So yeah, from where I'm standing sometimes the so-called wing of "tolerance" is anything but.
True, per the examples you listed in a later post. Similarly, sometimes the so-called wing of morality and restraint is anything but.
The reason? Politics have a nasty way of really winding people up (and, it's worth pointing out, tempers are running even shorter these days in no small part due to the strategy of intense partisanship and polarization that the current administration has made an integral part of its strategy). Like I said before, I enjoy reasonable, levelheaded political discussion, but that has become a lot harder to come by of late, and there's only so much, "You're a [fill in invective here] for not agreeing with Bush!" I can take before I start to fire back in kind. And I suppose that by firing back, I become part of the problem because I'm contributing to the rancor.
I also think a major part of the problem is the often irresistable and knee-jerk temptation to paint with a broad brush. "The left" is not made up entirely of people who want to throw Oreos at Black Republicans. "The right" is not made up entirely of rich, greedy warmongerers. Christians are not all Dobsonite wackos (though I will say for the record that I really can't fucking stand Dobsonites), and Muslims are not all aspiring suicide bombers. Every part of the spectrum has its loonies, and every step of the way, people are expected to disown the nuttier factions of their side, which is rather silly.
I remember quite a few of these discussions on the old board in the lead-up to the war when Bush Co. was riding high. Many right-wing talking points up in here. Interesting to see the mainstream media now coming around to the same conclusions many here had against the invasion(s).
"We were all (media and Democrats)duped!" Ha! I guess The New York Times and Senate/House leaders can't get access to better research than I can on Google.
Peace, Cortez
True that. The NY Times, Tony Blair, and the Democratic Party's blind following of the Bush administration allow the right to get away with saying "everyone belived what we belived". The hell I did!
there's only so much, "You're a [fill in invective here] for not agreeing with Bush!" I can take before I start to fire back in kind.
Funny, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone on this board come out with anything remotely similar to "You're a [fill in invective here] for not agreeing with Bush!" And it's soultrut, after all which is the topic of discussion in regards to "open mindedness". But, yes. I agree with everything you've said. I'm afraid the old adage of never discussing religion or politics will hold true until the end of time. With a little luck I can adhere to it and get to bed soon.
there's only so much, "You're a [fill in invective here] for not agreeing with Bush!" I can take before I start to fire back in kind.
Funny, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone on this board come out with anything remotely similar to "You're a [fill in invective here] for not agreeing with Bush!"
No, you're right, I've never had that said to me on SS. Elsewhere, oh hell yeah, but not here. I suppose I should've clarified that.
Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In all honesty Paul, you're very close to the kind of rhetoric you just accused the Left of in the post I addressed! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please explain.
Paul, you made a comment that the Left is anything but tolerent, and you implied that the Left is often quick to ostracise members of politics, especially those on the Right, or those who they deem to be hypocritical. But you then demonstrated your own intolerance for the left with comments like "You'll no doubt find some sort of social justification & excuse for these examples that I've cited and proceed to give yourself and everyone here who thinks like you a free pass to continue doing the same." I find this a bit inconsistant.
"Fuck you?" That's really nice. This is exactly why I don't get involved in the political discourse here.
And in regards to my "I know exactly what you're going to say tone", I really wasn't trying to suggest that you personally "excused" or condoned the examples I cited. I was simply trying to relay the sort of "here we go again" expectedness I feel when I know a certain response is coming (again, not necessarily from you). The kind of response that's been doled out to me & others time and time again here on soulstrut. And it's the kind of thing that just seems to come with the territory. But if you're seriously offended or feel that I was being presumptuous in any way, then I sincerely apologize. Perhaps I should choose my words a little more carefully.
I used a profanity to express a point there, and I did balance it with a comment about no disrespect. We both have a sense of "here we go again", but for me, this is precisely what bogs down these discussions: pretending we know what the other side will say, or preempting arguments as "tired" in order to discredit them. If we listened to each other, I think we would find there is much more productive dialogue that could occur. And also, I do think that for the ost part, the Left is more given to this, though it is buy no means beyond the lowest-common-denominator drivel as well!
Please be a little more clear here. So you're saying that the Left should be able to call out the Right when they're being hypocritical? Or their own? Either way I agree. And the same thing should apply in reverse. But what do you mean that "Uncle Tom" and "Aunt Jamima" are "obviously loaded terms"? You certainly don't condone it, do you?
Both, of course. I don't think terms like 'Uncle Tom' or 'Aunt jamima' are helpful, but a desire to uncover a hidden agenda (which is the root of such terms) is a valid and necessary thing.
Well, I'm not religious at all (I'd probably consider myself agnostic), and I think I'm experienced enough to realize that there are good & bad people from every corner of the globe and from every religious persuasion. However, for all the years that I've been coming to soulstrut I'm constantly reminded of the out & out anti-Christian slant that many members here seem to share. Some members I happen to know very well and consider them to be good friends & just generally good people. Regardless, I think it constitutes a certain lack of "tolerance" which also seems to entail other sectors of society or points of view that aren't ideologically in step with the soulstrut intelligesia. This was my whole point in the first place and why I brought it up.
Well said. I don't think i need to add anything to that!
I also find it very difficult to believe that management would not be up on Judy and her "contacts". These are some of the largest and most influential news stories of our lifetime. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of lives, were at stake. Not to mention hundreds of billions of dollars.
"I suggest that Times management???Keller, Sulzberger???was embedded in the disinformation campaign run by the White House Iraq Group, that Miller was their operative, and Libby was their handler. Of course, their White House handler wouldn't have been crass enough to offer them money; the access to power, and the promise of scoops, would have been enough. The scoops were to come from Chalabi. (It doesn't matter whether the White House still had faith in Chalabi; what matters is that the Times did)."
And more speculation:
Judith Miller is Unnamed Woman in AIPAC Spy Ring Indictment -
AIPAC is probably the largest story of the last couple years but gets little press. Too hot to handle. Difficult to discuss without getting blown up on some "anti-semite" business.
Hahaha, I used that entire monologue by Jazzy on an old mixtape. Shit was so clownin'.
"Now remember, everybody, I want you to seduce the music. Work it like it's yo' bitch. Slap it! It will respond. Show that music who has the upper hand by giving it the back of your hand. I remember, Charlie Parker once said to me, 'Jazzy, shut up and give me some heroin.' Now let's get on out there and score!"
4) Paul Nice seemed like a very conservative, anti-communist, etc. person. He hasn't posted that much lately, probably for personal reasons. But he also seemed to stick to the record talk anyways.
While I don't feel that anybody here has ever tried to "shut me up" because of my views, I do feel that things often get out of hand with the quickness and have seen shit degenerate into an atmosphere that's extremely mean-spirited & even hateful at times. That's a huge deterrent for me right there especially given the ratio of the strut political divide & it's why you don't see me speak too often on shit of a political nature. I also came to Soul Strut to discuss music, not to spend an entire afternoon defending my world views from 98% of the forum membership. So yeah, from where I'm standing sometimes the so-called wing of "tolerance" is anything but. Though I guess that's to be expected whenever you're dealing with something of such a passionate nature.
This is a general response to the thread.
Most of the time, when someone posts a well thought out right wing view, most of the responses will be well thought out. It might seem like we are trying to run someone off the board because for every defender of the war in Iraq there are ten people ready to post a response.
We all know that you could post that you ate lunch at 12:30 and get replys calling you an asshole for eating lunch, another saying fuck anyone who eats at 12:30. That's the way of the strut. This is double true if Guzzo was the one who ate lunch.
I've enjoyed many of our political debates here. I like and respect the other side even though I do get heated. I like getting heated.
Some on the right on soulstrut can not post up any thing more cohearent than, "They tried to kill us first". Same with some on the left.
I also enjoy the race discussions, even though they tend to be petty and stupid like the recent scarecrow meltdown. I do not bring any credentials beyond a life time of trying to understand race in America to the discussion. I sometimes feel redicules knowing that people who have suffered from systematic racism their whole lives are hearing me comment on how they feel.
Vitamin has recently been in Jordan where he was reporting on the bombings. He is emersing himself in Muslim/Egyptian culture now living in Cairo. He is soaking in Egyptian jazz and contemporary dance music. He has yet to realize the folly of his views. But he is smart, give him time.
Paul, I think most of us are very tolerent of your views, we just disagree. Because this is soulstut you will be attacked personally and obscenely. The same happens in music threads.
As for Christians, I have a big problem with the left's attacks on Christians. I have a bigger problem with people calling themselves Christians attacking our rights and trying to take over our goverment and use our goverment as a platform to evangilize to, school children, adults, our military and the Muslim world.
I am less worried about the seperation of church and state, and more worried about the seperation of God from the churches trying to influence our goverment.
I am very opinionated and not afraid to state my views.
I have an open mind and have changed my views on many subjects including; capitol punishment, passivism, invading Somalia and evolution.
As for Christians, I have a big problem with the left's attacks on Christians. I have a bigger problem with people calling themselves Christians attacking our rights and trying to take over our goverment and use our goverment as a platform to evangilize to, school children, adults, our military and the Muslim world.
I am less worried about the seperation of church and state, and more worried about the seperation of God from the churches trying to influence our goverment.
I couldn't agree more with this statement.
And props for a really well-thought out response to this situation generally. I think this kind of post already demonstartes a open-minded approach to things.
Hate to break in here guys, but I think you forgot to mention the racial intolerance angle. By that, I mean that by being intolerant of political views, what you're really saying is that minorities are inferior. I find the right is particularly discriminatory in this manner, however, I see some of the racial discrepancies in your arguments on Soulstrut. Your vieled references to striking down Affirmative Action are especially disturbing, particularly when it's well known many of your political stances are already not pro-active in the quest for reparations for slavery. And how you can ignore slavery reparations while "big upping" reparations made to holocaust survivors is just disgusting - as if the light-skinned don't already have it good as is.
I think many of you need to take a good look in the mirror and realize how pampered you truly are.
Hate to break in here guys, but I think you forgot to mention the racial intolerance angle. By that, I mean that by being intolerant of political views, what you're really saying is that minorities are inferior. I find the right is particularly discriminatory in this manner, however, I see some of the racial discrepancies in your arguments on Soulstrut. Your vieled references to striking down Affirmative Action are especially disturbing, particularly when it's well known many of your political stances are already not pro-active in the quest for reparations for slavery. And how you can ignore slavery reparations while "big upping" reparations made to holocaust survivors is just disgusting - as if the light-skinned don't already have it good as is.
I think many of you need to take a good look in the mirror and realize how pampered you truly are.
WOW! Is this directed at me? Most of this is incohearent:
By that, I mean that by being intolerant of political views, what you're really saying is that minorities are inferior.
I hope you don't think I have made vieled references to striking down affirmative action. I also don't ever remember anyone discussing reparations for salvery. If there are strutters opposed to reparations I would like to hear their reasons. Has some one big upped reparations to holcaust survivors? By the way, my mother, as a holocaust survivor, recieves a check from the Austrian goverment. Which is iroinic because she does not think of herself as a holocaust survivor.
I'll give you pampered. I just put on skin lotion and it's all citrus smelly.
Paul, you made a comment that the Left is anything but tolerent,
Actually, what I said was, "So yeah, from where I'm standing sometimes the so-called wing of "tolerance" is anything but."
Note the word "sometimes". You seem to be taking what I said in absolutes.
And I stand by my statement. Particularly when it comes to this board - which is really what I was talking in the first place, seeing as this thread is entitled "open minded strut?".
and you implied that the Left is often quick to ostracise (sic) members of politics, especially those on the Right, or those who they deem to be hypocritical. But you then demonstrated your own intolerance for the left with comments like "You'll no doubt find some sort of social justification & excuse for these examples that I've cited and proceed to give yourself and everyone here who thinks like you
a free pass to continue doing the same." I find this a bit inconsistant.
Well, what can I say. I speak from personal experience.
That kind of shit used to happen to me all the time here.
If you want to read into that as being "intolerant", then that's on you.
Although I really don't see how one would.
Presumptious perhaps. But intolerant? Hardly.
Also, you replied to my initial post with quote, "I really hate how conservatives bandy out this argument when the left-wing gets irrate about injustice, or the forray of narrow-minded views."
I'm sorry to say that there is most definitely a large contingent here who seem to have very little if any tolerance for anything that doesn't fall within the soulstrut political party lines, so to speak.
You can "hate" how I "bandy out this argument" all day if you like but it's true.
(which by the way, never mentioned ANYTHING about "when the left-wing gets irrate about injustice, or the forray of narrow-minded views")
"Fuck you?" That's really nice. This is exactly why I don't get involved in the political discourse here.
I used a profanity to express a point there, and I did balance it with a comment about no disrespect.
Oh well that's better. In that case, with all due respect, fuck you too!
We both have a sense of "here we go again", but for me, this is precisely what bogs down these discussions: pretending we know what the other side will say, or preempting arguments as "tired" in order to discredit them.
Again, I wasn't "pretending to know what the other side will say". The other side has been saying the same thing to me for over four years here!
Am I supposed to just ignore that fact?
If we listened to each other, I think we would find there is much more productive dialogue that could occur. And also, I do think that for the ost part, the Left is more given to this, though it is buy no means beyond the lowest-common-denominator drivel as well!
You know what, that may very well be true (though certainly on this board it's not).
All I was trying to say from the jump was that I've personally experienced a certain amount of intolerance right here in the form of mean spirited & vindictive attacks.
That's all. But I saw nothing in your initial response that would concur with that.
To the contrary you made some broad generalization about how conservatives use talking points whenever liberals speak the truth.
I don't think terms like 'Uncle Tom' or 'Aunt jamima' are helpful, but a desire to uncover a hidden agenda (which is the root of such terms) is a valid and necessary thing.
So in other words, black conservatives cannot honestly & legitimately have differing points of views or values without having a "hidden agenda"?
This is the kind of thing I mean.
But I'm glad that you think such terms like "Uncle Tom" & "Aunt Jemima" are not "helpful".
Paul Nice[/b]: Thank you for dropping your 2 cents in this, you've always come across as very level headed in all political discussions on this board. I kinda miss seeing that from you and other conservatives on here and I guess thats the reason I started this post.
By no means do I call myself a democrat or republican although I'd say my views are very much to the left, however I love hearing other peoples views and gaining perspective from what they had to say. Hoppefully this thread opened some of that up and other conservatives won't be so afraid to speak on issues in the future
Paul Nice Thank you for dropping your 2 cents in this, you've always come across as very level headed in all political discussions I've seenyou involved in on this board. I kinda miss seeing that and I guess thats the reason I started this post.
I realize that and appreciate it. And the reason I'm not up in these discussions any more is because I feel that too many folks are too quick to be like "fuck you" instead of just debating the issue. I don't need that in my life.
Paul Nice Thank you for dropping your 2 cents in this, you've always come across as very level headed in all political discussions I've seenyou involved in on this board. I kinda miss seeing that and I guess thats the reason I started this post.
I realize that and appreciate it. And the reason I'm not up in these discussions any more is because I feel that too many folks are too quick to be like "fuck you" instead of just debating the issue. I don't need that in my life.
Paul Nice Thank you for dropping your 2 cents in this, you've always come across as very level headed in all political discussions I've seenyou involved in on this board. I kinda miss seeing that and I guess thats the reason I started this post.
I realize that and appreciate it. And the reason I'm not up in these discussions any more is because I feel that too many folks are too quick to be like "fuck you" instead of just debating the issue. I don't need that in my life.
Yeah P**o we went over that a bit when I saw you in Phoenix, I am not down with the idea of shutting up those who come across with a different viewpoint. I appreciate both you and Paul's ability to bite your toungue when folks jump down your throat, just know that if this board ever becomes tolerant enough to accept that others have differing viewpoints I'll be reading your responses and hopefully learning something from them.
tripping dude. cite your source or fall the fuck back.
Ha! Heeeere we go!
I think he was referring to your hawkish stance on Israel, and against "terrorism".
I kinda picked that up too, these days there are lots of folks who are economically and socially liberal, yet very conservative when it comes to middle east affairs.
best to take away the idea of thinking differntly before one can understand what it is.
"together we are one"
You're way out of line with that jpeg.
Nobody's "silencing" the board's more conservative members. What you seem to be arguing for is a subsidy of ideas: that these peoples' viewpoints should be exempt from criticism.
BIG cosign. As someone that's gotten into it with the "conservatives" on this board on a regular basis, I can tell you that I'm as eager to hear a reasoned argument from the right for ANY of their policies. However, I have no obligation to sit idly by and listen to someone spout the latest bullshit Republican talking points without making some kind of counter statement. The Republicans have worked in disinformation/obfuscation far too long without some kind of response. In the rare moments when they are called on their lies, they start crying about how they can't get a word in edgewise and no one has respect for their point of view (which as someone in this thread stated, is ludicrous since they control the government and much of the public discourse in the so-called "liberal media"). Nobody has any obligation to respect the point of view of a group of people who's views are diametrically opposed to their own. If I know someone is an anti-Semite, I don't sit there and try to take their point of view into account because I know it's abhorrent. The same goes for the guy that's trying to take over my local school board so he can strike evolution from the textbooks, or ban Halloween parties because they're "occult", or any other "Christian" mumbo jumbo. I have no problem with Christians that bother to act in a manner that reflects the actions of Christ. I was raised Roman Catholic by a father that spent years in the seminary (and have read, and strangely enough understood the New Testament). I know "real" Christians, and have love and respect for them. I know the difference between these people and the Dobsons, Fallwells and Robertsons of the world (and the politicians that pander to them). When it comes to Bush and the neo-cons, I see what they are doing as destroying the country. They have no respect for the constitution or law in general when it doesn't conform to their plans. I have a hard time dealing with people that claim to be intelligent yet can't see these things. It suggests to me a certain disingenuousness, or at least a willingness to suspend disbelief for reasons I can't comprehend. As far as conservative-leaning posters on this board go, they're not all the same (and neither are the left-leaners either). Vitamin/Eli is a very intelligent guy who just happens to have swallowed the neo-con BS hook, line and sinker. He's does not appear to be a social conservative. As much as I've argued with him, I miss his presence. Most of the others have been fairly cool. Sabadabada (sp?) basically talks a lot of shit, sounds like he stays up late to watch Bill O'Reilly and when cornered resorts to personal attacks. He can eat a dick.
Comments
I'm all over the place with my opinions/stances/politics.
But shoot me...
I am an economical conservative (Yes... flat-tax will kill you while u sleep).
But alas, never judge a book by it's cover.
Just remember... "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in awhile, you could miss it"
PS - I don't like religion in any way in my politics (But get ur religion on if thats what does it for you).
On a side note, two things:
Como se dice "classic?"
True that. The NY Times, Tony Blair, and the Democratic Party's blind following of the Bush administration allow the right to get away with saying "everyone belived what we belived". The hell I did!
Dan
Funny, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone on this board come out with anything remotely similar to "You're a [fill in invective here] for not agreeing with Bush!"
And it's soultrut, after all which is the topic of discussion in regards to "open mindedness".
But, yes. I agree with everything you've said.
I'm afraid the old adage of never discussing religion or politics will hold true until the end of time.
With a little luck I can adhere to it and get to bed soon.
No, you're right, I've never had that said to me on SS. Elsewhere, oh hell yeah, but not here. I suppose I should've clarified that.
a free pass to continue doing the same." I find this a bit inconsistant.
I used a profanity to express a point there, and I did balance it with a comment about no disrespect. We both have a sense of "here we go again", but for me, this is precisely what bogs down these discussions: pretending we know what the other side will say, or preempting arguments as "tired" in order to discredit them. If we listened to each other, I think we would find there is much more productive dialogue that could occur. And also, I do think that for the ost part, the Left is more given to this, though it is buy no means beyond the lowest-common-denominator drivel as well!
Both, of course. I don't think terms like 'Uncle Tom' or 'Aunt jamima' are helpful, but a desire to uncover a hidden agenda (which is the root of such terms) is a valid and necessary thing.
Well said. I don't think i need to add anything to that!
I also find it very difficult to believe that management would not be up on Judy and her "contacts". These are some of the largest and most influential news stories of our lifetime. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of lives, were at stake. Not to mention hundreds of billions of dollars.
"I suggest that Times management???Keller, Sulzberger???was embedded in the disinformation campaign run by the White House Iraq Group, that Miller was their operative, and Libby was their handler. Of course, their White House handler wouldn't have been crass enough to offer them money; the access to power, and the promise of scoops, would have been enough. The scoops were to come from Chalabi. (It doesn't matter whether the White House still had faith in Chalabi; what matters is that the Times did)."
And more speculation:
Judith Miller is Unnamed Woman in AIPAC Spy Ring Indictment -
AIPAC is probably the largest story of the last couple years but gets little press. Too hot to handle. Difficult to discuss without getting blown up on some "anti-semite" business.
Peace,
Cortez
haha oh shit.
---
Hahaha, I used that entire monologue by Jazzy on an old mixtape. Shit was so clownin'.
"Now remember, everybody, I want you to seduce the music. Work it like it's yo' bitch. Slap it! It will respond. Show that music who has the upper hand by giving it the back of your hand. I remember, Charlie Parker once said to me, 'Jazzy, shut up and give me some heroin.' Now let's get on out there and score!"
This is a general response to the thread.
Most of the time, when someone posts a well thought out right wing view, most of the responses will be well thought out. It might seem like we are trying to run someone off the board because for every defender of the war in Iraq there are ten people ready to post a response.
We all know that you could post that you ate lunch at 12:30 and get replys calling you an asshole for eating lunch, another saying fuck anyone who eats at 12:30. That's the way of the strut. This is double true if Guzzo was the one who ate lunch.
I've enjoyed many of our political debates here. I like and respect the other side even though I do get heated. I like getting heated.
Some on the right on soulstrut can not post up any thing more cohearent than, "They tried to kill us first". Same with some on the left.
I also enjoy the race discussions, even though they tend to be petty and stupid like the recent scarecrow meltdown. I do not bring any credentials beyond a life time of trying to understand race in America to the discussion. I sometimes feel redicules knowing that people who have suffered from systematic racism their whole lives are hearing me comment on how they feel.
Vitamin has recently been in Jordan where he was reporting on the bombings. He is emersing himself in Muslim/Egyptian culture now living in Cairo. He is soaking in Egyptian jazz and contemporary dance music. He has yet to realize the folly of his views. But he is smart, give him time.
Paul, I think most of us are very tolerent of your views, we just disagree. Because this is soulstut you will be attacked personally and obscenely. The same happens in music threads.
As for Christians, I have a big problem with the left's attacks on Christians. I have a bigger problem with people calling themselves Christians attacking our rights and trying to take over our goverment and use our goverment as a platform to evangilize to, school children, adults, our military and the Muslim world.
I am less worried about the seperation of church and state, and more worried about the seperation of God from the churches trying to influence our goverment.
I am very opinionated and not afraid to state my views.
I have an open mind and have changed my views on many subjects including; capitol punishment, passivism, invading Somalia and evolution.
I can't spell.
Dan
I couldn't agree more with this statement.
And props for a really well-thought out response to this situation generally. I think this kind of post already demonstartes a open-minded approach to things.
I think many of you need to take a good look in the mirror and realize how pampered you truly are.
WOW! Is this directed at me? Most of this is incohearent:
I hope you don't think I have made vieled references to striking down affirmative action. I also don't ever remember anyone discussing reparations for salvery. If there are strutters opposed to reparations I would like to hear their reasons. Has some one big upped reparations to holcaust survivors? By the way, my mother, as a holocaust survivor, recieves a check from the Austrian goverment. Which is iroinic because she does not think of herself as a holocaust survivor.
I'll give you pampered. I just put on skin lotion and it's all citrus smelly.
Dan
Somehow, you've made that sound very erotic.
Actually, what I said was, "So yeah, from where I'm standing sometimes the so-called wing of "tolerance" is anything but."
Note the word "sometimes". You seem to be taking what I said in absolutes.
And I stand by my statement. Particularly when it comes to this board - which is really what I was talking in the first place, seeing as this thread is entitled "open minded strut?".
Well, what can I say. I speak from personal experience.
That kind of shit used to happen to me all the time here.
If you want to read into that as being "intolerant", then that's on you.
Although I really don't see how one would.
Presumptious perhaps. But intolerant? Hardly.
Also, you replied to my initial post with quote, "I really hate how conservatives bandy out this argument when the left-wing gets irrate about injustice, or the forray of narrow-minded views."
I'm sorry to say that there is most definitely a large contingent here who seem to have very little if any tolerance for anything that doesn't fall within the soulstrut political party lines, so to speak.
You can "hate" how I "bandy out this argument" all day if you like but it's true.
(which by the way, never mentioned ANYTHING about "when the left-wing gets irrate about injustice, or the forray of narrow-minded views")
Oh well that's better. In that case, with all due respect, fuck you too!
Again, I wasn't "pretending to know what the other side will say". The other side has been saying the same thing to me for over four years here!
Am I supposed to just ignore that fact?
You know what, that may very well be true (though certainly on this board it's not).
All I was trying to say from the jump was that I've personally experienced a certain amount of intolerance right here in the form of mean spirited & vindictive attacks.
That's all. But I saw nothing in your initial response that would concur with that.
To the contrary you made some broad generalization about how conservatives use talking points whenever liberals speak the truth.
So in other words, black conservatives cannot honestly & legitimately have differing points of views or values without having a "hidden agenda"?
This is the kind of thing I mean.
But I'm glad that you think such terms like "Uncle Tom" & "Aunt Jemima" are not "helpful".
That's very good of you.
By no means do I call myself a democrat or republican although I'd say my views are very much to the left, however I love hearing other peoples views and gaining perspective from what they had to say. Hoppefully this thread opened some of that up and other conservatives won't be so afraid to speak on issues in the future
Which, after all, is just a form of intolerence.
Y'all kept your cool.
I realize that and appreciate it.
And the reason I'm not up in these discussions any more is because I feel that too many folks are too quick to be like "fuck you" instead of just debating the issue.
I don't need that in my life.
Yeah P**o we went over that a bit when I saw you in Phoenix, I am not down with the idea of shutting up those who come across with a different viewpoint. I appreciate both you and Paul's ability to bite your toungue when folks jump down your throat, just know that if this board ever becomes tolerant enough to accept that others have differing viewpoints I'll be reading your responses and hopefully learning something from them.
Lets play
prank call thread yo
tripping dude. cite your source or fall the fuck back.
Ha! Heeeere we go!
I think he was referring to your hawkish stance on Israel, and against "terrorism".
I kinda picked that up too, these days there are lots of folks who are economically and socially liberal, yet very conservative when it comes to middle east affairs.
BIG cosign.
As someone that's gotten into it with the "conservatives" on this board on a regular basis, I can tell you that I'm as eager to hear a reasoned argument from the right for ANY of their policies. However, I have no obligation to sit idly by and listen to someone spout the latest bullshit Republican talking points without making some kind of counter statement.
The Republicans have worked in disinformation/obfuscation far too long without some kind of response. In the rare moments when they are called on their lies, they start crying about how they can't get a word in edgewise and no one has respect for their point of view (which as someone in this thread stated, is ludicrous since they control the government and much of the public discourse in the so-called "liberal media").
Nobody has any obligation to respect the point of view of a group of people who's views are diametrically opposed to their own. If I know someone is an anti-Semite, I don't sit there and try to take their point of view into account because I know it's abhorrent.
The same goes for the guy that's trying to take over my local school board so he can strike evolution from the textbooks, or ban Halloween parties because they're "occult", or any other "Christian" mumbo jumbo. I have no problem with Christians that bother to act in a manner that reflects the actions of Christ.
I was raised Roman Catholic by a father that spent years in the seminary (and have read, and strangely enough understood the New Testament). I know "real" Christians, and have love and respect for them. I know the difference between these people and the Dobsons, Fallwells and Robertsons of the world (and the politicians that pander to them).
When it comes to Bush and the neo-cons, I see what they are doing as destroying the country. They have no respect for the constitution or law in general when it doesn't conform to their plans. I have a hard time dealing with people that claim to be intelligent yet can't see these things. It suggests to me a certain disingenuousness, or at least a willingness to suspend disbelief for reasons I can't comprehend.
As far as conservative-leaning posters on this board go, they're not all the same (and neither are the left-leaners either). Vitamin/Eli is a very intelligent guy who just happens to have swallowed the neo-con BS hook, line and sinker. He's does not appear to be a social conservative. As much as I've argued with him, I miss his presence.
Most of the others have been fairly cool.
Sabadabada (sp?) basically talks a lot of shit, sounds like he stays up late to watch Bill O'Reilly and when cornered resorts to personal attacks. He can eat a dick.