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EWO's-Engineers with Opinions

Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
edited November 2005 in Strut Central
Hey Produca cats,First of all, let me say we have a GREAT engineer for our CD. Our current engineer generally has good suggestions (especially about arranging). He produces a different style of rap music from me, so I sometimes disagree with his assessments. But, over the years, I've noticed that nearly ALL engineers have opinions/suggestions about the music being recorded. My responses to these have varied from "hey, that's a great idea" to "hell no, we're not recording a Lionel Ritchie album". Sometimes, the opinions are constructive and well-informed, other times, they come from some heavy-metal looking, Grizzly Adams-type dude who knows NOTHING about rap. So, how do you guys feel about EWOs-Engineers with Opinions? Good? Bad? Indifferent? Fuck em'? What? Please share stories.Peace,Big Stacks from Kakalak

  Comments

  • silvertonesilvertone 765 Posts
    If you are paying them... then tell them what you want... If they can't do it, find someone who can.
    I think presenting options for song mixes is fine... but arrangements, changes to the song, etc, should be left to the songwriter or depending on the situation, the person designated "producer". A lot of engineers work on a per-hour basis, and so presenting 5 different options for a mix is a good way for them to make an extra 30 bucks. Do what you feel. You are paying them for thier ears.
  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    Generally, if there is a producer and an engineer, the engineer is the one who can technically facilitate what the producer wants to happen. Many times, when there is no "producer" per se, the engineer will take on some of those more creative roles. I think if don't want the engineer you are paying to give their 2 cents on your record that they may or may not have an understanding of, you should tell them, or ideally discuss it beforehand, ie- what they are expected to contribute. From my experience, most enginneers really want to be producers as well, but those without the required interpersonal skills don't get hired as producers. This leads them to be bitter and requires them to validate their importance to the session by chiming in every 5 goddamn minutes with their great ideas. Although they can be nice people and fun to talk with, they can often be counter-productive to a session.

    On the other hand, sometimes it is nice to have a totally random opinion on what you're doing. That metalhead engineer might have a great idea how to re-edit your hiphop masterpiece.

    Bottom line - if someone is there in a strictly technical role as an engineer, they shouldn't get too bent out of shape about you shooting down their idea. If they are professionals, they'll do whatever you want them to do, including shutting the fuck up.


    Mike
  • meshmesh 925 Posts
    i think i am an EWO before anything else, so i guess i will give my perspective.

    if everything is going well, there is a producer-type person there calling shots,etc, then i generally dont have a whole lot of input other than "get a little closer to/further from the mic" or "watch those Ps."

    most of my clients trust me with their mixes for the most part, but they are more than welcome to say "turn ____ up/down" or whatever.

    only time i start adding my 2 cents are when i feel like the session is either going nowhere, or going the wrong way. or maybe i just have an idea that i think will elevate the song. i try to play my role as i dont want to be that guy, you know?

    i am a team player and really only like to work with people who like working with me and respect me and are team players as well. i try to see the big picture and do whatever i can to get it there.

    but if i was to go into someone else's studio with just some tracks and the engineer started coming at me giving me suggestions, i might just say shut the fuck up and get to mixing.

    but i probably wouldnt do that(go to someone else's studio to work). i like mixing more than making beats anyway.

  • silvertonesilvertone 765 Posts
    I mean, you need to have a sense to respect also.
    I would assume in most instances that you are already hiring a guy because you like his work first and foremost, and that he is going to respect your decision to bring him buisness.
    I do everything myself, but wish that I had a realy good engineer to mix my stuff... preferably in a studio that was reasonably priced, with good gear, large format sounding, but most importantly a dood with a big bag of tricks for getting multed-stems to sound really fucking good.
  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    If an engineer has a suggestion on sculpting the sound, equipment, signal flow, proper studio techniques, or just generally how to better accomplish what I'm after (i.e. "It sounds like you're going for a super-punchy kick drum--you should try this...."), then I'm definitely listening. Every engineer I know knows a shitload more about that stuff than I do, and we're after the same thing: to make a song the best it can be. I have precious little in-studio experience, but every time I play music inside or outside the studio for engineers I know, that's the kind of feedback I'm after.

    As for opinions on composition, arrangement, etc....well, I'm always open to suggestions, but I also have a good idea of what I want to do, so I'm probably more likely to stick to my own plan. Still, I've gotten excellent composition/arrangement suggestions from engineers because, well, they really know music.
  • Phill_MostPhill_Most 4,594 Posts
    If you have an engineer you can trust it's great to get opinions from him. But that's the whole thing- having an engineer you can trust. Someone who's familiar with and likes your kind of music makes all the difference in the world IMO. And somebody who gives a damn about the finished product and isn't just out for a payday. I have worked with some big name engineers in big name studios and still did not get the desired results, just because dudes may not have really wanted to work an "all nighter" or the project wasn't a big major label affair or whatever. You gotta be able to trust the dude's opinion if he's gonna give it to you.
    Bottom line, though- your music, your project, your final decision when it comes to how the schitt is gonna sound. If it sounds good to you even though the engineer is saying it's too muddy, just let it be your muddy ass music and be happy with it. See, songs are like kids; they come out of your body and most of them aren't worth shit, but they're yours (words for the music maker to live by).
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