I've been listening to punk/hardcore on&off sice I was about 8-9 years old (thru my sister).And this shit is still fucking brutal.Best post 2000 cut by a mile...Anybody on here like hardcore?
yeah converge are one of few neo-hardcore bands that I can still listen to without cringing. i've had a lot of friends over the years that have been way into that sort of stuff and I remember watching that shit go from small localized scenes to mall friendly hot topic fodder practically overnight...i still know some folks that are big deal people in some areas and shit is fucking ridiculous these days (ridiculous in the truest sense of the word). on one end of the spectrum it's such a bizarre testosterone fest that it's almost otherworldly (has anyone been to a hardcore show recently? shit is an anthropology research project waiting to happen) and on the other end of the spectrum there are bands that are so whiney and overly ambitious that it makes you want to claw your ears out. some stuff has been chilling the fuck out recently (thanks to stoner metal becoming so trendy) but the bands that are bad just keep getting worse and worse. shit is an anthropology research project waiting to happen.
"jane doe" is still a hard hitting and amazing album to me, though. it really shows the pure power that that kind of music has. hard of hard to articulate what exactly makes it so good, cause it sure as hell isn't "wow, they're playing fast" or "those guitar parts are hard". you can really see why it drove so many bands to misinterpret them horribly and try and sound exactly the same (and fail horribly, resulting in some of the most unintentionally hilarious music in recent memory).
older dudes who listen to this will probably be like "huh?" cause it doesn't sound like minor threat or bad brains. what is known as "hardcore" these days has changed a hell of a lot from the 80s and you didn't miss much.
That's pretty good, but it sounds like metal to me. Hardcore means short songs and no ooodly ooodly guitar solos (for the most part) IMO.
Agnostic Front managed to have 30 second songs AND ooodly ooodly guitar solos!
Stigma!!!
C'mon, Stigma's guitar hasn't even been plugged in most of the time. He's the Jarobi of NYHC. If you want to talk hardcore with solos we can bring up Bad Brains or Cro-Mags.
No "ooodly ooodly" bullshit on this MONSTER. Hardcore was pretty devoid of metal influences in the "golden years" 1981-1984. Mid-80s is when a lot of bands really crossed over into the metal influences (some better then others).
Don't get me wrong...I actually like a good rockin' ax solo, but that Converge is what we old folks call METAL.
maybe i should rephrase: I think they're fucking terrible.
touche senor awol. i stand corrected.
I just never could get into that jocky new york stuff. it always just seemed really silly, never really found much meaning in that whole style other that being tough. it's really bizzare that agnostic front came up because randomly after I stated typing this i heard one of my housemates listening to some old radio show with agnostic front arguing with born against about record company bullshit. born against....now there's a hardcore band I can get behind. no ayo.
maybe i should rephrase: I think they're fucking terrible.
touche senor awol. i stand corrected.
I just never could get into that jocky new york stuff. it always just seemed really silly, never really found much meaning in that whole style other that being tough. it's really bizzare that agnostic front came up because randomly after I stated typing this i heard one of my housemates listening to some old radio show with agnostic front arguing with born against about record company bullshit. born against....now there's a hardcore band I can get behind. no ayo.
Please read the lyrics to Agnostic Front's "Victim in Pain". Nothing jocky about it...beautiful actually...a masterpiece. Obviously they record typical toughguy/unity crap now because it pays the bills. There were tons of NY bands with something to say...and really, not to stir up shit but the same generalizations have been made about rap.
The "ooodly ooodly" part was a joke, I saw AF enough times to know the score with Stigma, that's why I said it, ha. I'm not sayin' you must like AF to like hardcore, cause I hate when dudes try to say if you don't feel one thing, you don't know shit. But you can't floss Converge on one hand and dismiss AF on the other as if one doesn't come from the other. Yeah, "jock rock" and all that, and the legacy of the lower east side hardcore scene has many suspect moments, but "Victim In Pain" and "Cause for Alarm" are two stone fucking hardcore classics. Those dudes live were pretty off the hook for a few years as well.
The "ooodly ooodly" part was a joke, I saw AF enough times to know the score with Stigma, that's why I said it, ha. I'm not sayin' you must like AF to like hardcore, cause I hate when dudes try to say if you don't feel one thing, you don't know shit. But you can't floss Converge on one hand and dismiss AF on the other as if one doesn't come from the other. Yeah, "jock rock" and all that, and the legacy of the lower east side hardcore scene has many suspect moments, but "Victim In Pain" and "Cause for Alarm" are two stone fucking hardcore classics. Those dudes live were pretty off the hook for a few years as well.
however agnostic front are only important in certain circles. though important to some people from what I can tell they're not really too universal of an influence, and I certainly wouldn't tie them in with bands like converge...i'm sure they probably would be quicker to reference moss icon or something than any of the new york tough guy stuff. but who knows, really. and it's not like I'm putting converge on some sort of pedistal as the perfection of hardcore (it could have began and ended with minor threat for all care)...they're simply one of the only hardcore bands in recent years that i give two shits about.
anyone see that new punk documentary? i forget what it's called. henry rollins (of all people) kind of puts that whole AF strain of hardcore in it's place.
however agnostic front are only important in certain circles. though important to some people from what I can tell they're not really too universal of an influence, and I certainly wouldn't tie them in with bands like converge...i'm sure they probably would be quicker to reference moss icon or something than any of the new york tough guy stuff. but who knows, really. and it's not like I'm putting converge on some sort of pedistal as the perfection of hardcore (it could have began and ended with minor threat for all care)...they're simply one of the only hardcore bands in recent years that i give two shits about.
anyone see that new punk documentary? i forget what it's called. henry rollins (of all people) kind of puts that whole AF strain of hardcore in it's place.
awall...not to bust your balls but Moss Icon?! wtf...that band was pure emo. I would bet my tuckus that Converge would site early AF and, um, SLAYER as influences.
I'll have to bite my tongue regarding Rollins...as if dude hasn't been guilty of "tough guy" bullshittery himself...but haven't seen the documentary to put his comments in context.
however agnostic front are only important in certain circles. though important to some people from what I can tell they're not really too universal of an influence, and I certainly wouldn't tie them in with bands like converge...i'm sure they probably would be quicker to reference moss icon or something than any of the new york tough guy stuff. but who knows, really. and it's not like I'm putting converge on some sort of pedistal as the perfection of hardcore (it could have began and ended with minor threat for all care)...they're simply one of the only hardcore bands in recent years that i give two shits about.
anyone see that new punk documentary? i forget what it's called. henry rollins (of all people) kind of puts that whole AF strain of hardcore in it's place.
awall...not to bust your balls but Moss Icon?! wtf...that band was pure emo. I would bet my tuckus that Converge would site early AF and, um, SLAYER as influences.
I'll have to bite my tongue regarding Rollins...as if dude hasn't been guilty of "tough guy" bullshittery himself...but haven't seen the documentary to put his comments in context.
well bands like moss icon and rites of spring have a lot more to do with the modern hardcore scene than you'd think, though you're right...they're probably not as much an influence on bands like converge and more of an influence on bands on the more whiney/screamy end of the spectrum. and they are the type of bands that are overemphasized by hardcore collectors as an influence on the progression of hardcore. but are you just basing this on the one track posted or are you familiar with all the converge stuff? cause you'd be surprised at how non-"metal" some of it sounds. some of it sounds like fucking radiohead. i kind of doubt that they're bumpin AF, but who knows, i guess it's kind of silly to speculate what a bands influences are unless it's really obvious. slayer for sure though. all speculation aside, i bet you'd be hard pressed to find any post 80s hardcore or metal band that wasn't influenced by them, knowingly or unknowingly.
as for rollins, the reason i said "of all people" was that it was surprising to hear from him. he's got some good shit to say though, and i think it's good that he can criticize a form of music that he somewhat had a hand in inspiring. the movie is pretty good too (i just looked it up, it's called Punk: Attitude...they're showing it on sundance or IFC or something). it deals mostly with proto-punk stuff and they chose some interesting bands to discuss and interesting people to talk about them. it pretty much stops at the early 80s though (which is good in my book).
There is absolutely nothing in the world terrible about Agnostic Front, straight up one of the greatest HC bands ever and anyone who disagrees has a wack opinion regarding that, regardless of whether or not Stigma's guitar was unplugged, their records still kick ass. Converge are also very good. As are Charles Bronson.
Only if we are talkin the most in your face, "piss on your head after i scorch your head to flames with a can of aerosol" hardcore.
If you don't have the.... discography... you don't know hardcore.
woah, another weird coincidence...my housemate just put "youth attack" on in the living room. one of my favorite bands in this vein. i would call them grindcore though...
yikes...enough arguing about hardcore for tonight.
Comments
just this
That looks like a sorry e party to me.
better?
Nobb. That's more of an e party actually.
Did you listen to the cut?
Good q. But no, no rock for Grafwritah.
damn, that's a great track. is it on vinyl?
Agnostic Front managed to have 30 second songs AND ooodly ooodly guitar solos!
Well it's sorta inbetween i think, but i don't really care. It's good music after all.
To other questions.
It's
Converge - Fault and Fracture.
Taken from this
Converge - Jane Doe (Equal Vision). 2001.
And yes, it was also released on vinyl.
+ sidenote... fucking ridiculously tight drummer.
AF
"jane doe" is still a hard hitting and amazing album to me, though. it really shows the pure power that that kind of music has. hard of hard to articulate what exactly makes it so good, cause it sure as hell isn't "wow, they're playing fast" or "those guitar parts are hard". you can really see why it drove so many bands to misinterpret them horribly and try and sound exactly the same (and fail horribly, resulting in some of the most unintentionally hilarious music in recent memory).
older dudes who listen to this will probably be like "huh?" cause it doesn't sound like minor threat or bad brains. what is known as "hardcore" these days has changed a hell of a lot from the 80s and you didn't miss much.
oh, and agnostic front are fucking terrible.
Oh, sorry - I thought this was a hardcore thread.
they are better than any new hardcore IMO. i did always like bad brains more though. then again, i'm one of those "old" dudes.
maybe i should rephrase: I think they're fucking terrible.
touche senor awol. i stand corrected.
C'mon, Stigma's guitar hasn't even been plugged in most of the time. He's the Jarobi of NYHC. If you want to talk hardcore with solos we can bring up Bad Brains or Cro-Mags.
No "ooodly ooodly" bullshit on this MONSTER. Hardcore was pretty devoid of metal influences in the "golden years" 1981-1984. Mid-80s is when a lot of bands really crossed over into the metal influences (some better then others).
Don't get me wrong...I actually like a good rockin' ax solo, but that Converge is what we old folks call METAL.
I just never could get into that jocky new york stuff. it always just seemed really silly, never really found much meaning in that whole style other that being tough. it's really bizzare that agnostic front came up because randomly after I stated typing this i heard one of my housemates listening to some old radio show with agnostic front arguing with born against about record company bullshit. born against....now there's a hardcore band I can get behind. no ayo.
Please read the lyrics to Agnostic Front's "Victim in Pain". Nothing jocky about it...beautiful actually...a masterpiece. Obviously they record typical toughguy/unity crap now because it pays the bills. There were tons of NY bands with something to say...and really, not to stir up shit but the same generalizations have been made about rap.
I'm not sayin' you must like AF to like hardcore, cause I hate when dudes try to say if you don't feel one thing, you don't know shit.
But you can't floss Converge on one hand and dismiss AF on the other as if one doesn't come from the other. Yeah, "jock rock" and all that, and the legacy of the lower east side hardcore scene has many suspect moments, but "Victim In Pain" and "Cause for Alarm" are two stone fucking hardcore classics. Those dudes live were pretty off the hook for a few years as well.
however agnostic front are only important in certain circles. though important to some people from what I can tell they're not really too universal of an influence, and I certainly wouldn't tie them in with bands like converge...i'm sure they probably would be quicker to reference moss icon or something than any of the new york tough guy stuff. but who knows, really. and it's not like I'm putting converge on some sort of pedistal as the perfection of hardcore (it could have began and ended with minor threat for all care)...they're simply one of the only hardcore bands in recent years that i give two shits about.
anyone see that new punk documentary? i forget what it's called. henry rollins (of all people) kind of puts that whole AF strain of hardcore in it's place.
Oh, thank God.
awall...not to bust your balls but Moss Icon?! wtf...that band was pure emo. I would bet my tuckus that Converge would site early AF and, um, SLAYER as influences.
I'll have to bite my tongue regarding Rollins...as if dude hasn't been guilty of "tough guy" bullshittery himself...but haven't seen the documentary to put his comments in context.
well bands like moss icon and rites of spring have a lot more to do with the modern hardcore scene than you'd think, though you're right...they're probably not as much an influence on bands like converge and more of an influence on bands on the more whiney/screamy end of the spectrum. and they are the type of bands that are overemphasized by hardcore collectors as an influence on the progression of hardcore. but are you just basing this on the one track posted or are you familiar with all the converge stuff? cause you'd be surprised at how non-"metal" some of it sounds. some of it sounds like fucking radiohead. i kind of doubt that they're bumpin AF, but who knows, i guess it's kind of silly to speculate what a bands influences are unless it's really obvious. slayer for sure though. all speculation aside, i bet you'd be hard pressed to find any post 80s hardcore or metal band that wasn't influenced by them, knowingly or unknowingly.
as for rollins, the reason i said "of all people" was that it was surprising to hear from him. he's got some good shit to say though, and i think it's good that he can criticize a form of music that he somewhat had a hand in inspiring. the movie is pretty good too (i just looked it up, it's called Punk: Attitude...they're showing it on sundance or IFC or something). it deals mostly with proto-punk stuff and they chose some interesting bands to discuss and interesting people to talk about them. it pretty much stops at the early 80s though (which is good in my book).
Only if we are talkin the most in your face, "piss on your head after i scorch your head to flames with a can of aerosol" hardcore.
If you don't have the....
woah, another weird coincidence...my housemate just put "youth attack" on in the living room. one of my favorite bands in this vein. i would call them grindcore though...
yikes...enough arguing about hardcore for tonight.
That's a lot of rabbit fur right there