Look, the MTA is irresponsible and pays its execs too much and raises fares rather than cut back on bs construction programs and fat cat bonuses.
BUT.
Who gets the short end of the stick? Working people man. People who make far less than your average MTA employee. Them folks are losing work over UNION motherfuckers bickering with CORPORATE motherfuckers. They're all motherfuckers.
This is misinformed, but I'm sure you're just ranting. Starting salary for them is low and was just made lower in the previous round of negs, same as police and fire.
OK, then what is their starting salary? Everything I've read and heard leads me to believe it is in the 40s, starting salary for police and fire is like 18k a year.
MTA starting around 25K, MTA Cops starting around 33K
NYPD starting salary 34,970K
Don't believe Bloomberg's anti-union propaganda. Dude's a billionaire.
I think the sticking point on the union is really the MTA's desire to raise the retirement limit from 55 to 62. I think this is key to understand because MTA employees have great pension and retirement plans. These are plans which, when they were first created, did not anticipate people living nearly as long as they do today. Also, many large manufacturing sectors are now suffering as their workforces contract and are unable to pay pensions. They may be anticipating a smaller workforce as greater efficiencies take root.
(I think GM is a great example here. When you have to pay $1500 per vehicle in health-care related costs, you really can't compete with smaller, more nimble companies. The irony of course, is that the Union's past success at GM comes back to haunt it. Michigan already has a large unemployment rate. Look for things to get worse.)
By raising the bar on retirement, the MTA is only recognizing what we already know. People are living longer and living with costly health care.
For a job that requires little, if any, education, MTA is great. My understanding is that there are hundreds of applicants for every job - mainly because the benefits are way beyond the average joe's. So you can't argue that the pay is too low.
At the same time, MTA workers deserve to get more, recognizing that there will probably be fewer MTA jobs in the future as subway car technology allows for fewer drivers. But some jobs already don't seem necessary.
Take the subway token people for instance. Before the implementation of the subway card, they sat in booths and had to dispense tokens. They still have jobs, but now they do nothing. Today they just sit in bulletproof booths and wait for a tourist to ask for directions.
Last night we saw a great example of brinkmanship. But the Union buckled at the last minute. Now they are calling for selective strikes on buslines in Queens. But I think this shows their entire hand is a bluff. The buslines in Queens may stand up to a legal challenge of fines because they were recently sold to the MTA and the transfer hasn't been official yet. So, technically, they aren't public transporation and thus cannot be subject to the legal fines threatened by the MTA.
This move is totally wack, because it indicates that the Union will not strike on regular lines because they can't handle the fines.
For the record. I think MTA needs to hire some guys to go down and scrub the floors. Some of the stations are nasty.
didn't find salaries on the MTA website. Larry, why are news organizations stating that conductors, bus drivers, and motormen make $50k+ starting? If this is in fact $20k over what you state? Are we talking about the same thing here? Starting salary for people who sit in token booths, janitors, administrative assistants?
didn't find salaries on the MTA website. Larry, why are news organizations stating that conductors, bus drivers, and motormen make $50k+ starting? If this is in fact $20k over what you state? Are we talking about the same thing here? Starting salary for people who sit in token booths, janitors, administrative assistants?
I don't know. The "employment" page on the MTA web site has gone down since this morning. The NY Sun (home of Vitamin) says the following:
"The starting salary for a NYC Transit train operator is $52,644 a year, before overtime. In the new contracts that the city's municipal unions negotiated this year, the starting salary for a New York Police Department officer will be $25,100 a year, which goes up to $32,700 after six months. A New York City firefighter's starting salary will be $25,100 and sanitation workers will get $26,000 to start."
I can't find any listing for the folks that work in token booths, janitors or admin assts. One of the links I posted above includes salaries for bus drivers. I can't find a listing in the NYT. I did see a lot of blogs etc. ranting about high salaries but no citations, so I am suspicious.
I don't know. The "employment" page on the MTA web site has gone down since this morning. The NY Sun (home of Vitamin) says the following:
"The starting salary for a NYC Transit train operator is $52,644 a year, before overtime. In the new contracts that the city's municipal unions negotiated this year, the starting salary for a New York Police Department officer will be $25,100 a year, which goes up to $32,700 after six months. A New York City firefighter's starting salary will be $25,100 and sanitation workers will get $26,000 to start."
I actually ran into the guy who is negotiating on behalf of the MTA on the subway (no kidding I recognized him from TV last night but he denied being who he was, but he was holding a bound copy of a contract with MTA letterhead all over it) on the way to work and when I asked if there would be a strike he said "I don't think so."
Canonical: I don't know where you get your info, but NYC has been in debt since the 70's when the state government had to make a plan to bail it out. Then Guiliani left the city with millions in debt on top of the whole cost of rebuilding the WTC site. Add on to that the raise in the cost of living, the artists are being pushed out of their Brooklyn neighborhoods by all the folks tired of the city, gas prices are sky high, etc. etc. So no, we're not that prosperous.
Add on the fact that the MTA was ORDERED by the mayor's office to reduce the transit fare back to $1.50 after they discovered the MTA was doing a lot of embezzling and misuse of funds, and they still haven't reduced the fares, while the exectutives elected themselves a pay raise? I feel for the workers and all, but seriously, they got nice jobs and good benefits, and I would have gladly traded my $30k a year job working for two lawyer harpies to chill in a bulletproof booth with my radio for the same amount of money.
Berlin is looking good right now.
JP - yo, come by company if you're stranded - get drunk and we can share a cab.
i visited my sister in NYC about 3-4 years ago in december and remember there was a possible subway strike... when youre visiting... luckily nothing went down and my trip was great.
nyc subways rule especially in comparison to the VTA here in san jose, ca.
Canonical: I don't know where you get your info, but NYC has been in debt since the 70's when the state government had to make a plan to bail it out. Then Guiliani left the city with millions in debt on top of the whole cost of rebuilding the WTC site. Add on to that the raise in the cost of living, the artists are being pushed out of their Brooklyn neighborhoods by all the folks tired of the city, gas prices are sky high, etc. etc. So no, we're not that prosperous.
Add on the fact that the MTA was ORDERED by the mayor's office to reduce the transit fare back to $1.50 after they discovered the MTA was doing a lot of embezzling and misuse of funds, and they still haven't reduced the fares, while the exectutives elected themselves a pay raise? I feel for the workers and all, but seriously, they got nice jobs and good benefits, and I would have gladly traded my $30k a year job working for two lawyer harpies to chill in a bulletproof booth with my radio for the same amount of money.
When I said "economic center of the world", I meant that many of the huge world wide economic heads reside in NY. A lot of business trading goes on in NY. The stock exchange is one of the most active in the world. That's what I meant. It's a huge contradictory absurdity that in a city where all this economic activity is going on there are throngs of people living in abject poverty, and most barely making it by (with high rent, gas prices, unregulated services, no nationalised healthcare, etc).
I was originally arguing against Johnny Paycheck (namecheck?) on the basis that I thought his argument was rooted in being anti-union.
If the MTA union is corrupt and handling things for their own self-interest, then they are a disgrace to the honest organized workers in America, and the world over.
Some people in situations like this like to immediately blame the union. If only they didn't have a union..., the union does this..., and those workers are greedy.... Such arguments have no basis whatsoever and those are the ones I was directing my comments too.
Sorry if it got mixed up, I'm fairly new to soulstrut political discussions
I'm not anti-union, in this particular situation the TWU has consistently fought for MTA employees to get what, in my opinion, is more than enough for what they do.
I am a working dude from a family of working folks. No way am I ever against workers organizing and fighting. When, in situations like this, it ends up fucking hard working people in the ass, who make less, well... as we can all see at this point, it's a lot of show and posturing.
I'm not anti-union, in this particular situation the TWU has consistently fought for MTA employees to get what, in my opinion, is more than enough for what they do.
Sorry, should have clarified that. Originally I thought that you were, but you quickly clarified that by your second point.
Comments
MTA starting around 25K, MTA Cops starting around 33K
NYPD starting salary 34,970K
Don't believe Bloomberg's anti-union propaganda. Dude's a billionaire.
(I think GM is a great example here. When you have to pay $1500 per vehicle in health-care related costs, you really can't compete with smaller, more nimble companies. The irony of course, is that the Union's past success at GM comes back to haunt it. Michigan already has a large unemployment rate. Look for things to get worse.)
By raising the bar on retirement, the MTA is only recognizing what we already know. People are living longer and living with costly health care.
For a job that requires little, if any, education, MTA is great. My understanding is that there are hundreds of applicants for every job - mainly because the benefits are way beyond the average joe's. So you can't argue that the pay is too low.
At the same time, MTA workers deserve to get more, recognizing that there will probably be fewer MTA jobs in the future as subway car technology allows for fewer drivers. But some jobs already don't seem necessary.
Take the subway token people for instance. Before the implementation of the subway card, they sat in booths and had to dispense tokens. They still have jobs, but now they do nothing. Today they just sit in bulletproof booths and wait for a tourist to ask for directions.
Last night we saw a great example of brinkmanship. But the Union buckled at the last minute. Now they are calling for selective strikes on buslines in Queens. But I think this shows their entire hand is a bluff. The buslines in Queens may stand up to a legal challenge of fines because they were recently sold to the MTA and the transfer hasn't been official yet. So, technically, they aren't public transporation and thus cannot be subject to the legal fines threatened by the MTA.
This move is totally wack, because it indicates that the Union will not strike on regular lines because they can't handle the fines.
For the record. I think MTA needs to hire some guys to go down and scrub the floors. Some of the stations are nasty.
Larry, can you provide linkage to official numbers?
NYPD FAQ
MTA Police
MTA Bus Drivers Salary
Metro North Salaries
There's more info on the MTA Site but you really have to drill down
i just got back in town. what is this madness??? looks like i should have stayed gone a couple extra days.
average, not minimum, but yes, NYTimes reported it at around 55k.
Taking a wild guess, I would say $28-32 starting.
I don't know. The "employment" page on the MTA web site has gone down since this morning. The NY Sun (home of Vitamin) says the following:
"The starting salary for a NYC Transit train operator is $52,644 a year, before overtime. In the new contracts that the city's municipal unions negotiated this year, the starting salary for a New York Police Department officer will be $25,100 a year, which goes up to $32,700 after six months. A New York City firefighter's starting salary will be $25,100 and sanitation workers will get $26,000 to start."
I can't find any listing for the folks that work in token booths, janitors or admin assts. One of the links I posted above includes salaries for bus drivers. I can't find a listing in the NYT. I did see a lot of blogs etc. ranting about high salaries but no citations, so I am suspicious.
The Sun....who reads that paper? I'm not saying their numbers are like $5,000 off, but...cut and paste the following... http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:pnN93UX-4cEJ:www.mta.info/nyct/hr/compete_prelim/train_operator.htm++"train"+"salary"+site:http://www.mta.info&hl=en&client=firefox-a
Trains keep-a rollin' as of now.....no three day weekend in sight....
I feel like I might be making this up but I'm pretty sure that sabadabada said he wrote for them. :you sound poor graemlin:
Easy mistake to make. Vitamin wrote for the Sun.
Add on the fact that the MTA was ORDERED by the mayor's office to reduce the transit fare back to $1.50 after they discovered the MTA was doing a lot of embezzling and misuse of funds, and they still haven't reduced the fares, while the exectutives elected themselves a pay raise? I feel for the workers and all, but seriously, they got nice jobs and good benefits, and I would have gladly traded my $30k a year job working for two lawyer harpies to chill in a bulletproof booth with my radio for the same amount of money.
Berlin is looking good right now.
JP - yo, come by company if you're stranded - get drunk and we can share a cab.
nyc subways rule especially in comparison to the VTA here in san jose, ca.
-rich
I was originally arguing against Johnny Paycheck (namecheck?) on the basis that I thought his argument was rooted in being anti-union.
If the MTA union is corrupt and handling things for their own self-interest, then they are a disgrace to the honest organized workers in America, and the world over.
Some people in situations like this like to immediately blame the union. If only they didn't have a union..., the union does this..., and those workers are greedy.... Such arguments have no basis whatsoever and those are the ones I was directing my comments too.
Sorry if it got mixed up, I'm fairly new to soulstrut political discussions
I am a working dude from a family of working folks. No way am I ever against workers organizing and fighting. When, in situations like this, it ends up fucking hard working people in the ass, who make less, well... as we can all see at this point, it's a lot of show and posturing.