This is a good point...which illustrates that many seem to get the concept of being a soldier confused with being a shithead.
A young man working against the odds and prepared to do whatever it takes to bring justice to himself and his family/community
A dude who decides to sell crack instead of getting 9-to-5 just so that he can buy his 500th pair of overpriced sneakers, 4 different grills, and 3 equally ridiculous tricked-out rides
What if your second example (getting paid, material goods and comforts that the establishment enjoys, etc) is someone???s idea of ???justice????
I didn't love the Jeezy album. It gets a lot of play in the areas I find myself in. There are a couple of tracks I really liked though.
I think that if conscious artists made better music the streets would embrace that too. Most folks I talk to are eager to hear challenging ideas, talk a lot about politics and/or spirituality, have a defined idea of God and how He works in their lives, yet the music they listen to doesn't always reflect that. But at the same time if you go to current reggae a lot of the cultural and religious records get as much play as the slack and the gun talk, maybe not in the same forums but you do hear it.
There is this idea: all the radio plays is this, all that sells is this... that's an idea that is based around white perception and white money and white buying power. IF you actually go to the Black neighborhoods you see a pretty wide variety of music and what white people take away from it is not 100% representative. That said, the records that the same white people prop up... basically "dorm-hop" gets no burn in the hood NOT because it's not positive but because it is namby pamby shit with really very little conviction. I always thought the name dorm-hop was fitting, not only because of the listenership but because of what the music represents: very little in the way of concrete ideas, the kind of stoned theorizing that college kids do when they have little real world experience to fuel real world ideas.
The same way that Black neighborhoods aren't all filled with pushers, pimps, and thugs - the music isn't all that either but you wouldn't know that if all you do is watch sales, listen to radio, or watch video channels because all of that media is controlled by and for white people.
Not trying to start up some 30 page argument, just calling it how I see it.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Say what you will, but noone's ever OD'd or gotten shot or gone to jail over me using a misleading byline.
my malicious jpegs sent three people to jail and one to the emergency room!
It's all a joke to you, we know.
Now everyone smoke crack with a gun to their head...except you of course, college boy.
What if you're the same asshole that you were 10 years ago? I liked drug dealing raps back when Scarface and Kool G Rap were debuting as artists. Do I have to stop now because crack rap is no longer only accessible through the underground?
Can't I be proud that Jeezy and Juelz somehow "snuck" whole songs about crack onto the homes of 13 year old white suburbanite females?
I mean, the hood already knows about crack, that's an old story. Oh my god!!! They actually said "nigga" in their lyrics too!!! What are these poor, misdirected black people going to do now?!! Are we now reacting because whites can be influenced by the same kind of rap that glorified drug culture since the beginning of the genre?
Jeezy's lyrics are entertainment first, and a far second, they might bear some minor incite into black culture. However, if the latter is what you are after, then why don't you pick up a book, watch the news or read the paper. There are plenty of black authors who have a hell of lot more incite and relevancy into Black Culture.
Why do you assume that Jeezy's fans view these sources of information as mutually exclusive?
Maybe people listen to Jeezy and watch the news.
And do you dispute that it is possible to convey certain truths through artistic expression that are not as easily reached through a news broadcast? Because if you do, I wonder what you are even doing on a record nerd discussion board.
You can be a fan of Jeezy without being a fan of what he raps about. That is what I am trying to say. If you live his lifestyle or grow up around it, then go ahead and praise his connection to the streets. But if you don't, then stop acting like Jeezy deserves a grammy because he speaks for a group of people that doesn't include you!
Trap or Die is not "the Biography of Malcolm X". There is no broad relevancy or incite to be gained from his raps, its not even informative (in a story-telling type way)...that is, unless you wanna know a lot about selling coke.
The same way that Black neighborhoods aren't all filled with pushers, pimps, and thugs - the music isn't all that either but you wouldn't know that if all you do is watch sales, listen to radio, or watch video channels because all of that media is controlled by and for white people.
word. very good points.
let's not forget that most of jeezy's audience is white and very disconnected from the streets, as are the people who package it and promote it.
thus his lyrics aren't as relevant as some of his fans want to believe. and actually he's more like a muppet working for the slavemaster. it doesn't take a genius to see that these people ain't real, "when we start the revolution, all they'll probly do is squeal"
Main Entry: in??cite[/b] Pronunciation: in-'sIt Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): in??cit??ed; in??cit??ing Etymology: Middle French inciter, from Latin incitare, from in- + citare to put in motion -- more at CITE : to move to action : stir up : spur on : urge on - in??cit??ant /-'sI-t&nt/ noun - in??cite??ment /-'sIt-m&nt/ noun - in??cit??er noun synonyms INCITE, INSTIGATE, ABET, FOMENT mean to spur to action. INCITE stresses a stirring up and urging on, and may or may not imply initiating . INSTIGATE definitely implies responsibility for initiating another's action and often connotes underhandedness or evil intention . ABET implies both assisting and encouraging . FOMENT implies persistence in goading .
VERSUS
Main Entry: in??sight[/b] Pronunciation: 'in-"sIt Function: noun 1 : the power or act of seeing into a situation : PENETRATION 2 : the act or result of apprehending the inner nature of things or of seeing intuitively synonym see DISCERNMENT
Next week, I'll teach you retarts that "retarted" is not...oh, never mind.
Jeezy's lyrics are entertainment first, and a far second, they might bear some minor incite into black culture. However, if the latter is what you are after, then why don't you pick up a book, watch the news or read the paper. There are plenty of black authors who have a hell of lot more incite and relevancy into Black Culture.
Why do you assume that Jeezy's fans view these sources of information as mutually exclusive?
Maybe people listen to Jeezy and watch the news.
And do you dispute that it is possible to convey certain truths through artistic expression that are not as easily reached through a news broadcast? Because if you do, I wonder what you are even doing on a record nerd discussion board.
You can be a fan of Jeezy without being a fan of what he raps about. That is what I am trying to say. If you live his lifestyle or grow up around it, then go ahead and praise his connection to the streets. But if you don't, then stop acting like Jeezy deserves a grammy because he speaks for a group of people that doesn't include you!
Trap or Die is not "the Biography of Malcolm X". There is no broad relevancy or incite to be gained from his raps, its not even informative (in a story-telling type way)...that is, unless you wanna know a lot about selling coke.
Not that I accept your contention that Jeezy only raps about selling coke, but who on this board likened his album to the Autobiography of Malcolm X? Or proclaimed themselves a fan not of Jeezy, but of crack selling?
let's not forget that most of jeezy's audience is white and very disconnected from the streets, as are the people who package it and promote it.
thus his lyrics aren't as relevant as some of his fans want to believe. and actually he's more like a muppet working for the slavemaster. it doesn't take a genius to see that these people ain't real, "when we start the revolution, all they'll probly do is squeal"
let's not forget that most of jeezy's audience is white and very disconnected from the streets, as are the people who package it and promote it.
thus his lyrics aren't as relevant as some of his fans want to believe. and actually he's more like a muppet working for the slavemaster. it doesn't take a genius to see that these people ain't real, "when we start the revolution, all they'll probly do is squeal"
let's not forget that most of jeezy's audience is white and very disconnected from the streets, as are the people who package it and promote it.
thus his lyrics aren't as relevant as some of his fans want to believe. and actually he's more like a muppet working for the slavemaster. it doesn't take a genius to see that these people ain't real, "when we start the revolution, all they'll probly do is squeal"
The arbiter of all that is real has spoken.
This schitt is beyond comedy.
Well, i don't know for sure but it seems like Blaz ignored the part of my post where I said that this stuff gets a lot of play in "the hood".
I think that if conscious artists made better music the streets would embrace that too. Most folks I talk to are eager to hear challenging ideas...
I guess that would depend on how you define "better". What NWA proved is that its easier to sell violence and this notion that the world is beyond the control of the individual, versus taking an active role in shaping the world around you. PE couldn't maintain their momentum because people get bored with the preachy end of hip-hop--if you engage the music you eventually have to make peace with the holes in your life (or at least acknowledge them).
I think that if conscious artists made better music the streets would embrace that too. Most folks I talk to are eager to hear challenging ideas...
I guess that would depend on how you define "better". What NWA proved is that its easier to sell violence and this notion that the world is beyond the control of the individual, versus taking an active role in shaping the world around you. PE couldn't maintain their momentum because people get bored with the preachy end of hip-hop--if you engage the music you eventually have to make peace with the holes in your life (or at least acknowledge them).
Not so with Young Jeezy.
I don't think "better" is a relative statement.
PE was "better" than pretty much any conscious artist you can name before or since. The reason they fell off was because they stopped making great music, not because people got tired of the schtick.
let's not forget that most of jeezy's audience is white and very disconnected from the streets, as are the people who package it and promote it.
thus his lyrics aren't as relevant as some of his fans want to believe. and actually he's more like a muppet working for the slavemaster. it doesn't take a genius to see that these people ain't real, "when we start the revolution, all they'll probly do is squeal"
The arbiter of all that is real has spoken.
This schitt is beyond comedy.
Well, i don't know for sure but it seems like Blaz ignored the part of my post where I said that this stuff gets a lot of play in "the hood".
It's just not ALL that's there...
I agreed with the substance of your post. I just think it's funny that Blaz used it as a springboard to start making proclamations about who is and isn't "real"...
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Hey,
I'll chime in on the discussion, if I may. I don't think people flocking to Black artists who espouse negativity is confined to White backpackers. Black folks do that shit everyday too. I just think the motive for doing so differs across racial lines. For Whites, I believe that clinging to those artists is a way for them to live dangerously and vicariously through the experiences of said artists transmitted from the CD. It's sort of how some White girls (especially those with redneck parents) are intrigued by (and fuck) brothas because its taboo. The irony is that (probably) few of these fans will REALLY want to deal with what the vocalized lifestyle entails (e.g., exposure to violence, incarceration, etc.). Plus, I think subconsciously a subset of Whites gets a hard-on for Blacks portraying themselves ignorantly as artists, giving these folks some feeling of superiority, and feeding on paternalistic notions of Blacks folks as less "civilized". The jigaboo act portrayed then serves to confirm these Whites' negative stereotypes of Blacks in general. These artists are more acceptable than those that defy such stereotypes (e.g., Common, KRS-ONE to an extent, anyway).
For Blacks, there seems to some legitimate identification with what the artist says through (a) actually living some of the experiences expressed, and/or (b) living the lifestyle portrayed by the artist vicariously, based on the listeners desire to live such a life themselves (e.g., wanting to be rich, take trips, etc. but can't). Either way, I think such artists serve a psychological need for both racial groups, which could explain why some of their members identify strongly with said artists.
I think people forgot that music is supposed to be judged by what it sounds like.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
What if you're the same asshole that you were 10 years ago? I liked drug dealing raps back when Scarface and Kool G Rap were debuting as artists. Do I have to stop now because crack rap is no longer only accessible through the underground?
Can't I be proud that Jeezy and Juelz somehow "snuck" whole songs about crack onto the homes of 13 year old white suburbanite females?
I mean, the hood already knows about crack, that's an old story. Oh my god!!! They actually said "nigga" in their lyrics too!!! What are these poor, misdirected black people going to do now?!! Are we now reacting because whites can be influenced by the same kind of rap that glorified drug culture since the beginning of the genre?
In a nutshell, I'm reacting to this shit getting to the point where a white college boy who's never even smoked a cocaine blunt thinks that it's funny to use a photo of Marion Barry smoking crack to help sell his rap records on eBay.
I mean, I listened to crack-rap 10 years ago too. And I still listen to it today. But I sure don't glorify such destructive behavior in and of itself like it's something to be admired.
What if you're the same asshole that you were 10 years ago? I liked drug dealing raps back when Scarface and Kool G Rap were debuting as artists. Do I have to stop now because crack rap is no longer only accessible through the underground?
Can't I be proud that Jeezy and Juelz somehow "snuck" whole songs about crack onto the homes of 13 year old white suburbanite females?
I mean, the hood already knows about crack, that's an old story. Oh my god!!! They actually said "nigga" in their lyrics too!!! What are these poor, misdirected black people going to do now?!! Are we now reacting because whites can be influenced by the same kind of rap that glorified drug culture since the beginning of the genre?
In a nutshell, I'm reacting to this shit getting to the point where a white college boy who's never even smoked a cocaine blunt thinks that it's funny to use a photo of Marion Barry smoking crack to help sell his rap records on eBay.
I mean, I listened to crack-rap 10 years ago too. And I still listen to it today. But I sure don't glorify such destructive behavior in and of itself like it's something to be admired.
So... you'd get off his funky worm if he were to smoke a cocaine blunt with you?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
What if you're the same asshole that you were 10 years ago? I liked drug dealing raps back when Scarface and Kool G Rap were debuting as artists. Do I have to stop now because crack rap is no longer only accessible through the underground?
Can't I be proud that Jeezy and Juelz somehow "snuck" whole songs about crack onto the homes of 13 year old white suburbanite females?
I mean, the hood already knows about crack, that's an old story. Oh my god!!! They actually said "nigga" in their lyrics too!!! What are these poor, misdirected black people going to do now?!! Are we now reacting because whites can be influenced by the same kind of rap that glorified drug culture since the beginning of the genre?
In a nutshell, I'm reacting to this shit getting to the point where a white college boy who's never even smoked a cocaine blunt thinks that it's funny to use a photo of Marion Barry smoking crack to help sell his rap records on eBay.
I mean, I listened to crack-rap 10 years ago too. And I still listen to it today. But I sure don't glorify such destructive behavior in and of itself like it's something to be admired.
So... you'd get off his funky worm if he were to smoke a cocaine blunt with you?
Comments
no. its the same white ken, he just refers to himself as 'shied
Justice is highly subjective.
Even though its only 9:30 in the morning here, I can already say that this is the funniest post of the day!
Touche'
But hey, if I learned a lesson 10 years ago...maybe it's some of y'all's turn to learn your own lesson today.
An admission?!!! Will the real Archaic please stand up!
Forget it--I will never have the "kGm" [Kareem Malik Green] monogram removed from my cuffs.
my malicious jpegs sent three people to jail and one to the emergency room!
I think that if conscious artists made better music the streets would embrace that too. Most folks I talk to are eager to hear challenging ideas, talk a lot about politics and/or spirituality, have a defined idea of God and how He works in their lives, yet the music they listen to doesn't always reflect that. But at the same time if you go to current reggae a lot of the cultural and religious records get as much play as the slack and the gun talk, maybe not in the same forums but you do hear it.
There is this idea: all the radio plays is this, all that sells is this... that's an idea that is based around white perception and white money and white buying power. IF you actually go to the Black neighborhoods you see a pretty wide variety of music and what white people take away from it is not 100% representative. That said, the records that the same white people prop up... basically "dorm-hop" gets no burn in the hood NOT because it's not positive but because it is namby pamby shit with really very little conviction. I always thought the name dorm-hop was fitting, not only because of the listenership but because of what the music represents: very little in the way of concrete ideas, the kind of stoned theorizing that college kids do when they have little real world experience to fuel real world ideas.
The same way that Black neighborhoods aren't all filled with pushers, pimps, and thugs - the music isn't all that either but you wouldn't know that if all you do is watch sales, listen to radio, or watch video channels because all of that media is controlled by and for white people.
Not trying to start up some 30 page argument, just calling it how I see it.
It's all a joke to you, we know.
Now everyone smoke crack with a gun to their head...except you of course, college boy.
Shit, my misleading byline threw someone in jail.
I liked drug dealing raps back when Scarface and Kool G Rap were debuting as artists. Do I have to stop now because crack rap is no longer only accessible through the underground?
Can't I be proud that Jeezy and Juelz somehow "snuck" whole songs about crack onto the homes of 13 year old white suburbanite females?
I mean, the hood already knows about crack, that's an old story. Oh my god!!! They actually said "nigga" in their lyrics too!!! What are these poor, misdirected black people going to do now?!! Are we now reacting because whites can be influenced by the same kind of rap that glorified drug culture since the beginning of the genre?
well, you are.
why you gotta speak negatively about a well educated white man? think about the young minds you are influencing negatively.
You can be a fan of Jeezy without being a fan of what he raps about. That is what I am trying to say. If you live his lifestyle or grow up around it, then go ahead and praise his connection to the streets. But if you don't, then stop acting like Jeezy deserves a grammy because he speaks for a group of people that doesn't include you!
Trap or Die is not "the Biography of Malcolm X". There is no broad relevancy or incite to be gained from his raps, its not even informative (in a story-telling type way)...that is, unless you wanna know a lot about selling coke.
word. very good points.
let's not forget that most of jeezy's audience is white and very disconnected from the streets, as are the people who package it and promote it.
thus his lyrics aren't as relevant as some of his fans want to believe. and actually he's more like a muppet working for the slavemaster.
it doesn't take a genius to see that these people ain't real,
"when we start the revolution, all they'll probly do is squeal"
Main Entry: in??cite[/b]
Pronunciation: in-'sIt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): in??cit??ed; in??cit??ing
Etymology: Middle French inciter, from Latin incitare, from in- + citare to put in motion -- more at CITE
: to move to action : stir up : spur on : urge on
- in??cit??ant /-'sI-t&nt/ noun
- in??cite??ment /-'sIt-m&nt/ noun
- in??cit??er noun
synonyms INCITE, INSTIGATE, ABET, FOMENT mean to spur to action. INCITE stresses a stirring up and urging on, and may or may not imply initiating . INSTIGATE definitely implies responsibility for initiating another's action and often connotes underhandedness or evil intention . ABET implies both assisting and encouraging . FOMENT implies persistence in goading .
VERSUS
Main Entry: in??sight[/b]
Pronunciation: 'in-"sIt
Function: noun
1 : the power or act of seeing into a situation : PENETRATION
2 : the act or result of apprehending the inner nature of things or of seeing intuitively
synonym see DISCERNMENT
Next week, I'll teach you retarts that "retarted" is not...oh, never mind.
Not that I accept your contention that Jeezy only raps about selling coke, but who on this board likened his album to the Autobiography of Malcolm X? Or proclaimed themselves a fan not of Jeezy, but of crack selling?
The arbiter of all that is real has spoken.
This schitt is beyond comedy.
One more thing:
"word"
Well, i don't know for sure but it seems like Blaz ignored the part of my post where I said that this stuff gets a lot of play in "the hood".
It's just not ALL that's there...
I guess that would depend on how you define "better". What NWA proved is that its easier to sell violence and this notion that the world is beyond the control of the individual, versus taking an active role in shaping the world around you. PE couldn't maintain their momentum because people get bored with the preachy end of hip-hop--if you engage the music you eventually have to make peace with the holes in your life (or at least acknowledge them).
Not so with Young Jeezy.
I don't think "better" is a relative statement.
PE was "better" than pretty much any conscious artist you can name before or since. The reason they fell off was because they stopped making great music, not because people got tired of the schtick.
I agreed with the substance of your post. I just think it's funny that Blaz used it as a springboard to start making proclamations about who is and isn't "real"...
I'll chime in on the discussion, if I may. I don't think people flocking to Black artists who espouse negativity is confined to White backpackers. Black folks do that shit everyday too. I just think the motive for doing so differs across racial lines. For Whites, I believe that clinging to those artists is a way for them to live dangerously and vicariously through the experiences of said artists transmitted from the CD. It's sort of how some White girls (especially those with redneck parents) are intrigued by (and fuck) brothas because its taboo. The irony is that (probably) few of these fans will REALLY want to deal with what the vocalized lifestyle entails (e.g., exposure to violence, incarceration, etc.). Plus, I think subconsciously a subset of Whites gets a hard-on for Blacks portraying themselves ignorantly as artists, giving these folks some feeling of superiority, and feeding on paternalistic notions of Blacks folks as less "civilized". The jigaboo act portrayed then serves to confirm these Whites' negative stereotypes of Blacks in general. These artists are more acceptable than those that defy such stereotypes (e.g., Common, KRS-ONE to an extent, anyway).
For Blacks, there seems to some legitimate identification with what the artist says through (a) actually living some of the experiences expressed, and/or (b) living the lifestyle portrayed by the artist vicariously, based on the listeners desire to live such a life themselves (e.g., wanting to be rich, take trips, etc. but can't). Either way, I think such artists serve a psychological need for both racial groups, which could explain why some of their members identify strongly with said artists.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
In a nutshell, I'm reacting to this shit getting to the point where a white college boy who's never even smoked a cocaine blunt thinks that it's funny to use a photo of Marion Barry smoking crack to help sell his rap records on eBay.
I mean, I listened to crack-rap 10 years ago too. And I still listen to it today. But I sure don't glorify such destructive behavior in and of itself like it's something to be admired.
So... you'd get off his funky worm if he were to smoke a cocaine blunt with you?
Why do you give a fuck?