Here's the discrepancy as I see it - being a rapper = little respect / being a CEO = mucho respect.
Where does 'Director of Black Music' fall along the spectrum?
"We playing both sides of the fence," Jim Jones, Cam's partner and newly appointed director of black music[/b] at the Warner Music Group (of which Asylum is a subsidiary) said Wednesday. "We got the executive chairs, so we could be executives for the rest of our lives, but we still making good music right now. We getting the game popping."
I thought I read that shit as Cam'ron being the "director of black music." Can ya'll imagine Jim directing a staff meeting?
Well, it appears that he recently acquired an executive chair, so it looks like he's on his way!
i always question how much of a role some of these "executives" actually play and how much of it is a figurehead position to legitimize their "businessman" persona. i would imagine that the director of black music would at least have to answer to the director of all music.
For real, Im sick of that shit. It was cool when jay-z said it years ago. And for him it probably was a personal thing. But why isnt it cool anymore to say your an artist first?
Easy, it's an excuse to release shit that has mass appeal and little else.
personally i can't help but notice the corelation between a declining record industry and the massive proliferation of "corporate" artists we seem to these days.
Firstly - the artists NEVER set the price of the product and never reduced the prices to where brick and mortar record couldn't compete with the Wal-Marts of the world. The Record industy is in its pickle soley because they think it's file-sharing that's killing the biz and not the idea that consumers realize if they can buy a blank for $.50, why does the information on a CD cost $15.98.
It's always convenient to blame the artists, but they have zero control when it comes to the reasons why it's in decline. It's a ruse as the music industry as NEVER had a year where they lost money in reality. It's like wanting to create an age limit in Basketball so players who go early don't get the possiblity of a fourth contract.
Plus is it really a bad thing that the artists now are wiser about the fact it is a business than 20-30 years ago??? Maybe if people like Aretha (who I just recently did a show with) were more aware of the business side in their heyday, the artists & the industry as a whole would be better off today.
"Some get caught in the thought of intellect and say he helped us But it's his leperous butt that got us in this mess"
I thought I read that shit as Cam'ron being the "director of black music." Can ya'll imagine Jim directing a staff meeting?
Well, it appears that he recently acquired an executive chair, so it looks like he's on his way!
i always question how much of a role some of these "executives" actually play and how much of it is a figurehead position to legitimize their "businessman" persona. i would imagine that the director of black music would at least have to answer to the director of all music.
Both JayZ and Jim Jones have really legit, super-powerful decisionmaking positions. I think that shit is beautiful and empowering and I feel that Diplomats in particular are shining example of people who got fucked over by the hideous "artists are the bottom of the totem pole" mentality of the music industry and refused to stand for it anymore. They showed that they could create demand for their product without relying on the major label system and so that system came back to them BEGGING. BSides, what's your real beef with this sort of businessman/artist hybrid? I think it's great that folks are realizing that a career as an artist is ephemeral, but it can be the tool to build a lasting business infrastructure that can create generations of jobs and financial security. Jealous much?
It's like wanting to create an age limit in Basketball so players who go early don't get the possiblity of a fourth contract.
I'm not following this. Can you explain? Are you saying that if there's an age limit, 1st contract is for 3 years and then 2 7 year contracts, the likelihood of a 4th at 37 is remote, whereas at 35 it would be more likely?
I think that shit is beautiful and empowering and I feel that Diplomats in particular are shining example of people who got fucked over by the hideous "artists are the bottom of the totem pole" mentality of the music industry and refused to stand for it anymore. They showed that they could create demand for their product without relying on the major label system and so that system came back to them BEGGING.
word That's one thing that I've always admired about the Diplomats. I always thought that any underground group out there should take a cue from the Diplomats as far as succeeding without having major label support.
I wonder how many of yall with opinions have actually spoken to any artist/executive to see what it is they actually do. It's not just a title (at least, not most of the time).
It's kind of funny style, actually, see people here basically saying that an old white man with a suit and an office is an executive whereas a Black guy with a 4xl tee and a big chain is clearly just a rapper with a stupid title on his card....
Well, that's because honestly there aren't too many rappers who are executives of labels that they don't own themselves.
So, should they make up a new term for someone who runs a label that is their own?
I'm the President of my corporation, and the sole shareholder. should I call myself the "big cheese" or "head honcho" because it's not part of a conglomerate???
it's great that folks are realizing that a career as an artist is ephemeral
Plaese to change this to read 'a career as a high-profile[/b] artist making millions[/b] is ephemeral'.
Thank god that thousands of artists past present and future have demonstrated integrity and longevity sticking to this career path in spite of its accompanying financial and other day-to-day difficulties.
I don't think they should at all but that's where the perception is coming from. I think it's a great thing that the artists that are responsible for molding modern music are put in charge of that music's future.
It's kind of funny style, actually, see people here basically saying that an old white man with a suit and an office is an executive whereas a Black guy with a 4xl tee and a big chain is clearly just a rapper with a stupid title on his card....
EXACTLY. and thus the racism (whether intended or not).
MikeFree - that's what I mean - at 35 you're more likely to be able to get that fourth contract than at 37
No I hear you, I am just saying, abstractly, that the perception put forth by some in this thread is pretty condescending and contradicts their supposed interest in all things "street-hop", you dig?
To me, an artist with a homespun label that manages to promote his music, tour, work out distribution, and eventually partner with a larger label is as much a CEO as some pasty white dude playing golf with his billionaire homies and calling it a "business deal".
I wonder how many of yall with opinions have actually spoken to any artist/executive to see what it is they actually do. It's not just a title (at least, not most of the time).
It's kind of funny style, actually, see people here basically saying that an old white man with a suit and an office is an executive whereas a Black guy with a 4xl tee and a big chain is clearly just a rapper with a stupid title on his card....
come on paychecks. i don't know if that was directed at me, but i'll bite anyway. i was NOT questioning jim jones' capabilities as a businessman because he wears a 4xl tee. i was questioning the willingness of the narrow minded "old white men" to put someone in a 4xl tee in a position of power, no strings attached.
I wonder how many of yall with opinions have actually spoken to any artist/executive to see what it is they actually do. It's not just a title (at least, not most of the time).
It's kind of funny style, actually, see people here basically saying that an old white man with a suit and an office is an executive whereas a Black guy with a 4xl tee and a big chain is clearly just a rapper with a stupid title on his card....
come on paychecks. i don't know if that was directed at me, but i'll bite anyway. i was NOT questioning jim jones' capabilities as a businessman because he wears a 4xl tee. i was questioning the willingness of the narrow minded "old white men" to put someone in a 4xl tee in a position of power, no strings attached.
That's why I said "abstractly".... I am not pointing fingers, more of a "if the shoe fits"...
However, these narrow minded "old white men" have never cared about retaining power, they just want the money to be made. They see that a Jim Jones can make their money a lot better than some of these suck-up industry bitches. There are a lot of "young white men" though that are getting a little nervous because they have been bricking on new acts for years and all of a sudden street savvy and business savvy artists are taking their precious positions.
There are a lot of "young white men" though that are getting a little nervous because they have been bricking on new acts for years and all of a sudden street savvy and business savvy artists are taking their precious positions.
I would think that a large portion of indie label owners would NOT want to be referred to as a CEO, but that's just me. I think the only reason why an indie label owner would get clowned by referring to himself as a CEO is that there are so many indie labels out there who have mufuckahs calling themselves CEOs and they are doing absolutely nothing. I agree that it's completely unreasonable to treat a mufuckah doing his shit and being successful doing his shit any different from some CEO of a random company that probably got that shit passed down by his pops or whatever. As far as the whole Jay-Z and Jim Jones thing goes, hopefully this is a sign of better things to come in the future for record labels actually getting a clue. Right now a lot of people are still on some as Keak da Sneak said "let's see which one of these niggaz I can trust with some money" shit, but hopefully everything goes smooth with Jimmy and Jay so other labels follow suit. I'm kinda rambling now but I'm sure I made some sense.
To me, an artist with a homespun label that manages to promote his music, tour, work out distribution, and eventually partner with a larger label is as much a CEO as some pasty white dude playing golf with his billionaire homies and calling it a "business deal".
But how much can you really do all by yourself?
I'm running my little label as a one-man army with one guy helping out. I promote it, work out distribution, take care of my artists the best that I can, do all the the paperworks, try to kepp my website updated, hang out at the mastering studio, work on artwork with my layouter, dj to promote the label and make some money and every single day seems to be too short to get all the things done that I want to get done.
To me, an artist with a homespun label that manages to promote his music, tour, work out distribution, and eventually partner with a larger label is as much a CEO as some pasty white dude playing golf with his billionaire homies and calling it a "business deal".
But how much can you really do all by yourself?
I'm running my little label as a one-man army with one guy helping out. I promote it, work out distribution, take care of my artists the best that I can, do all the the paperworks, try to kepp my website updated, hang out at the mastering studio, work on artwork with my layouter, dj to promote the label and make some money and every single day seems to be too short to get all the things done that I want to get done.
As I'm quickly learning that is the reeality of running your own ship. It'll never be 9-5, with a pass off to someone who can share responsibility. But a CEO is only the chief, obviously any company draws most of its strength from the foot soldiers (as it were).
Crackers been runnin shit too long. Even back in the day???
Miles Davis (one of the first and most successful jazz ???businessman???) had just got notice that Wynton Kelly was leaving. He bumped into a young (18?) Herbie Hancock outside after a gig. Herbie was trying to get Miles to hire him. Miles was not interested, but he offered to give Herbie a ride home in his Mazariti (sp). Herbie said, ???No thanks, I have a car.??? And pointed over to his new Jaguar. Miles hired him on the spot.
Herbie Hancock was telling me about hanging with Lee Morgan watching the World Series when that car commercial with ???Sidewinder??? came on.
Herbie was like, ???Man, you getting paid for that???right????
Lee, silent
Moral:
Herbie has always owned his publishing. Lee never did. Both are/were great artists. Herbie was also a ???business man.??? He???s rich as fuck and very happy to this day. Lee was hustling gig-to-gig and got shot on the bandstand by some dumbass whore. God bless him.
With time you'll see more and more of young cats trying to control their own destiny. The CEO claim is very post-P.Diddy. Give Russel Simmons credit for giving that role a larger sense of celebrity and street cred.The game has come a long way from Silvia"Rob-A-*iggA"Robinson, to the Jay-ZDash controversy.Its better having 20 out 30 mcs claiming some sort of business title,than 3 out of 30. I was checkin' Usher out on tv and his mom was saying he is trying to build an empire.Im not that much of a fan to co-sign on that but the cat is thinking long term. No matter how grandiose it may sound,it shows he has vision.
Listen, i dont know what this is turning into, and I gotta go so I cant read it all.
but i just want to emphatically state that in no way was this some sort of anti corporate rap monolougue. You can call me misinformed or whatever, but really all i was saying is that its a bit corny to be up in everyones face with how your such a buisinessman first and you just happen to rap, or sing, or whatever. Capitalize off your cultural contributions to every extent possible absolutely, but please tell me you do it because you love it, not just because its lucrative.
Additionally, I do think we have reached a level where were beyond a sales define stats mentality. Its like people decide who to listen to based on who makes the best executive power move. Or who's beefing with what camp, or whatever gimmicky sideshow motherfuckers are pushing right now. Id like to hear that people are at least still concerned with making good music too. Because god knows the majority of these "executives" traditionally speaking, could give a flying fuck.
Again, im not being critical of anyone really. All i am saying is lets be artists first. Please try to innovate a little bit, rather than just shooting for the minimum risk buisiness bottom line. Its music, not U.S. steel. Lets be artists first. thats all.
Comments
Where does 'Director of Black Music' fall along the spectrum?
"We playing both sides of the fence," Jim Jones, Cam's partner and newly appointed director of black music[/b] at the Warner Music Group (of which Asylum is a subsidiary) said Wednesday. "We got the executive chairs, so we could be executives for the rest of our lives, but we still making good music right now. We getting the game popping."
Well, it appears that he recently acquired an executive chair, so it looks like he's on his way!
i always question how much of a role some of these "executives" actually play and how much of it is a figurehead position to legitimize their "businessman" persona. i would imagine that the director of black music would at least have to answer to the director of all music.
Easy, it's an excuse to release shit that has mass appeal and little else.
Firstly - the artists NEVER set the price of the product and never reduced the prices to where brick and mortar record couldn't compete with the Wal-Marts of the world. The Record industy is in its pickle soley because they think it's file-sharing that's killing the biz and not the idea that consumers realize if they can buy a blank for $.50, why does the information on a CD cost $15.98.
It's always convenient to blame the artists, but they have zero control when it comes to the reasons why it's in decline. It's a ruse as the music industry as NEVER had a year where they lost money in reality. It's like wanting to create an age limit in Basketball so players who go early don't get the possiblity of a fourth contract.
Plus is it really a bad thing that the artists now are wiser about the fact it is a business than 20-30 years ago??? Maybe if people like Aretha (who I just recently did a show with) were more aware of the business side in their heyday, the artists & the industry as a whole would be better off today.
"Some get caught in the thought of intellect and say he helped us
But it's his leperous butt that got us in this mess"
- Zev Love X circa 1988
Both JayZ and Jim Jones have really legit, super-powerful decisionmaking positions. I think that shit is beautiful and empowering and I feel that Diplomats in particular are shining example of people who got fucked over by the hideous "artists are the bottom of the totem pole" mentality of the music industry and refused to stand for it anymore. They showed that they could create demand for their product without relying on the major label system and so that system came back to them BEGGING. BSides, what's your real beef with this sort of businessman/artist hybrid? I think it's great that folks are realizing that a career as an artist is ephemeral, but it can be the tool to build a lasting business infrastructure that can create generations of jobs and financial security. Jealous much?
I'm not following this. Can you explain? Are you saying that if there's an age limit, 1st contract is for 3 years and then 2 7 year contracts, the likelihood of a 4th at 37 is remote, whereas at 35 it would be more likely?
That's one thing that I've always admired about the Diplomats. I always thought that any underground group out there should take a cue from the Diplomats as far as succeeding without having major label support.
It's kind of funny style, actually, see people here basically saying that an old white man with a suit and an office is an executive whereas a Black guy with a 4xl tee and a big chain is clearly just a rapper with a stupid title on his card....
So, should they make up a new term for someone who runs a label that is their own?
I'm the President of my corporation, and the sole shareholder. should I call myself the "big cheese" or "head honcho" because it's not part of a conglomerate???
Plaese to change this to read 'a career as a high-profile[/b] artist making millions[/b] is ephemeral'.
Thank god that thousands of artists past present and future have demonstrated integrity and longevity sticking to this career path in spite of its accompanying financial and other day-to-day difficulties.
but yeah, good points being made here.
EXACTLY. and thus the racism (whether intended or not).
MikeFree - that's what I mean - at 35 you're more likely to be able to get that fourth contract than at 37
To me, an artist with a homespun label that manages to promote his music, tour, work out distribution, and eventually partner with a larger label is as much a CEO as some pasty white dude playing golf with his billionaire homies and calling it a "business deal".
come on paychecks. i don't know if that was directed at me, but i'll bite anyway. i was NOT questioning jim jones' capabilities as a businessman because he wears a 4xl tee. i was questioning the willingness of the narrow minded "old white men" to put someone in a 4xl tee in a position of power, no strings attached.
That's why I said "abstractly".... I am not pointing fingers, more of a "if the shoe fits"...
However, these narrow minded "old white men" have never cared about retaining power, they just want the money to be made. They see that a Jim Jones can make their money a lot better than some of these suck-up industry bitches. There are a lot of "young white men" though that are getting a little nervous because they have been bricking on new acts for years and all of a sudden street savvy and business savvy artists are taking their precious positions.
real talk
But how much can you really do all by yourself?
I'm running my little label as a one-man army with one guy helping out. I promote it, work out distribution, take care of my artists the best that I can, do all the the paperworks, try to kepp my website updated, hang out at the mastering studio, work on artwork with my layouter, dj to promote the label and make some money and every single day seems to be too short to get all the things done that I want to get done.
As I'm quickly learning that is the reeality of running your own ship. It'll never be 9-5, with a pass off to someone who can share responsibility. But a CEO is only the chief, obviously any company draws most of its strength from the foot soldiers (as it were).
Miles Davis (one of the first and most successful jazz ???businessman???) had just got notice that Wynton Kelly was leaving. He bumped into a young (18?) Herbie Hancock outside after a gig. Herbie was trying to get Miles to hire him. Miles was not interested, but he offered to give Herbie a ride home in his Mazariti (sp). Herbie said, ???No thanks, I have a car.??? And pointed over to his new Jaguar. Miles hired him on the spot.
Herbie Hancock was telling me about hanging with Lee Morgan watching the World Series when that car commercial with ???Sidewinder??? came on.
Herbie was like, ???Man, you getting paid for that???right????
Lee, silent
Moral:
Herbie has always owned his publishing. Lee never did. Both are/were great artists. Herbie was also a ???business man.??? He???s rich as fuck and very happy to this day. Lee was hustling gig-to-gig and got shot on the bandstand by some dumbass whore. God bless him.
I was checkin' Usher out on tv and his mom was saying he is trying to build an empire.Im not that much of a fan to co-sign on that but the cat is thinking long term. No matter how grandiose it may sound,it shows he has vision.
but i just want to emphatically state that in no way was this some sort of anti corporate rap monolougue. You can call me misinformed or whatever, but really all i was saying is that its a bit corny to be up in everyones face with how your such a buisinessman first and you just happen to rap, or sing, or whatever. Capitalize off your cultural contributions to every extent possible absolutely, but please tell me you do it because you love it, not just because its lucrative.
Additionally, I do think we have reached a level where were beyond a sales define stats mentality. Its like people decide who to listen to based on who makes the best executive power move. Or who's beefing with what camp, or whatever gimmicky sideshow motherfuckers are pushing right now. Id like to hear that people are at least still concerned with making good music too. Because god knows the majority of these "executives" traditionally speaking, could give a flying fuck.
Again, im not being critical of anyone really. All i am saying is lets be artists first. Please try to innovate a little bit, rather than just shooting for the minimum risk buisiness bottom line. Its music, not U.S. steel. Lets be artists first. thats all.
What?!
Omarion (and his moms) are thinking empire--stop hating, dude!
false dichotomy. one must do both to strive and stay alive.
if you like the record, no one should have to tell you anything.