informed, the reasons behind that are a whole 'nother thread.

  • Sun_FortuneSun_Fortune 1,374 Posts
    My friends moved to Maine to start http://www.morningdeworganic.com/index.html


    not sure where you live but it sounds like it'd be worth your time.

    you know Im actually saving up to do something like that. A friend of mine was left a large plot of land in Maine. he cacluated if he could get nine families to join, each would onyl have to pay about 50 thou. share in the food and energy production, take ourselves off the grid etc. And here's the best part: each person would only have to do about 4 hours of work a day! Walden 2 here I come. It just seems like a lifeboat thing and perhaps a bit too "rational."

    I think the future will have to have a network of "meta-industrial villages." City living is unsustainable and people are cut off from nature. I think too, that separating oneself off from a larger tribe of family members and friends is not the way to go. We are social people and living in nuclear families is not social.
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