Regardless of my opinion of the striking MTA workers I know that Al Quaeda would give their left nut(and at least a few of their lives) to be able to shut down a city like NY to this degree.
So the strikers are like Al Quaeda now?
If that's what you got from my post.....I'm speechless.
You need to go back and re-read your shit and explain to us what the fuck you were trying to say then.
I thought it was pretty obvious.....the end result of the strike, gridlock and economic mayhem is something Al Quaeda can only dream about doing to a city the size of NY..
Just like when they released the statement praising Allah for the Hurricane in N.O. No one thought Katrina was like Al Quaeda.
Just like when they released the statement praising Allah for the Hurricane in N.O. No one thought Katrina was like Al Quaeda.
Yeah, Katrina was worse since we pretty much screwed ourselves over there. Can't blame that shit on terrorists, just incompetence.
And Rock - your previous statement really made it seem like you were saying the striker's action was comporable to a terrorist attack - not intent, but effect.
In any case, shutting down NY transit would be pretty easy: just blow up one bus and one train (see London) and that'd be enough to paralyze the city for a few days, at least.
Yeah man, there's a big world outside of the NJ office park...
Man, for someone who hasn't been living in NYC all that long, you're definitely heaping on the hateration for the garden state. Granted, it ain't hipsterville but neither are PLENTY of parts of NYC...when's the last time you had a beer in the upper east side? I gotta 800+ sq foot loft and pay super stupid rent so all ya NYC headz in your 2G a month studio apartment can suck these jersey tomatos.
As for the strike, yeah, I'm sure its not ideal. But look what has happened to labor in this country...its completely dissappeared. Remember Reagan and the air traffic controllers? Motherfuckers have been fucked over royally. Yeah the MTA workers get a decent wage, but why do you think that is? Cos they can fight for it.
The bosses dictate wages. Benefits. They can lower them, raise them, take away shit, etc. They can do a lot. What is the only real power the workers have? Either to work, or not. That is their main bargaining power. Do you think the MTA management is going to give in if they ask nicely?
The MTA had a billion dollar surplus last year. A BILLION. And now they can't give them a raise that even covers the cost of living increases per year?
I was listening to Gary Byrd (yes mr. Soul Travelin' himself) on WLIB late night. 1190am. Air America during the day and then he does midnight-5am weeknights. He known much more as a broadcaster these days, and his voice still sounds exactly the same. Not always in agreement with his guests (the numerology steez is a bit of a stretch) but he has a lot of intelligent black voices on the air. The last couple of shows (mon/tues) were obviously devoted to the strike and taking calls on what people think of them, you might want to check that out, you'll hear a lot of shit that isn't being mentioned in the news.
I don't watch TV, but was checking the 1010wins site for some traffic info, and read their story. 1010wins is a traffic/weather channel, supposedly neutral but they have more than a lil' right edge. (i.e. every story about a 'rapper' involves guns and arrests as opposed to the music they produce, NY Post style). Anyways getting to the strike story, the head quote is bloomberg talking about them having 'no respect for the law'. (If the law states that you can't strike, and that's the only power you have as workers, what do you expect people to do if they're not satisfied?!) One quote from toussaint and then many many quotes from people complaining, what they have to do to get to work, how much money they're losing, etc. There isn't one mention of budget surplus from last year, etc. The news is skewed, and I don't expect it any different on TV.
And whoever said that who gives a fuck if bloomberg walks over the bridge, , serious cosign. At first I didn't hate on bloomberg because ghouliani was such an obvious fascist fuck, but fuck mr. stock news as well. Dude is a corporatist and remember he welkommened the replubican convention with open arms.
Anyways I'm sure it sucks but I have to side with the strikers. You don't see an excerise of real power from common folks very often these days.
If the MTA didn't have a union that shit would have been privatized years ago. I'm pretty sure anyone can guarentee that MTA workers would be getting no where near what they are now if they were private. Period.
Many people seem to be bitching and whining about how much they make and their benefits. Of course this strike is not going to be popular, but it's more than just a strike. From what I've read a whole bunch of public sector union contracts are going to be up soon for re-negotiation. They are trying to make an example out of MTA.
The same shit is happening in Canada with our radio, with our telecommunications industry, with everything. Union busting is top priority these days.
PS - Glad to see some people support this strike. When I joined this board I didn't know where it would lie politically.
PPS - I don't see how someone could have mistaken Rock's comments, they were pretty obvious.
$mall Change, I've lived in NYC since 1995. I've lived all over the city, in all four boroughs excluding staten island. I have family and close friends from New Jersey so don't get twisted, I've got love... but as far as this argument goes, I have a hard time listening to someone who is not actually on the streets out here, talking to people, and instead getting their news from the internet and judging it from a reality-removed viewpoint. Either way though. I like you and Larry both, we just happen to disagree here.
I am sitting in my store after having caught a cab from Kensington to Fulton Mall area and walking from there. Work gotta get done. But I'm not down with leaders of either side of this playing chicken with the people of New York City man, that shit is just beyond foul to me.
The same shit is happening in Canada with our radio, with our telecommunications industry, with everything. Union busting is top priority these days.
SERIOUSLY!/?! canada? what do you know about this at all? watch from afar, but please do not offer up your opinion unless you have to jump through hoops to get to work here. You are seriously misinformed and i'm sick of people who aint in this, trying to holler union.
first off,,, that billion dollar surplus was to be used to pay off existing pensions.
second... the average MTA employee makes 50k a year, the average new yorker makes 40k.
third... they turned down a 10.5% pay increase
i'm not against a union, but this is an abuse of power. some of yall who dont live here need to keep you damn mouths shut. firme la bouche!
first off,,, that billion dollar surplus was to be used to pay off existing pensions.
second... the average MTA employee makes 50k a year, the average new yorker makes 40k.
third... they turned down a 10.5% pay increase
Since this is a "Service Industry" that the city runs and is dependent on it would not "go out of business" if they ran a deficit instead of a surplus. How do you think the workers would feel about kicking back some of their salary if the billion dollars was a deficit instead of a "surplus".
And if it's true that the "surplus" was going to pay future pensions then it seems like the union wants to "double dip" on this $$$
How many times, including back when NYC was "Bankrupt" has the Transit System been bailed out without diminishing anyone's pay.
Unions were one of the most important tools in our Country's history and served a great purpose when they were first created.
My experience with unions is limited to the Construction Unions in NYC(Dad, Granddad, uncles and cousins all in Electricians Union Local 3)and I can tell you that beginning in the 50's many of these unions were taken over by and run by organized crime. Many years of racial inequality in their hiring, payoffs and graft, price gouging and fronts for criminal activity.
My family and I benefitted from these unions, but make no mistake, many of them have a very dark side.
I do think unions still play a positive role in many trades and businesses. But if your attitude is Union Good/Employer Bad.....you really need to step back and re-evaluate.
My family and I benefitted from these unions, but make no mistake, many of them have a very dark side.
I do think unions still play a positive role in many trades and businesses. But if your attitude is Union Good/Employer Bad.....you really need to step back and re-evaluate.
We've got a lot of budding Al D'Amatos on this board.
If you support the MTA vs the TWU, you are either
a) neoliberal freemarket capitalist b) libertarian c) nihilist d) fascist e) apolitical/single-issue voter/it's all about me really
My family and I benefitted from these unions, but make no mistake, many of them have a very dark side.
I do think unions still play a positive role in many trades and businesses. But if your attitude is Union Good/Employer Bad.....you really need to step back and re-evaluate.
We've got a lot of budding Al D'Amatos on this board.
If you support the MTA vs the TWU, you are either
a) neoliberal freemarket capitalist b) libertarian c) nihilist d) fascist e) apolitical/single-issue voter/it's all about me really
And if you think across the board that Unions are all good and Employers are all evil you are either.
A) A Moron B) An Ignorant Moron C) A Narrow Minded Ignorant Moron D) A Union Delegate E) An Unemployed Non-Union Member
P.S....No where in my post did I say who I did or didn't support....just trying to look at the issue from every side possible.
PSS....If you make me choose one I'll be B) Liberterian - Defined by Webster's as "One who upholds the principles of absolute and unrestricted Liberty"
My family and I benefitted from these unions, but make no mistake, many of them have a very dark side.
I do think unions still play a positive role in many trades and businesses. But if your attitude is Union Good/Employer Bad.....you really need to step back and re-evaluate.
We've got a lot of budding Al D'Amatos on this board.
If you support the MTA vs the TWU, you are either
a) neoliberal freemarket capitalist
b) libertarian
c) nihilist
d) fascist
e) apolitical/single-issue voter/it's all about me really
I don't think ur correct on that... From my view, the MTA is atleast willing to deal. The International heads of the Union are not happy with the local and think they should have taken the last offer... That should tell people something. But hey... All corporations are all evil...
I just rode my bike from Carroll Gardens in Brooklyn to Midtown. It wasn't so bad but I'm definitely not looking forward to the ride home. Shit's like 10 miles each way.
i got from mulberry street to 51'st in under 1 hour. I would gladly do it every day before I would let those fat fucks working for the MTA get a 10% raise and a retirement at age 55 with a penison.
Also, my effing final exam has now been moved to after the holidays because of these shennanigans.
i got from mulberry street to 51'st in under 1 hour. I would gladly do it every day before I would let those fat fucks working for the MTA get a 10% raise and a retirement at age 55 with a penison.
i got from mulberry street to 51'st in under 1 hour. I would gladly do it every day before I would let those fat fucks working for the MTA get a 10% raise and a retirement at age 55 with a penison.
i got from mulberry street to 51'st in under 1 hour. I would gladly do it every day before I would let those fat fucks working for the MTA get a 10% raise and a retirement at age 55 with a penison.
Charming
You sound poor.
When are we going to get a graemlin for this already?
i got from mulberry street to 51'st in under 1 hour. I would gladly do it every day before I would let those fat fucks working for the MTA get a 10% raise and a retirement at age 55 with a penison.
Charming
You sound poor.
When are we going to get a graemlin for this already?
i got from mulberry street to 51'st in under 1 hour. I would gladly do it every day before I would let those fat fucks working for the MTA get a 10% raise and a retirement at age 55 with a penison.
$mall Change, I've lived in NYC since 1995. I've lived all over the city, in all four boroughs excluding staten island. I have family and close friends from New Jersey so don't get twisted, I've got love... but as far as this argument goes, I have a hard time listening to someone who is not actually on the streets out here, talking to people, and instead getting their news from the internet and judging it from a reality-removed viewpoint. Either way though. I like you and Larry both, we just happen to disagree here.
werd. I thought you moved here when you opened the store. My bad.
I think a lot of people are making good points. Its a complicated situation, especially if you're just talking about this particular strike. And yes there's been plenty of corruption in unions. But if wasn't for the labor movements around the turn of the century things would be way, way, way worse in this country. Just look towards 3rd world sweatshop labor and you can see what was happening in this cuntry 100 years ago or more. I highly suggest checking 'A People's History of the United States' by Howard Zinn. Its a thick one, so if you don't want to tackle it in one shot, skip forward to the chapters on the I.W.W. (the 'wobblies') and check out what motherfuckers went thru just to get a 8 hour workday, a minimum wage, safe work environments, and child labor laws. You think shit is hardcore? Those motherfuckers lived it.
And the thing that really pisses me off is how the Right is trying to lead us back to the 1800's, with institutions like Walmart, etc. The workers need rights, they need to be respected, and lets face it, management is not going to do SHIT unless they have to. With shit like Walmart, they keep many employees on some 28 hour work week so they'll never get benefits, or companies like MTV have 'permanent freelance' positions, again for the same reason. Permanent Freelance. What kind of a fucking twisted term is that?
Anyways, I'm sorry for all the Nueva Yorkers that are fucked. Its complicated. I'm more talking about how labor has been fucked over, in general.
Fuck this whole shit man. Nobody's willing to compromise. The world revolves around intelligent compromises. Fuck what you think. It's not strike or walmart. I don't support either side in and of themselves; I support things working.
If I were running the MTA I would not want to make compromises that were counter to my business goals. If I were a transit worker I would want the best deal I could possibly get. But, at the end of the day, good business stewardship is not being exploitative of your workers, it is maximizing productivity while still being fair and rewarding the workers. And at the end of the day, as a worker, you have to compromise - whether that's not getting your way on a particular piece of work or it's doing something you might not want to do - for the betterment of the business and your further success within it.
From what I see on here, there are a lot of people who don't see a need to compromise in business. That is not, to me, a recipe for success. It is respectable to live life without compromise; but it is often times not the best business decision. If this goes on for 10 days, and the national guard gets involved, and transit workers get fired, they will have no one to blame but themselves for not taking the best deal when it was on the table.
There is a lot of bla bla in this whole deal and I wish the media, the union, the MTA, the mayor and the governor would all cut the shit. But to blindly display allegiance to one or the other party, when both are fundamentally fucked, is not to me a well-reasoned stance.
The $1 weekend metrocard discount that we didn't ask for could have gone towards meeting union demands, instead it was a purely political token gesture by Bloomberg and Pataki, both with their eyes on bigger prizes.
Labor has one capital asset: its own labor. Persecuting organised labor for being organised is immoral, on a much more fundamental level than arguments over whether or not the union is holding NYC to ransom or whether this is in effect backdoor privatisation.
If there were no unions (as the neolibs want) we would not be talking about hourly wage, salary, healthcare, etc. we would instead be talking about piece rates. The Nike-in-Asia model is where the friendly capitalists want to take this. That is established precedent.
Drip, drip. This is only the begining. The frog in boiling water analogy is apt.
The same shit is happening in Canada with our radio, with our telecommunications industry, with everything. Union busting is top priority these days.
SERIOUSLY!/?! canada? what do you know about this at all? watch from afar, but please do not offer up your opinion unless you have to jump through hoops to get to work here. You are seriously misinformed and i'm sick of people who aint in this, trying to holler union.
In Canada, specifically in BC, the Teacher's went on strike over similar grounds. They were legislated back to work and the strike was deemed illegal. Many people were not happy.
One of many reasons they went on strike was to view their situation in the bigger picture. The government was trying to break the Union in preparation for the mulitiple labour contracts about to end.
This is a similar situation in NY. There are contracts that are going to end soon, and if the government can show that the workers are not in a position to bargain by breaking the MTA strike, then they will get preferential labour contracts, and these will not benefit the workers.
I'm not saying this is the only reason, but if you read what the other unions have been saying, which back this strike whole heartedly[/b], it gives you an idea that this may be more important that just the economical gains. It may have entered the ideological realm.
From what I see on here, there are a lot of people who don't see a need to compromise in business. That is not, to me, a recipe for success. It is respectable to live life without compromise; but it is often times not the best business decision.
I am going with Johnny on this point, and in general. Except that I would go so far as to say it is IMPOSSIBLE to live life successfully without compromise. It can't be done and should never be a goal.
From what I see on here, there are a lot of people who don't see a need to compromise in business. That is not, to me, a recipe for success. It is respectable to live life without compromise; but it is often times not the best business decision.
I am going with Johnny on this point, and in general. Except that I would go so far as to say it is IMPOSSIBLE to live life successfully without compromise. It can't be done and should never be a goal.
When did this thread turn into a forum for life lessons? This is where it gets patronizing.
We can talk all day about our individual lifestyles, but it gets society nowhere. How long has Oprah been on TV?
The strike is part of a much bigger issue, which is slowly playing out in NYC, South America, China, and countless other places around the world where wealth is being concentrated like never before. Working people are basically funding the biggest global privatisation push since the days of kings, explorers, merchants and pirates, aka privateers. Look at the statistics, and there is a global pattern since the late 70s.
From what I see on here, there are a lot of people who don't see a need to compromise in business. That is not, to me, a recipe for success. It is respectable to live life without compromise; but it is often times not the best business decision.
I am going with Johnny on this point, and in general. Except that I would go so far as to say it is IMPOSSIBLE to live life successfully without compromise. It can't be done and should never be a goal.
When did this thread turn into a forum for life lessons? This is where it gets patronizing.
We can talk all day about our individual lifestyles, but it gets society nowhere. How long has Oprah been on TV?
The strike is part of a much bigger issue, which is slowly playing out in NYC, South America, China, and countless other places around the world where wealth is being concentrated like never before. Working people are basically funding the biggest global privatisation push since the days of kings, explorers, merchants and pirates, aka privateers. Look at the statistics, and there is a global pattern since the late 70s.
Ok, but since when does has the NY Transit workers Union been responsible for fighting all these bigger issues?
Sorry, I feel for all you guys caught in the middle of this, both the Transit Workers, most of whom probably just hope that the Union is doing right by them, and can't wait to end this, and the commuters who just want a train/bus that runs. From what I have read(and granted, I don't know all sides) it seems like the negotiations should have led somewhere and that the Union took the heavy option a bit prematurely. This is strictly my opinion on what I am interpreting from the news about THIS SITUATION.
I will let the rest of you solve the issues of global privatization. Carry on.
I now live in Texas There are very few union jobs here....I believe they call it a "Right To Work" state.
A teacher with 5 years experience gets paid less here than a starting NYC Transit System Token Booth worker.
The home I bought here last year for less than $200K would be about $1.5 mil. in NY. My car insurance is 1/3rd of what it would be in NY and we have no state tax.
My property and school tax are about 1/4th of my parent's who live in Nassau County, LI. All kids starting in middle school get free laptops in both of the school districts I've lived in.
We have a Transit System that has lost money every year since it began.
My father is constantly bragging that his monthly income from Local 3 union in retirement is higher than when he was working. I'm very happy about this.
The NY economic situation is a viscious cycle.....higher wages = higher cost of goods = need for higher wages.....and yes, the unions have "something" to do with that cycle by demanding and fighting for higher wages for their workers. I'm not saying that's good/bad or indifferent....just a fact.
It's a chicken/egg scenario that I find fairly ironic.
What other explanation is there for such a blatant cost of living discrepency within the same country??
Comments
Here's one, and it's on topic too!
"This is two guys arguing over who's got the bigger dick, and New York City is like a big pussy that's getting fucked."
I thought it was pretty obvious.....the end result of the strike, gridlock and economic mayhem is something Al Quaeda can only dream about doing to a city the size of NY..
Just like when they released the statement praising Allah for the Hurricane in N.O. No one thought Katrina was like Al Quaeda.
Yeah, Katrina was worse since we pretty much screwed ourselves over there. Can't blame that shit on terrorists, just incompetence.
And Rock - your previous statement really made it seem like you were saying the striker's action was comporable to a terrorist attack - not intent, but effect.
In any case, shutting down NY transit would be pretty easy: just blow up one bus and one train (see London) and that'd be enough to paralyze the city for a few days, at least.
Man, for someone who hasn't been living in NYC all that long, you're definitely heaping on the hateration for the garden state. Granted, it ain't hipsterville but neither are PLENTY of parts of NYC...when's the last time you had a beer in the upper east side? I gotta 800+ sq foot loft and pay super stupid rent so all ya NYC headz in your 2G a month studio apartment can suck these jersey tomatos.
As for the strike, yeah, I'm sure its not ideal. But look what has happened to labor in this country...its completely dissappeared. Remember Reagan and the air traffic controllers? Motherfuckers have been fucked over royally. Yeah the MTA workers get a decent wage, but why do you think that is? Cos they can fight for it.
The bosses dictate wages. Benefits. They can lower them, raise them, take away shit, etc. They can do a lot. What is the only real power the workers have? Either to work, or not. That is their main bargaining power. Do you think the MTA management is going to give in if they ask nicely?
The MTA had a billion dollar surplus last year. A BILLION.
I was listening to Gary Byrd (yes mr. Soul Travelin' himself) on WLIB late night. 1190am. Air America during the day and then he does midnight-5am weeknights. He known much more as a broadcaster these days, and his voice still sounds exactly the same. Not always in agreement with his guests (the numerology steez is a bit of a stretch) but he has a lot of intelligent black voices on the air. The last couple of shows (mon/tues) were obviously devoted to the strike and taking calls on what people think of them, you might want to check that out, you'll hear a lot of shit that isn't being mentioned in the news.
I don't watch TV, but was checking the 1010wins site for some traffic info, and read their story. 1010wins is a traffic/weather channel, supposedly neutral but they have more than a lil' right edge. (i.e. every story about a 'rapper' involves guns and arrests as opposed to the music they produce, NY Post style). Anyways getting to the strike story, the head quote is bloomberg talking about them having 'no respect for the law'. (If the law states that you can't strike, and that's the only power you have as workers, what do you expect people to do if they're not satisfied?!) One quote from toussaint and then many many quotes from people complaining, what they have to do to get to work, how much money they're losing, etc. There isn't one mention of budget surplus from last year, etc. The news is skewed, and I don't expect it any different on TV.
And whoever said that who gives a fuck if bloomberg walks over the bridge,
Anyways I'm sure it sucks but I have to side with the strikers. You don't see an excerise of real power from common folks very often these days.
$??
Many people seem to be bitching and whining about how much they make and their benefits. Of course this strike is not going to be popular, but it's more than just a strike. From what I've read a whole bunch of public sector union contracts are going to be up soon for re-negotiation. They are trying to make an example out of MTA.
The same shit is happening in Canada with our radio, with our telecommunications industry, with everything. Union busting is top priority these days.
PS - Glad to see some people support this strike. When I joined this board I didn't know where it would lie politically.
PPS - I don't see how someone could have mistaken Rock's comments, they were pretty obvious.
I am sitting in my store after having caught a cab from Kensington to Fulton Mall area and walking from there. Work gotta get done. But I'm not down with leaders of either side of this playing chicken with the people of New York City man, that shit is just beyond foul to me.
Peace,
Payczech
SERIOUSLY!/?! canada? what do you know about this at all? watch from afar, but please do not offer up your opinion unless you have to jump through hoops to get to work here. You are seriously misinformed and i'm sick of people who aint in this, trying to holler union.
first off,,, that billion dollar surplus was to be used to pay off existing pensions.
second... the average MTA employee makes 50k a year, the average new yorker makes 40k.
third... they turned down a 10.5% pay increase
i'm not against a union, but this is an abuse of power. some of yall who dont live here need to keep you damn mouths shut. firme la bouche!
Since this is a "Service Industry" that the city runs and is dependent on it would not "go out of business" if they ran a deficit instead of a surplus. How do you think the workers would feel about kicking back some of their salary if the billion dollars was a deficit instead of a "surplus".
And if it's true that the "surplus" was going to pay future pensions then it seems like the union wants to "double dip" on this $$$
How many times, including back when NYC was "Bankrupt" has the Transit System been bailed out without diminishing anyone's pay.
Unions were one of the most important tools in our Country's history and served a great purpose when they were first created.
My experience with unions is limited to the Construction Unions in NYC(Dad, Granddad, uncles and cousins all in Electricians Union Local 3)and I can tell you that beginning in the 50's many of these unions were taken over by and run by organized crime. Many years of racial inequality in their hiring, payoffs and graft, price gouging and fronts for criminal activity.
My family and I benefitted from these unions, but make no mistake, many of them have a very dark side.
I do think unions still play a positive role in many trades and businesses. But if your attitude is Union Good/Employer Bad.....you really need to step back and re-evaluate.
We've got a lot of budding Al D'Amatos on this board.
If you support the MTA vs the TWU, you are either
a) neoliberal freemarket capitalist
b) libertarian
c) nihilist
d) fascist
e) apolitical/single-issue voter/it's all about me really
Context, Jonny. Context.
And for the record, I back Toussaint and the TWU.
And if you think across the board that Unions are all good and Employers are all evil you are either.
A) A Moron
B) An Ignorant Moron
C) A Narrow Minded Ignorant Moron
D) A Union Delegate
E) An Unemployed Non-Union Member
P.S....No where in my post did I say who I did or didn't support....just trying to look at the issue from every side possible.
PSS....If you make me choose one I'll be B) Liberterian - Defined by Webster's as "One who upholds the principles of absolute and unrestricted Liberty"
I don't think ur correct on that... From my view, the MTA is atleast willing to deal. The International heads of the Union are not happy with the local and think they should have taken the last offer... That should tell people something. But hey... All corporations are all evil...
Also, my effing final exam has now been moved to after the holidays because of these shennanigans.
Charming
You sound poor.
When are we going to get a graemlin for this already?
You mean the "You, sir, are a dick." graemlin?
I was just thinking that....
werd. I thought you moved here when you opened the store. My bad.
I think a lot of people are making good points. Its a complicated situation, especially if you're just talking about this particular strike. And yes there's been plenty of corruption in unions. But if wasn't for the labor movements around the turn of the century things would be way, way, way worse in this country. Just look towards 3rd world sweatshop labor and you can see what was happening in this cuntry 100 years ago or more. I highly suggest checking 'A People's History of the United States' by Howard Zinn. Its a thick one, so if you don't want to tackle it in one shot, skip forward to the chapters on the I.W.W. (the 'wobblies') and check out what motherfuckers went thru just to get a 8 hour workday, a minimum wage, safe work environments, and child labor laws. You think shit is hardcore? Those motherfuckers lived it.
And the thing that really pisses me off is how the Right is trying to lead us back to the 1800's, with institutions like Walmart, etc. The workers need rights, they need to be respected, and lets face it, management is not going to do SHIT unless they have to. With shit like Walmart, they keep many employees on some 28 hour work week so they'll never get benefits, or companies like MTV have 'permanent freelance' positions, again for the same reason. Permanent Freelance. What kind of a fucking twisted term is that?
Anyways, I'm sorry for all the Nueva Yorkers that are fucked. Its complicated. I'm more talking about how labor has been fucked over, in general.
$?? aka a guy with a car and a night job
If I were running the MTA I would not want to make compromises that were counter to my business goals. If I were a transit worker I would want the best deal I could possibly get. But, at the end of the day, good business stewardship is not being exploitative of your workers, it is maximizing productivity while still being fair and rewarding the workers. And at the end of the day, as a worker, you have to compromise - whether that's not getting your way on a particular piece of work or it's doing something you might not want to do - for the betterment of the business and your further success within it.
From what I see on here, there are a lot of people who don't see a need to compromise in business. That is not, to me, a recipe for success. It is respectable to live life without compromise; but it is often times not the best business decision. If this goes on for 10 days, and the national guard gets involved, and transit workers get fired, they will have no one to blame but themselves for not taking the best deal when it was on the table.
There is a lot of bla bla in this whole deal and I wish the media, the union, the MTA, the mayor and the governor would all cut the shit. But to blindly display allegiance to one or the other party, when both are fundamentally fucked, is not to me a well-reasoned stance.
Labor has one capital asset: its own labor. Persecuting organised labor for being organised is immoral, on a much more fundamental level than arguments over whether or not the union is holding NYC to ransom or whether this is in effect backdoor privatisation.
If there were no unions (as the neolibs want) we would not be talking about hourly wage, salary, healthcare, etc. we would instead be talking about piece rates. The Nike-in-Asia model is where the friendly capitalists want to take this. That is established precedent.
Drip, drip. This is only the begining. The frog in boiling water analogy is apt.
One of many reasons they went on strike was to view their situation in the bigger picture. The government was trying to break the Union in preparation for the mulitiple labour contracts about to end.
This is a similar situation in NY. There are contracts that are going to end soon, and if the government can show that the workers are not in a position to bargain by breaking the MTA strike, then they will get preferential labour contracts, and these will not benefit the workers.
I'm not saying this is the only reason, but if you read what the other unions have been saying, which back this strike whole heartedly[/b], it gives you an idea that this may be more important that just the economical gains. It may have entered the ideological realm.
I am going with Johnny on this point, and in general. Except that I would go so far as to say it is IMPOSSIBLE to live life successfully without compromise. It can't be done and should never be a goal.
When did this thread turn into a forum for life lessons? This is where it gets patronizing.
We can talk all day about our individual lifestyles, but it gets society nowhere. How long has Oprah been on TV?
The strike is part of a much bigger issue, which is slowly playing out in NYC, South America, China, and countless other places around the world where wealth is being concentrated like never before. Working people are basically funding the biggest global privatisation push since the days of kings, explorers, merchants and pirates, aka privateers. Look at the statistics, and there is a global pattern since the late 70s.
Ok, but since when does has the NY Transit workers Union been responsible for fighting all these bigger issues?
Sorry, I feel for all you guys caught in the middle of this, both the Transit Workers, most of whom probably just hope that the Union is doing right by them, and can't wait to end this, and the commuters who just want a train/bus that runs.
From what I have read(and granted, I don't know all sides) it seems like the negotiations should have led somewhere and that the Union took the heavy option a bit prematurely. This is strictly my opinion on what I am interpreting from the news about THIS SITUATION.
I will let the rest of you solve the issues of global privatization. Carry on.
A teacher with 5 years experience gets paid less here than a starting NYC Transit System Token Booth worker.
The home I bought here last year for less than $200K would be about $1.5 mil. in NY. My car insurance is 1/3rd of what it would be in NY and we have no state tax.
My property and school tax are about 1/4th of my parent's who live in Nassau County, LI. All kids starting in middle school get free laptops in both of the school districts I've lived in.
We have a Transit System that has lost money every year since it began.
My father is constantly bragging that his monthly income from Local 3 union in retirement is higher than when he was working. I'm very happy about this.
The NY economic situation is a viscious cycle.....higher wages = higher cost of goods = need for higher wages.....and yes, the unions have "something" to do with that cycle by demanding and fighting for higher wages for their workers. I'm not saying that's good/bad or indifferent....just a fact.
It's a chicken/egg scenario that I find fairly ironic.
What other explanation is there for such a blatant cost of living discrepency within the same country??