1) I don't think there were ever that many conservatives on the board to begin with.
2) Vitamin always put up a huge fight over his ideas, which basically were only on one point: a Neoconservatives argument for the Iraq war. He doesn't post much because he moved to Egypt, not because he gave up on the Strut or got tired of the arguments.
3) the3rdstream is still here posting as usual. Like Vitamin, he usually just threw in a few comments about supporting the war, but otherwise I don't remember him voicing any other conservatives ideas.
4) Paul Nice seemed like a very conservative, anti-communist, etc. person. He hasn't posted that much lately, probably for personal reasons. But he also seemed to stick to the record talk anyways.
Other than that there's only been a few other people who I can remember voicing conervatives or Republican ideas. Our latest addition, sabawhatever, just seems to like to talk shit and hasn't contributed any kind of real discussion about anything. For shit talking he got shit talking, what does he expect? I tried to engage him on a couple points about Bush's Supreme Court nominations and the Iraq war, but he didn't make any reply. That's on him.
i think there's a problem being created where there is not one.
Agreed
so true.
motown you're indepth analysis is always on point and much appreciated.. i havent seen anny semblance of a flip side to that coin from any of these so called conservative strutters.
i think there's a problem being created where there is not one.
A shocking departure from character for the thread's progenitor...
silence infidel
In my original post I stated that I thought we should give those with differing opinions a better chance to speak. I said this thread was more a comment than a quesiton to ask. There was no firestarting meant by it.
1) I don't think there were ever that many conservatives on the board to begin with.
2) Vitamin always put up a huge fight over his ideas, which basically were only on one point: a Neoconservatives argument for the Iraq war. He doesn't post much because he moved to Egypt, not because he gave up on the Strut or got tired of the arguments.
3) the3rdstream is still here posting as usual. Like Vitamin, he usually just threw in a few comments about supporting the war, but otherwise I don't remember him voicing any other conservatives ideas.
4) Paul Nice seemed like a very conservative, anti-communist, etc. person. He hasn't posted that much lately, probably for personal reasons. But he also seemed to stick to the record talk anyways.
Other than that there's only been a few other people who I can remember voicing conervatives or Republican ideas. Our latest addition, sabawhatever, just seems to like to talk shit and hasn't contributed any kind of real discussion about anything. For shit talking he got shit talking, what does he expect? I tried to engage him on a couple points about Bush's Supreme Court nominations and the Iraq war, but he didn't make any reply. That's on him.
i think rootlesscosmo is pretty right wing. and don't forget john titor
In my original post I stated that I thought we should give those with differing opinions a better chance to speak.
I agree...how about a new forum "Conservative Thoughts Revealed". I can hear the crickets from here.
If there is any instance of people being 'silenced' due to their point of view or politics, this is an issue to take up w/ the moderators. Is there an example you want to share with the class?
Peter: Yeah well uh, I used to come into Sales once or twice a week to uhh rent movies from his uh back room. You know what I mean? Room for uh adults only, catch my drift? The uh you know, kind of movies where there uh x-rated pornos and fully nude people fornicate for the camera and stuff comes out, get my meaning?
Desk clerk: Oh i'm sorry but LackLuster Video takes a strong moral stance against Pornography, Open Mindedness[/b] and non-Christians.
Peter: Oh ya, then why do you rent out Prince of Tides? Barbara Streisan's Jewish.
Peter: Yeah well uh, I used to come into Sales once or twice a week to uhh rent movies from his uh back room. You know what I mean? Room for uh adults only, catch my drift? The uh you know, kind of movies where there uh x-rated pornos and fully nude people fornicate for the camera and stuff comes out, get my meaning?
Desk clerk: Oh i'm sorry but LackLuster Video takes a strong moral stance against Pornography, Open Mindedness[/b] and non-Christians.
Peter: Oh ya, then why do you rent out Prince of Tides? Barbara Streisan's Jewish.
1) I don't think there were ever that many conservatives on the board to begin with.
2) Vitamin always put up a huge fight over his ideas, which basically were only on one point: a Neoconservatives argument for the Iraq war. He doesn't post much because he moved to Egypt, not because he gave up on the Strut or got tired of the arguments.
3) the3rdstream is still here posting as usual. Like Vitamin, he usually just threw in a few comments about supporting the war, but otherwise I don't remember him voicing any other conservatives ideas.
4) Paul Nice seemed like a very conservative, anti-communist, etc. person. He hasn't posted that much lately, probably for personal reasons. But he also seemed to stick to the record talk anyways.
Other than that there's only been a few other people who I can remember voicing conervatives or Republican ideas. Our latest addition, sabawhatever, just seems to like to talk shit and hasn't contributed any kind of real discussion about anything. For shit talking he got shit talking, what does he expect? I tried to engage him on a couple points about Bush's Supreme Court nominations and the Iraq war, but he didn't make any reply. That's on him.
i think rootlesscosmo is pretty right wing. and don't forget john titor
And Mel_Gibson--no doubt a flat tax advocate and a foe of the estate tax...
Peter: Yeah well uh, I used to come into Sales once or twice a week to uhh rent movies from his uh back room. You know what I mean? Room for uh adults only, catch my drift? The uh you know, kind of movies where there uh x-rated pornos and fully nude people fornicate for the camera and stuff comes out, get my meaning?
Desk clerk: Oh i'm sorry but LackLuster Video takes a strong moral stance against Pornography, Open Mindedness[/b] and non-Christians.
Peter: Oh ya, then why do you rent out Prince of Tides? Barbara Streisan's Jewish.
4) Paul Nice seemed like a very conservative, anti-communist, etc. person. He hasn't posted that much lately, probably for personal reasons. But he also seemed to stick to the record talk anyways.
While I don't feel that anybody here has ever tried to "shut me up" because of my views, I do feel that things often get out of hand with the quickness and have seen shit degenerate into an atmosphere that's extremely mean-spirited & even hateful at times. That's a huge deterrent for me right there especially given the ratio of the strut political divide & it's why you don't see me speak too often on shit of a political nature. I also came to Soul Strut to discuss music, not to spend an entire afternoon defending my world views from 98% of the forum membership. So yeah, from where I'm standing sometimes the so-called wing of "tolerance" is anything but. Though I guess that's to be expected whenever you're dealing with something of such a passionate nature.
So yeah, from where I'm standing sometimes the so-called wing of "tolerance" is anything but.
I really hate how conservatives bandy out this argument when the left-wing gets irrate about injustice, or the forray of narrow-minded views.
For the record, the left IS more tolerant in general, but like anyone, no one will tolerate everything. As a person of the left-wing persuasion, am I tolerant of racism, injustice or severe restrictions of civil liberty? Of course not!
So yeah, from where I'm standing sometimes the so-called wing of "tolerance" is anything but.
I really hate how conservatives bandy out this argument when the left-wing gets irrate about injustice, or the forray of narrow-minded views.
For the record, the left IS more tolerant in general, but like anyone, no one will tolerate everything. As a person of the left-wing persuasion, am I tolerant of racism, injustice or severe restrictions of civil liberty? Of course not!
And the left all annoy each other, which is why the other guys have had majority rule for quite a few years. And they still think like they're some redheaded stepchild.
there have been some real meaningful back and forths between vitmain, paul, motown, dan & company. and while these arguments have gone on there has always been the sub-discussion of angry frustrated knee jerk name calling back and forths. im not intelligent enough to post in the former and hesitant to post in the later, but i have appreciated some threads for the way they have forced people to sharpen their arguments up a bit.
paul, extra special thanks for schooling me a bunch of years ago in our running debate, where i realized i needed to step my research game up and not just spout shit.
would be good to hear how conservatives are feeling about gw right now, even if they agree with iraq policy.
I really hate how conservatives bandy out this argument when the left-wing gets irrate about injustice, or the forray of narrow-minded views.
For the record, the left IS more tolerant in general, but like anyone, no one will tolerate everything. As a person of the left-wing persuasion, am I tolerant of racism, injustice or severe restrictions of civil liberty? Of course not!
I suppose the left is more tolerant when they throw oreo cookies at a black republican or openly call him an Uncle Tom on their party's website? I remember just a few weeks ago when strutters barely stopped short of calling Condoleeza Rice an Aunt Jemima. It's just patheticly hypocritical sometimes. And I can't even begin to count the number of times people here have, with utter vindictiveness, attacked Christians & middle Americans (or "rednecks" if you'd prefer). "Fuck them all", as I remember one strutter in particular had so often suggested - though not always as blatantly. You'll no doubt find some sort of social justification & excuse for these examples that I've cited and proceed to give yourself and everyone here who thinks like you a free pass to continue doing the same. All I'm saying is that if you can't have a little intellectual honesty here and see that there is actually truth to what I speak, and that I'm not just parroting some conservative talking points as you would suggest, then I can't help you.
paul, extra special thanks for schooling me a bunch of years ago in our running debate, where i realized i needed to step my research game up and not just spout shit.
Well apparently Ben Kenobi took our entire back-and-forth and actually made a booklet out of it or some shit like that.
I really hate how conservatives bandy out this argument when the left-wing gets irrate about injustice, or the forray of narrow-minded views.
For the record, the left IS more tolerant in general, but like anyone, no one will tolerate everything. As a person of the left-wing persuasion, am I tolerant of racism, injustice or severe restrictions of civil liberty? Of course not!
I suppose the left is more tolerant when they throw oreo cookies at a black republican or openly call him an Uncle Tom on their party's website? I remember just a few weeks ago when strutters barely stopped short of calling Condoleeza Rice an Aunt Jemima. It's just patheticly hypocritical sometimes. And I can't even begin to count the number of times people here have, with utter vindictiveness, attacked Christians & middle Americans (or "rednecks" if you'd prefer). "Fuck them all", as I remember one strutter in particular had so often suggested - though not always as blatantly. You'll no doubt find some sort of social justification & excuse for these examples that I've cited and proceed to give yourself and everyone here who thinks like you a free pass to continue doing the same. All I'm saying is that if you can't have a little intellectual honesty here and see that there is actually truth to what I speak, and that I'm not just parroting some conservative talking points as you would suggest, then I can't help you.
In all honesty Paul, you're very close to the kind of rhetoric you just accused the Left of in the post I addressed! Does my argument count as rhetoric and yours not?
No I do not "excuse" any and every action or comment made by a person of the Left persuasion, and - with all due respect - fuck you for suggesting so, especially since you began with an attack of such actions yourself.
For the record (again), the Left should be able to call out political figures for their hypocrisy if necessary, but 'Uncle Tom' and 'Aunt Jamima' are obviously loaded terms.
I am actually a Christian (I studied theology at university, if that means anything), so I certainly don't support the Left's (often quite nasty) atacks on Christians, although I certainly do feel a space between myself and the Christian Right (as I'm sure moderate Muslims do between themselves and the Muslim 'Right', if I can use such a term).
Lastly, I don't care for your "i know exactly what you're gonna say" tone, wich is a bent of argument often assumed by BOTH sides of politics.
I remember quite a few of these discussions on the old board in the lead-up to the war when Bush Co. was riding high. Many right-wing talking points up in here. Interesting to see the mainstream media now coming around to the same conclusions many here had against the invasion(s).
"We were all (media and Democrats)duped!" Ha! I guess The New York Times and Senate/House leaders can't get access to better research than I can on Google.
Will be very interesting to see what the Bush supporters begin to say as the majority of the Republican party throws GW and Dicky to the wolves to save their Congressional seats. We're in for quite a 2006.
"We were all (media and Democrats)duped!" Ha! I guess The New York Times and Senate/House leaders can't get access to better research than I can on Google.
As far as the NYT and their reporting leading up to the war goes, one of their leading writers, Judith Miller, got exposed as being a mouthpiece for White House propaganda as many of her stories about Iraq's WMD and Nukes were based on talks with Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, and apparently no checking of his facts.
In all honesty Paul, you're very close to the kind of rhetoric you just accused the Left of in the post I addressed!
Please explain.
No I do not "excuse" any and every action or comment made by a person of the Left persuasion, and - with all due respect - fuck you for suggesting so
"Fuck you?" That's really nice. This is exactly why I don't get involved in the political discourse here.
And in regards to my "I know exactly what you're going to say tone", I really wasn't trying to suggest that you personally "excused" or condoned the examples I cited.
I was simply trying to relay the sort of "here we go again" expectedness I feel when I know a certain response is coming (again, not necessarily from you).
The kind of response that's been doled out to me & others time and time again here on soulstrut.
And it's the kind of thing that just seems to come with the territory.
But if you're seriously offended or feel that I was being presumptuous in any way, then I sincerely apologize.
Perhaps I should choose my words a little more carefully.
especially since you began with an attack of such actions yourself.
???
For the record (again), the Left should be able to call out political figures for their hypocrisy if necessary, but 'Uncle Tom' and 'Aunt Jamima' are obviously loaded terms.
Please be a little more clear here.
So you're saying that the Left should be able to call out the Right when they're being hypocritical? Or their own?
Either way I agree. And the same thing should apply in reverse.
But what do you mean that "Uncle Tom" and "Aunt Jamima" are "obviously loaded terms"?
You certainly don't condone it, do you?
I am actually a Christian (I studied theology at university, if that means anything), so I certainly don't support the Left's (often quite nasty) atacks on Christians, although I certainly do feel a space between myself and the Christian Right (as I'm sure moderate Muslims do between themselves and the Muslim 'Right', if I can use such a term).
Well, I'm not religious at all (I'd probably consider myself agnostic), and I think I'm experienced enough to realize that there are good & bad people from every corner of the globe and from every religious persuasion.
However, for all the years that I've been coming to soulstrut I'm constantly reminded of the out & out anti-Christian slant that many members here seem to share.
Some members I happen to know very well and consider them to be good friends & just generally good people.
Regardless, I think it constitutes a certain lack of "tolerance" which also seems to entail other sectors of society or points of view that aren't ideologically in step with the soulstrut intelligentsia.
This was my whole point in the first place and why I brought it up.
"Besides Rove and Libby, the group included senior White House aides Karen Hughes, Mary Matalin, James Wilkinson, Nicholas Calio, Condoleezza Rice and Stephen Hadley. WHIG also was doing more than just public relations, said a second former intel officer.
"They were funneling information to [New York Times reporter] Judy Miller. Judy was a charter member," the source said."
So yeah, from where I'm standing sometimes the so-called wing of "tolerance" is anything but.
True, per the examples you listed in a later post. Similarly, sometimes the so-called wing of morality and restraint is anything but.
The reason? Politics have a nasty way of really winding people up (and, it's worth pointing out, tempers are running even shorter these days in no small part due to the strategy of intense partisanship and polarization that the current administration has made an integral part of its strategy). Like I said before, I enjoy reasonable, levelheaded political discussion, but that has become a lot harder to come by of late, and there's only so much, "You're a [fill in invective here] for not agreeing with Bush!" I can take before I start to fire back in kind. And I suppose that by firing back, I become part of the problem because I'm contributing to the rancor.
I also think a major part of the problem is the often irresistable and knee-jerk temptation to paint with a broad brush. "The left" is not made up entirely of people who want to throw Oreos at Black Republicans. "The right" is not made up entirely of rich, greedy warmongerers. Christians are not all Dobsonite wackos (though I will say for the record that I really can't fucking stand Dobsonites), and Muslims are not all aspiring suicide bombers. Every part of the spectrum has its loonies, and every step of the way, people are expected to disown the nuttier factions of their side, which is rather silly.
Comments
2) Vitamin always put up a huge fight over his ideas, which basically were only on one point: a Neoconservatives argument for the Iraq war. He doesn't post much because he moved to Egypt, not because he gave up on the Strut or got tired of the arguments.
3) the3rdstream is still here posting as usual. Like Vitamin, he usually just threw in a few comments about supporting the war, but otherwise I don't remember him voicing any other conservatives ideas.
4) Paul Nice seemed like a very conservative, anti-communist, etc. person. He hasn't posted that much lately, probably for personal reasons. But he also seemed to stick to the record talk anyways.
Other than that there's only been a few other people who I can remember voicing conervatives or Republican ideas. Our latest addition, sabawhatever, just seems to like to talk shit and hasn't contributed any kind of real discussion about anything. For shit talking he got shit talking, what does he expect? I tried to engage him on a couple points about Bush's Supreme Court nominations and the Iraq war, but he didn't make any reply. That's on him.
Agreed
so true.
motown you're indepth analysis is always on point and much appreciated.. i havent seen anny semblance of a flip side to that coin from any of these so called conservative strutters.
A shocking departure from character for the thread's progenitor...
silence infidel
In my original post I stated that I thought we should give those with differing opinions a better chance to speak. I said this thread was more a comment than a quesiton to ask. There was no firestarting meant by it.
Do I know you? You remind me of someone.
i think rootlesscosmo is pretty right wing. and don't forget john titor
I agree...how about a new forum "Conservative Thoughts Revealed". I can hear the crickets from here.
If there is any instance of people being 'silenced' due to their point of view or politics, this is an issue to take up w/ the moderators. Is there an example you want to share with the class?
How are people NOT being allowed to speak?
that shits funny where is that from ?
Perhaps you've encountered some of my previous 7414 works...
And Mel_Gibson--no doubt a flat tax advocate and a foe of the estate tax...
The Family Guy movie.
bsolutely killer, but loads of references to all the diff family guy seasons, so watch them before you watch the movie.
While I don't feel that anybody here has ever tried to "shut me up" because of my views, I do feel that things often get out of hand with the quickness
and have seen shit degenerate into an atmosphere that's extremely mean-spirited & even hateful at times.
That's a huge deterrent for me right there especially given the ratio of the strut political divide & it's why you don't see me speak too often on shit of a political nature.
I also came to Soul Strut to discuss music, not to spend an entire afternoon defending my world views from 98% of the forum membership.
So yeah, from where I'm standing sometimes the so-called wing of "tolerance" is anything but.
Though I guess that's to be expected whenever you're dealing with something of such a passionate nature.
I really hate how conservatives bandy out this argument when the left-wing gets irrate about injustice, or the forray of narrow-minded views.
For the record, the left IS more tolerant in general, but like anyone, no one will tolerate everything. As a person of the left-wing persuasion, am I tolerant of racism, injustice or severe restrictions of civil liberty? Of course not!
And the left all annoy each other, which is why the other guys have had majority rule for quite a few years. And they still think like they're some redheaded stepchild.
paul, extra special thanks for schooling me a bunch of years ago in our running debate, where i realized i needed to step my research game up and not just spout shit.
would be good to hear how conservatives are feeling about gw right now, even if they agree with iraq policy.
I suppose the left is more tolerant when they throw oreo cookies at a black republican or openly call him an Uncle Tom on their party's website?
I remember just a few weeks ago when strutters barely stopped short of calling Condoleeza Rice an Aunt Jemima. It's just patheticly hypocritical sometimes.
And I can't even begin to count the number of times people here have, with utter vindictiveness, attacked Christians & middle Americans (or "rednecks" if you'd prefer).
"Fuck them all", as I remember one strutter in particular had so often suggested - though not always as blatantly.
You'll no doubt find some sort of social justification & excuse for these examples that I've cited and proceed to give yourself and everyone here who thinks like you
a free pass to continue doing the same.
All I'm saying is that if you can't have a little intellectual honesty here and see that there is actually truth to what I speak, and that I'm not just parroting some conservative talking points as you would suggest, then I can't help you.
Well apparently Ben Kenobi took our entire back-and-forth and actually made a booklet out of it or some shit like that.
That scares me!
In all honesty Paul, you're very close to the kind of rhetoric you just accused the Left of in the post I addressed! Does my argument count as rhetoric and yours not?
No I do not "excuse" any and every action or comment made by a person of the Left persuasion, and - with all due respect - fuck you for suggesting so, especially since you began with an attack of such actions yourself.
For the record (again), the Left should be able to call out political figures for their hypocrisy if necessary, but 'Uncle Tom' and 'Aunt Jamima' are obviously loaded terms.
I am actually a Christian (I studied theology at university, if that means anything), so I certainly don't support the Left's (often quite nasty) atacks on Christians, although I certainly do feel a space between myself and the Christian Right (as I'm sure moderate Muslims do between themselves and the Muslim 'Right', if I can use such a term).
Lastly, I don't care for your "i know exactly what you're gonna say" tone, wich is a bent of argument often assumed by BOTH sides of politics.
"We were all (media and Democrats)duped!" Ha! I guess The New York Times and Senate/House leaders can't get access to better research than I can on Google.
Will be very interesting to see what the Bush supporters begin to say as the majority of the Republican party throws GW and Dicky to the wolves to save their Congressional seats. We're in for quite a 2006.
Peace,
Cortez
As far as the NYT and their reporting leading up to the war goes, one of their leading writers, Judith Miller, got exposed as being a mouthpiece for White House propaganda as many of her stories about Iraq's WMD and Nukes were based on talks with Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, and apparently no checking of his facts.
Please explain.
"Fuck you?" That's really nice. This is exactly why I don't get involved in the political discourse here.
And in regards to my "I know exactly what you're going to say tone", I really wasn't trying to suggest that you personally "excused" or condoned the examples I cited.
I was simply trying to relay the sort of "here we go again" expectedness I feel when I know a certain response is coming (again, not necessarily from you).
The kind of response that's been doled out to me & others time and time again here on soulstrut.
And it's the kind of thing that just seems to come with the territory.
But if you're seriously offended or feel that I was being presumptuous in any way, then I sincerely apologize.
Perhaps I should choose my words a little more carefully.
???
Please be a little more clear here.
So you're saying that the Left should be able to call out the Right when they're being hypocritical? Or their own?
Either way I agree. And the same thing should apply in reverse.
But what do you mean that "Uncle Tom" and "Aunt Jamima" are "obviously loaded terms"?
You certainly don't condone it, do you?
Well, I'm not religious at all (I'd probably consider myself agnostic), and I think I'm experienced enough to realize that there are good & bad people from every corner of the globe and from every religious persuasion.
However, for all the years that I've been coming to soulstrut I'm constantly reminded of the out & out anti-Christian slant that many members here seem to share.
Some members I happen to know very well and consider them to be good friends & just generally good people.
Regardless, I think it constitutes a certain lack of "tolerance" which also seems to entail other sectors of society or points of view that aren't ideologically in step with the soulstrut intelligentsia.
This was my whole point in the first place and why I brought it up.
"They were funneling information to [New York Times reporter] Judy Miller. Judy was a charter member," the source said."
True, per the examples you listed in a later post. Similarly, sometimes the so-called wing of morality and restraint is anything but.
The reason? Politics have a nasty way of really winding people up (and, it's worth pointing out, tempers are running even shorter these days in no small part due to the strategy of intense partisanship and polarization that the current administration has made an integral part of its strategy). Like I said before, I enjoy reasonable, levelheaded political discussion, but that has become a lot harder to come by of late, and there's only so much, "You're a [fill in invective here] for not agreeing with Bush!" I can take before I start to fire back in kind. And I suppose that by firing back, I become part of the problem because I'm contributing to the rancor.
I also think a major part of the problem is the often irresistable and knee-jerk temptation to paint with a broad brush. "The left" is not made up entirely of people who want to throw Oreos at Black Republicans. "The right" is not made up entirely of rich, greedy warmongerers. Christians are not all Dobsonite wackos (though I will say for the record that I really can't fucking stand Dobsonites), and Muslims are not all aspiring suicide bombers. Every part of the spectrum has its loonies, and every step of the way, people are expected to disown the nuttier factions of their side, which is rather silly.