The issue here isn't over the quality of the movie - it has to do with the politics of casting and if you can't separte the two, I'm not sure we're even having the same conversation.
I don't even get the Bollywood analogy you're pushing here. What are you saying?
The Bollywood deal wasn't really put towards you. But I'd like to go back to what your first[/b] statement was.
I don't think this is really that big of a deal given that the whole movie (and book it's based off of) is already. I mean, a book by a white guy about geishas (turned into a film no less) is about as interesting or novel as white dudes looking at Asian porn.
Are you saying that a white guy or anyone else not Japanese could never know as much about the history of geishas as most Japanese? Or that a book by an Asian guy on hip hop is about as interesting or novel as a Chinese guy trying to rap?
I don't think hollywood gives a damn to be honest................there just aren't any big name Japnaese actresses that are proficient in English. I'm sure if the tables are turned and the big name asian actresses are Japanese instead of Chinese, it would work out otherwise.
Zhang Yiyi stepped her game up though, she couldn't speak a lick of engrish a few years ago, so props to her for making that move.
The issue here isn't over the quality of the movie - it has to do with the politics of casting and if you can't separte the two, I'm not sure we're even having the same conversation.
I don't even get the Bollywood analogy you're pushing here. What are you saying?
The Bollywood deal wasn't really put towards you. But I'd like to go back to what your first[/b] statement was.
I don't think this is really that big of a deal given that the whole movie (and book it's based off of) is already. I mean, a book by a white guy about geishas (turned into a film no less) is about as interesting or novel as white dudes looking at Asian porn.
Are you saying that a white guy or anyone else not Japanese could never know as much about the history of geishas as most Japanese? Or that a book by an Asian guy on hip hop is about as interesting or novel as a Chinese guy trying to rap? Dude, why don't you study up something about the history of race and gender as it relates to relations between America and Japan. And then compare it to the history of Asian Americans and Black culture. Then we can have this conversation.
I don't think hollywood gives a damn to be honest................there just aren't any big name Japnaese actresses that are proficient in English. I'm sure if the tables are turned and the big name asian actresses are Japanese instead of Chinese, the tables would be reversed.
Zhang Yiyi stepped her game up though, she couldn't speak a lick of engrish a few years ago, so props to her for making that move.
From the clips of the movie I've seen, her Engrish isn't all that much improved - at least not enough to pull off the acting role demanded of her. My friends who've seen the movie thought the language issues were rather awkward.
1) I saw that a Chinese actress was playing the part of "Geisha" which immediately turned me off and bugged me.
2) Newsweek Japan brought this topic up on the FRONT PAGE of it's mag. So yes, people in Japan are definitely angered by the portrayal of its country.
3) Most people in America don't know jack about Japanese culture. Likewise, most people in Japan don't know jack about American culture. so you get garbage like this.
4) bottom line, Hollywood = money. That's why they chose more familiar stars rather than go for authenticity.
Is Lucy Liu mad she's losing work? That's the real question.
P.S. This reminds me of when I saw Charlton Heston playing a "Mexican" in "A touch of evil". The literally put some brown make-up on him, gave him a "swarthy" looking moustache and named him"Vargas".
Thats a dope ass movie though. Welles is straight up gangster in that shit.
I don't think hollywood gives a damn to be honest................there just aren't any big name Japnaese actresses that are proficient in English. I'm sure if the tables are turned and the big name asian actresses are Japanese instead of Chinese, the tables would be reversed.
Zhang Yiyi stepped her game up though, she couldn't speak a lick of engrish a few years ago, so props to her for making that move.
From the clips of the movie I've seen, her Engrish isn't all that much improved - at least not enough to pull off the acting role demanded of her. My friends who've seen the movie thought the language issues were rather awkward.
ok, I admit I haven't seen any clips at all beyond the 30 second commercials. But when I mean step her game up, it was lliterally "me no speaka engahlish" bad a few years ago.
not making excuses for her, but at least she is trying, unlike any major Japanese actresses out there.
Now what this tells me is, Hollywood will shit on a race, heritage, and culture anyday if it will result in huge box office revenue.
Did you get mad that Mike Meyers is Canadian and not British when he was in Austin Powers?
Or that Mel Gibson is Australian playing a US cop in Die Hard?
On and on. Acting homes.
nah, mike meyers is a canadian white dude. austin powers is a british white dude. both speak english as their primary language.
mel gibson is an australian born in new york which made him a us citizen from the jump. primary language in australia is english right? he didn't play john mclaine (sp?) in die hard, but in any case that role was for an english speaking new york cop.
again, playing a Japanese person with a heavy Chinese accent is clown shoes. that's from an asian perspective. memoirs of a geisha was created to target non-asians in the us to make some money. aw fuck it, i'll say it. memoirs of a geisha is for white folks[/b] who will pay to watch a movie about japanese people so they can lamp in starbucks the next day sipping on a latte and talk about how much they learned about the culture from a fucking hollywood movie. i'm not out to change peoples opinions. and those who admit to not understanding, even cooler.
Is Lucy Liu mad she's losing work? That's the real question.
P.S. This reminds me of when I saw Charlton Heston playing a "Mexican" in "A touch of evil". The literally put some brown make-up on him, gave him a "swarthy" looking moustache and named him"Vargas".
Thats a dope ass movie though. Welles is straight up gangster in that shit.
Favorite Welles film - prefer it over 'Citizen Kane' actually... Cobbled together by Welles 'cause he'd been pretty much frozen out by Hollywood @ that point...
The issue here isn't over the quality of the movie - it has to do with the politics of casting and if you can't separte the two, I'm not sure we're even having the same conversation.
I don't even get the Bollywood analogy you're pushing here. What are you saying?
The Bollywood deal wasn't really put towards you. But I'd like to go back to what your first[/b] statement was.
I don't think this is really that big of a deal given that the whole movie (and book it's based off of) is already. I mean, a book by a white guy about geishas (turned into a film no less) is about as interesting or novel as white dudes looking at Asian porn.
Are you saying that a white guy or anyone else not Japanese could never know as much about the history of geishas as most Japanese? Or that a book by an Asian guy on hip hop is about as interesting or novel as a Chinese guy trying to rap?
Dude, why don't you study up something about the history of race and gender as it relates to relations between America and Japan. And then compare it to the history of Asian Americans and Black culture. Then we can have this conversation.
Right now, you're just speaking out of your ass.
Look I don't claim to be an expert on anything. I was just pointing out how your opening statement seemed kinda offensive to me. My example wasn't a jab at you directly. I just hope you were able to see how much my statement was bullshit and to maybe take a second to read over your post.
I mean, if you wanna discuss history, I doubt I'm the best person to chat with, since you've probably forgotten more than I've ever read up on. To tell you the truth, I'm more interested in Mongol invasions back in the day. If you've got knowledge to drop, I'd be willing to listen.
nah, mike meyers is a canadian white dude. austin powers is a british white dude. both speak english as their primary language.
mel gibson is an australian born in new york which made him a us citizen from the jump. primary language in australia is english right? he didn't play john mclaine (sp?) in die hard, but in any case that role was for an english speaking new york cop.
again, playing a Japanese person with a heavy Chinese accent is clown shoes. that's from an asian perspective. memoirs of a geisha was created to target non-asians in the us to make some money. aw fuck it, i'll say it. memoirs of a geisha is for white folks[/b] who will pay to watch a movie about japanese people so they can lamp in starbucks the next day sipping on a latte and talk about how much they learned about the culture from a fucking hollywood movie. i'm not out to change peoples opinions. and those who admit to not understanding, even cooler.
Point taken, but that's the thing as mentioned before: it's not a documentary. Movies take liberties all the time. Particularly with an audience who won't know the difference anyway, it doesn't matter.
And as far as Mike Meyers being white/white, I believe the actresses are Asian portraying Asians, so I'm not sure what the point of bringing up the race issue was. Language difference, perhaps. But in that respect, Mike Meyers playing a British guy with a Canadian accent?
I think "Translation" isn't in the same category as "Geisha" or "Samurai" though, cos there's the inherent "lack of understanding" already built into the movie. It's not like Coppola is trying to go out of her way to mock or pretend to understand/enlist japanese folks. It's more like an interesting setting for her two protagonists to mingle in and express their own alienation to their american culture. Also, in my opinion, she captured some snapshots of modern japanese culture that very few other films are trying to show.
I guess the point is, why would they go out of their way to do this? I can't really see what the purpose would be. It's not like they cast white people in blackface.
Most likely they chose whoever they thought would bring in the most bank. Is it really necessary that actors roles and their heritage line up? I don't think so.
Hollywood will shit on a race, heritage, and culture anyday if it will result in huge box office revenue.
If you could make a logical point why this would be such a conspiracy that would benefit Hollywood I would bite, but I just don't see it. Honestly, if it's for an American audience they could cast just about anybody with traditional "Asian" features and 99% wouldn't know the difference.
Supports that Hollywood profits on ignorance. I know it's not breaking news, but i'm just saying...
The issue here isn't racial. It's ethnic and cultural.
Look: if you had a movie about, say, the Yankees and cast all the leads using French actors, none of whom have ever played baseball, you don't think some folks who be like: ayo, what the fuck?
C'mon dudes, this is NOT a hard thing to understand.
memoirs of a geisha was created to target non-asians in the us to make some money. aw fuck it, i'll say it. memoirs of a geisha is for white folks[/b] who will pay to watch a movie about japanese people so they can lamp in starbucks the next day sipping on a latte and talk about how much they learned about the culture from a fucking hollywood movie.
I think we're giving too little credit to the simple white folk. Hollywood movies are throwaway entertainment, and the avg white folk realizes that. The value of these movies is their disposability, people just love to watch some dumb ass schitt and leave it at that. It's escapism from their everyday mundane lives.
it's ok with me though. Maybe they'll feel like having sushi after watching geisha, and more likely than not the sushi joint is run by a Chinaman.
memoirs of a geisha was created to target non-asians in the us to make some money. aw fuck it, i'll say it. memoirs of a geisha is for white folks[/b] who will pay to watch a movie about japanese people so they can lamp in starbucks the next day sipping on a latte and talk about how much they learned about the culture from a fucking hollywood movie.
I think we're giving too little credit to the simple white folk. Hollywood movies are disposable entertainment, and the avg white folk realizes that. The value of these movies is their disposability, people just love to watch some dumb ass schitt and leave it at that. It's escapism from their everyday mundane lives.
it's ok with me though. Maybe they'll feel like having sushi after watching geisha, and more likely than not the sushi joint is run by a Chinaman.
The issue here isn't racial. It's ethnic and cultural.
Look: if you had a movie about, say, the Yankees and cast all the leads using French actors, none of whom have ever played baseball, you don't think some folks who be like: ayo, what the fuck?
C'mon dudes, this is NOT a hard thing to understand.
I see your point from that respect, but if it was to primarily be played in Indonesia, I would be much more lenient.
I think "Translation" isn't in the same category as "Geisha" or "Samurai" though, cos there's the inherent "lack of understanding" already built into the movie. It's not like Coppola is trying to go out of her way to mock or pretend to understand/enlist japanese folks. It's more like an interesting setting for her two protagonists to mingle in and express their own alienation to their american culture. Also, in my opinion, she captured some snapshots of modern japanese culture that very few other films are trying to show.
not to take anything away from your comments, since i haven't seen the movie. but it's just difficult for someone that knows Japanese culture very well to have to sit through movies and notice where it slips.
I think "Translation" isn't in the same category as "Geisha" or "Samurai" though, cos there's the inherent "lack of understanding" already built into the movie. It's not like Coppola is trying to go out of her way to mock or pretend to understand/enlist japanese folks. It's more like an interesting setting for her two protagonists to mingle in and express their own alienation to their american culture. Also, in my opinion, she captured some snapshots of modern japanese culture that very few other films are trying to show.
I found LIT annoying for being overhyped and taking a very postcard approach to Japan that managed to rip off every trick in the Wong Kar Wai book. "Offensive" is a bit too strong but just because Sofia was self-aware of her colonialist perspective doesn't give her a free pass on being, you know, colonialist. That said, I'd sooner watch that again then see "The Last Samurai" aka "Shogun 2004".
Comments
The Bollywood deal wasn't really put towards you. But I'd like to go back to what your first[/b] statement was.
I don't think this is really that big of a deal given that the whole movie (and book it's based off of) is already. I mean, a book by a white guy about geishas (turned into a film no less) is about as interesting or novel as white dudes looking at Asian porn.
Are you saying that a white guy or anyone else not Japanese could never know as much about the history of geishas as most Japanese? Or that a book by an Asian guy on hip hop is about as interesting or novel as a Chinese guy trying to rap?
Zhang Yiyi stepped her game up though, she couldn't speak a lick of engrish a few years ago, so props to her for making that move.
Are you saying that a white guy or anyone else not Japanese could never know as much about the history of geishas as most Japanese? Or that a book by an Asian guy on hip hop is about as interesting or novel as a Chinese guy trying to rap?
Dude, why don't you study up something about the history of race and gender as it relates to relations between America and Japan. And then compare it to the history of Asian Americans and Black culture. Then we can have this conversation.
Right now, you're just speaking out of your ass.
From the clips of the movie I've seen, her Engrish isn't all that much improved - at least not enough to pull off the acting role demanded of her. My friends who've seen the movie thought the language issues were rather awkward.
1) I saw that a Chinese actress was playing the part of "Geisha" which immediately turned me off and bugged me.
2) Newsweek Japan brought this topic up on the FRONT PAGE of it's mag. So yes, people in Japan are definitely angered by the portrayal of its country.
3) Most people in America don't know jack about Japanese culture. Likewise, most people in Japan don't know jack about American culture. so you get garbage like this.
4) bottom line, Hollywood = money. That's why they chose more familiar stars rather than go for authenticity.
Thats a dope ass movie though. Welles is straight up gangster in that shit.
ok, I admit I haven't seen any clips at all beyond the 30 second commercials. But when I mean step her game up, it was lliterally "me no speaka engahlish" bad a few years ago.
not making excuses for her, but at least she is trying, unlike any major Japanese actresses out there.
can't blame them, if it was your $36 million at stake, would you place all your chips on an unknown Japanese actress?
it is what is, and a documentary it is not.
but this still strikes me as being like that Last Samurai movie, ugh
they're at least trying but I'll never see this schitt
i don't think i'd be making culturally insensitive movies.
for the record, i haven't seen "The Last Samurai" or "Lost in Translation" either.
nah, mike meyers is a canadian white dude. austin powers is a british white dude. both speak english as their primary language.
mel gibson is an australian born in new york which made him a us citizen from the jump. primary language in australia is english right? he didn't play john mclaine (sp?) in die hard, but in any case that role was for an english speaking new york cop.
again, playing a Japanese person with a heavy Chinese accent is clown shoes. that's from an asian perspective. memoirs of a geisha was created to target non-asians in the us to make some money. aw fuck it, i'll say it. memoirs of a geisha is for white folks[/b] who will pay to watch a movie about japanese people so they can lamp in starbucks the next day sipping on a latte and talk about how much they learned about the culture from a fucking hollywood movie. i'm not out to change peoples opinions. and those who admit to not understanding, even cooler.
REAL ASIAN WORDS. BEST BELIEVE.
scary how much desensitizing goes on in America.
Favorite Welles film - prefer it over 'Citizen Kane' actually... Cobbled together by Welles 'cause he'd been pretty much frozen out by Hollywood @ that point...
I didn't think LIT was culturally sensitive at all..........this is coming from an asian born in asia!!! haha
but last samurai, oooh wee, let's leave that one alone.
Dude, why don't you study up something about the history of race and gender as it relates to relations between America and Japan. And then compare it to the history of Asian Americans and Black culture. Then we can have this conversation.
Right now, you're just speaking out of your ass.
Look I don't claim to be an expert on anything. I was just pointing out how your opening statement seemed kinda offensive to me. My example wasn't a jab at you directly. I just hope you were able to see how much my statement was bullshit and to maybe take a second to read over your post.
I mean, if you wanna discuss history, I doubt I'm the best person to chat with, since you've probably forgotten more than I've ever read up on. To tell you the truth, I'm more interested in Mongol invasions back in the day. If you've got knowledge to drop, I'd be willing to listen.
Point taken, but that's the thing as mentioned before: it's not a documentary. Movies take liberties all the time. Particularly with an audience who won't know the difference anyway, it doesn't matter.
And as far as Mike Meyers being white/white, I believe the actresses are Asian portraying Asians, so I'm not sure what the point of bringing up the race issue was. Language difference, perhaps. But in that respect, Mike Meyers playing a British guy with a Canadian accent?
haven't seen it, won't judge, and won't see it. and yes, technically i am an asian born asian too.
Hollywood will shit on a race, heritage, and culture anyday if it will result in huge box office revenue.
Supports that Hollywood profits on ignorance. I know it's not breaking news, but i'm just saying...
Look: if you had a movie about, say, the Yankees and cast all the leads using French actors, none of whom have ever played baseball, you don't think some folks who be like: ayo, what the fuck?
C'mon dudes, this is NOT a hard thing to understand.
I think we're giving too little credit to the simple white folk. Hollywood movies are throwaway entertainment, and the avg white folk realizes that. The value of these movies is their disposability, people just love to watch some dumb ass schitt and leave it at that. It's escapism from their everyday mundane lives.
it's ok with me though. Maybe they'll feel like having sushi after watching geisha, and more likely than not the sushi joint is run by a Chinaman.
WE MAKE THAT MOONCAKE SON!
100% Agree...
I see your point from that respect, but if it was to primarily be played in Indonesia, I would be much more lenient.
yo we wrappin' that zhong zhi, we rowin' that dragon boat!!!!!!!!!!!
Correction: she goes by Ziyi Zhang now.
not to take anything away from your comments, since i haven't seen the movie.
Being from Toronto, you mean Korean right? Since probably 90% of all sushi spots in the city are run by Koreans.
Edit: OK, maybe not 90.. but the number must be pretty high.
Aser, where's ur fav spot in the city btw?
dude my pinyin is off or you're making an insane funnny
=
I found LIT annoying for being overhyped and taking a very postcard approach to Japan that managed to rip off every trick in the Wong Kar Wai book. "Offensive" is a bit too strong but just because Sofia was self-aware of her colonialist perspective doesn't give her a free pass on being, you know, colonialist. That said, I'd sooner watch that again then see "The Last Samurai" aka "Shogun 2004".