Y'all fools are trippin' for feeling sorry for Kanye. Feel sorry for Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings. They really are struggling musicians who make a fraction in comparison to what Kanye makes in selling ONE-BEAT.
I mean if that track gets released hopefully the Dap-Kings/Sharon Jones will some actuall "industry money".
OOPSIE, THE POPROCK EDITION: the stones' former band manager getting publishing rights for the verve's "bittersweet symphony" because they sampled some schlocky string arrangement of "the last time"--ashcroft got no money off that single and i don't think they have licensing rights.
I'm sure anybody who's read the Just Blaze interview in Scratch will be able to tell you the same shit happened with "Breathe." It started getting spins on the radio before the sample was cleared and once sample clearing time came around, it was already a hit. Supertramp (I think that's the sample) could basically ask whatever the fuck they wanted (which was 100% I believe).
For a bunch of guys who (for the most part) got started digging from hip-hop artists sampling, yall are surprisingly rough on today's rappers. This is not the first time dudes have been outraged that a sample might not have been cleared.... how many classic hip-hop records (ie, "the real shit") would never have been made if dudes had to clear? Not that it's an issue here, J Records has the cash to do it, but saying... I mean, cut dude a little slack, like I said before it's not Kanye's responsibility to clear the sample, so why the hate?
It seems like this board feels like sampling is an art that should be supported, but conversely that sampling without clearance is a no-no. Where's the middle ground?
I won't go into detail, but I just did the same thing with a record DJ Shadow sampled. It was up on ebay with the "Shadow used this" description and sound clip, when the original artist contacted me, saying "hey, what song did he use this for?" I responded by telling him I'd rather stay out of it and I edited my auction description, but I'm sure the damage was already done.
I can't speak for anybody else, but MY only issue with this is that SJ & the DK's get a little something out of it as they are tiny fish in the large sea of entertainers, who are doing things on a very small scale RIGHT NOW and whom many here have met and/or worked with... this is NOT similiar to most cases where only big publishing companies/lawyers/record companies are just trying to squeeze a buck out of something that they didn't even know they had the rights to a week ago... and I'm not blaming Kanye for anything...
If Kanye was bout it he would take them on tour as his backing band. But Kanye don't care about ____________ (a. the real shit b. sharon jones c. us d. ya mama)
For a bunch of guys who (for the most part) got started digging from hip-hop artists sampling, yall are surprisingly rough on today's rappers. This is not the first time dudes have been outraged that a sample might not have been cleared.... how many classic hip-hop records (ie, "the real shit") would never have been made if dudes had to clear? Not that it's an issue here, J Records has the cash to do it, but saying... I mean, cut dude a little slack, like I said before it's not Kanye's responsibility to clear the sample, so why the hate?
It seems like this board feels like sampling is an art that should be supported, but conversely that sampling without clearance is a no-no. Where's the middle ground?
Or is this only about Sharon Jones?
Yes, but a lot of that real shit was before the whole sampling issue was hashed out. I can give a pass to a lot of older artitst who just didn't know better at the time and figured they were just taking a little bit.
But in 2005 with major artists like Kanye and BEP making millions and millions they owe it to the little fish to pay up. Plus, if dude at a concert heard the song and said "Woa that's a Kanye sample" then Kanye obviously used enough of it that he should pay. Plus, Sharon Jones is the kind of group that people should be supporting. It's one thing if it's a 40 year old song where the artitst are gone and the only people gettting sample money are the big record companies. But this is a current group on a smaller label and their is no reason not to give them credit and a check.
For a bunch of guys who (for the most part) got started digging from hip-hop artists sampling, yall are surprisingly rough on today's rappers. This is not the first time dudes have been outraged that a sample might not have been cleared.... how many classic hip-hop records (ie, "the real shit") would never have been made if dudes had to clear? Not that it's an issue here, J Records has the cash to do it, but saying... I mean, cut dude a little slack, like I said before it's not Kanye's responsibility to clear the sample, so why the hate?
It seems like this board feels like sampling is an art that should be supported, but conversely that sampling without clearance is a no-no. Where's the middle ground?
Or is this only about Sharon Jones?
Yes, but a lot of that real shit was before the whole sampling issue was hashed out. I can give a pass to a lot of older artitst who just didn't know better at the time and figured they were just taking a little bit.
But in 2005 with major artists like Kanye and BEP making millions and millions they owe it to the little fish to pay up. Plus, if dude at a concert heard the song and said "Woa that's a Kanye sample" then Kanye obviously used enough of it that he should pay. Plus, Sharon Jones is the kind of group that people should be supporting. It's one thing if it's a 40 year old song where the artitst are gone and the only people gettting sample money are the big record companies. But this is a current group on a smaller label and their is no reason not to give them credit and a check.
OK, let me reiterate:
1. It is never the producer's responsibility to clear the sample. All the producer has to do is offer what he sampled if asked.
2. Plenty of songs are owned by their original authors or surviving family. Speculating that Sharon Jones owns her music more than any other artist is ridiculous on its face. Moreover plenty of samples are small label affairs - this really has no bearing on my question.
3. Kanye might be making millions and millions, but Rhymefest isn't. The clearance comes out of his budget, not Kanye's. Imagine Kanye didn't produce this, say Jake One produced this. Would it still be so much of an outrage?
I know for a fact this song has been around for at least 6 months if not a year. I heard it at least 6 months ago. I'm sure Kanye is far removed from the process at this point.
Of course the sample should be cleared. But I don't get the contradictory attitude towards sampling on this board. So I raised those questions...
If Kanye was bout it he would take them on tour as his backing band. But Kanye don't care about ____________ (a. the real shit b. sharon jones c. us d. ya mama)
But he does care about that paper! (and Polo garments)
hot shit. could this be a first for new funkers to get sampled by a major label artist?? i'm actually surprised this doesn't happen more often. some primo beats out there done by current groups. and of course many of these new records are made by "break whores" so there is plenty of hot shit waiting to get flipped.
gabe and neal at daptone work their tailskids off, so if anyone is getting paid (anything) from a daptone tune, daptone needs to get paid.
1. It is never the producer's responsibility to clear the sample. All the producer has to do is offer what he sampled if asked.
Is this a fact? All the record contracts I've seen read just the opposite; that it's the artists responsibility. It might be different over in the US, though.
I mean, cut dude a little slack, like I said before it's not Kanye's responsibility to clear the sample, so why the hate?
sure, it's not kanye's responsiblity to clear the sample, but... in normal production contracts, producers are responsible to notify the label about any samples and/or copyright issues. i don't know what the ramifications are if producers fail to do this.
i bet kanye didn't even know what he was sampling or someone gave him this beat or he had someone else pull a sample for him. anyway you cut it, to kanye
1. It is never the producer's responsibility to clear the sample. All the producer has to do is offer what he sampled if asked.
2. Plenty of songs are owned by their original authors or surviving family. Speculating that Sharon Jones owns her music more than any other artist is ridiculous on its face. Moreover plenty of samples are small label affairs - this really has no bearing on my question.
3. Kanye might be making millions and millions, but Rhymefest isn't. The clearance comes out of his budget, not Kanye's. Imagine Kanye didn't produce this, say Jake One produced this. Would it still be so much of an outrage?
I know for a fact this song has been around for at least 6 months if not a year. I heard it at least 6 months ago. I'm sure Kanye is far removed from the process at this point.
Of course the sample should be cleared. But I don't get the contradictory attitude towards sampling on this board. So I raised those questions...
1. I guess I would disagree with that because the producers knows what he used so if it's a big chunk of a song they should just fess up. I'm fine with not disclosing little stabs that know one will really know and are so far removed from their original context.
2. Totally agree with that, I was just saying that plenty of song aren't owned by the original artists. So I think a lot of the "double standard" comes from artists outrage. "You Mr Record Company ripped off the original artists and know they work and KFC. And you continue to rip them off by collecting royalties and sample fee's that the artists will never see because you conned him in the contract. Screw you were taking it back........" I think that the general gist of a lot of the attitude.
3. Good point, but this is Kanye and his no dummy about sampling so he wants to be the man of the people then he should be leading the fight to get Sharon paid. I don't know all the fine details of contracts, but I guess in a case like this the sampling fee could be divided based on points and who's making what percentage of money off the song.
Like you said there is still a lot of debate and contradiction when it comes to sampling. More than anything I think it's the evil record companies trying to make people pay for ever little sound that is driving a lot of the secrecy/denial. Plus, cases like the Beastie boys vs Newton when they cleared the sample and then get sued by the artists cuz they didn't clear it enough!?!?!?! Shure they won but they blew a lot of money on lawyers for something they did right to begin with. I think it makes a lot of artists feel like "I can't win so why bother."
1. It is never the producer's responsibility to clear the sample. All the producer has to do is offer what he sampled if asked.
Is this a fact? All the record contracts I've seen read just the opposite; that it's the artists responsibility. It might be different over in the US, though.
Every contract I've ever seen has said: you are a producer, we are a label. If you get popped we are like huh? we didn't know and it's on you, very personally. I would like to recommend/suggest any producers out there releasing sampled ish on a semi-large scale to incorporate as soon as possible to protect your personal assets from an infringement lawsuit. BTW if the label gets a cease and desist (sp?) that's your ass playa, not the label's.
Imagine Kanye didn't produce this, say Jake One produced this. Would it still be so much of an outrage?
I think Jake is actually really good about clearing stuff. I'm pretty sure he's even said once this board that he's abandoned tracks because the sample costs too much. Plus, this is the kind of middle ground that JP was reffering too. Jake One isn't make millions (yet) so I think you really only owe if you making dough.
OK, yes producers are supposed to disclose the sample. I was not clear, I meant that if the label doesn't ask about it or build it into the contract then it is not the producer's responsibility at that point. Although I'm sure the label would throw that back on the producer in question....
That said, I don't think Kanye was trying to get over. A dude of that stature just deals with clearance like regular BI. Hence my confusion.................
Imagine Kanye didn't produce this, say Jake One produced this. Would it still be so much of an outrage?
I think Jake is actually really good about clearing stuff. I'm pretty sure he's even said once this board that he's abandoned tracks because the sample costs too much. Plus, this is the kind of middle ground that JP was reffering too. Jake One isn't make millions (yet) so I think you really only owe if you making dough.
From a fairness standpoint I totally agree. I don't like to see the little guys get shit on. And we all know major labels can gamble on a sample clearance even if the song doesn't blow up because they hav that capital. Little guys take a much bigger risk.
But, I'm afraid this is too subjective a standard to really enforce. Like, how much you have to be getting paid before you should have to start clearing samples?
Like, how much you have to be getting paid before you should have to start clearing samples?
That's the big question right there. I liked it when George Cliton came out with those sample CD's and said you don't have to pay unless it's a hit, but I forgot what the dollar amount was that he cosidered a hit.
Imagine Kanye didn't produce this, say Jake One produced this. Would it still be so much of an outrage?
I think Jake is actually really good about clearing stuff. I'm pretty sure he's even said once this board that he's abandoned tracks because the sample costs too much. Plus, this is the kind of middle ground that JP was reffering too. Jake One isn't make millions (yet) so I think you really only owe if you making dough.
I've cleared all the stuff I've done on major labels. Sampling isn't fair, it sucks and I'm doin a whole lot less of it. Right now I'm on edge as I'm trying to clear a very obscure sample from a musical for a very big record that is droppin in November.
Comments
I mean if that track gets released hopefully the Dap-Kings/Sharon Jones will some actuall "industry money".
KANYE DON'T CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE!
the dap kings are black?
that was definitely an oopsie for quik
OOPSIE, THE POPROCK EDITION: the stones' former band manager getting publishing rights for the verve's "bittersweet symphony" because they sampled some schlocky string arrangement of "the last time"--ashcroft got no money off that single and i don't think they have licensing rights.
-e
You better not call out any of my samples, or I have my guys come out to AZ and break your legs!!!!
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
It seems like this board feels like sampling is an art that should be supported, but conversely that sampling without clearance is a no-no. Where's the middle ground?
Or is this only about Sharon Jones?
I can't speak for anybody else, but MY only issue with this is that SJ & the DK's get a little something out of it as they are tiny fish in the large sea of entertainers, who are doing things on a very small scale RIGHT NOW and whom many here have met and/or worked with... this is NOT similiar to most cases where only big publishing companies/lawyers/record companies are just trying to squeeze a buck out of something that they didn't even know they had the rights to a week ago... and I'm not blaming Kanye for anything...
Yes, but a lot of that real shit was before the whole sampling issue was hashed out. I can give a pass to a lot of older artitst who just didn't know better at the time and figured they were just taking a little bit.
But in 2005 with major artists like Kanye and BEP making millions and millions they owe it to the little fish to pay up. Plus, if dude at a concert heard the song and said "Woa that's a Kanye sample" then Kanye obviously used enough of it that he should pay. Plus, Sharon Jones is the kind of group that people should be supporting. It's one thing if it's a 40 year old song where the artitst are gone and the only people gettting sample money are the big record companies. But this is a current group on a smaller label and their is no reason not to give them credit and a check.
OK, let me reiterate:
1. It is never the producer's responsibility to clear the sample. All the producer has to do is offer what he sampled if asked.
2. Plenty of songs are owned by their original authors or surviving family. Speculating that Sharon Jones owns her music more than any other artist is ridiculous on its face. Moreover plenty of samples are small label affairs - this really has no bearing on my question.
3. Kanye might be making millions and millions, but Rhymefest isn't. The clearance comes out of his budget, not Kanye's. Imagine Kanye didn't produce this, say Jake One produced this. Would it still be so much of an outrage?
I know for a fact this song has been around for at least 6 months if not a year. I heard it at least 6 months ago. I'm sure Kanye is far removed from the process at this point.
Of course the sample should be cleared. But I don't get the contradictory attitude towards sampling on this board. So I raised those questions...
gabe and neal at daptone work their tailskids off, so if anyone is getting paid (anything) from a daptone tune, daptone needs to get paid.
1st meeting with Sharon: "Let's get this money"
Then I went and got at Kanye: "This is a hot 45 you should sample it"
Next week: "Yippee"
Is this a fact? All the record contracts I've seen read just the opposite; that it's the artists responsibility. It might be different over in the US, though.
Who did the "George Bush DOn't Like People" jam over the Golddigger beat?
I'm hearing this right now.
sure, it's not kanye's responsiblity to clear the sample, but...
in normal production contracts, producers are responsible to notify the label about any samples and/or copyright issues.
i don't know what the ramifications are if producers fail to do this.
i bet kanye didn't even know what he was sampling or someone gave him this beat or he had someone else pull a sample for him.
anyway you cut it,
1. I guess I would disagree with that because the producers knows what he used so if it's a big chunk of a song they should just fess up. I'm fine with not disclosing little stabs that know one will really know and are so far removed from their original context.
2. Totally agree with that, I was just saying that plenty of song aren't owned by the original artists. So I think a lot of the "double standard" comes from artists outrage. "You Mr Record Company ripped off the original artists and know they work and KFC. And you continue to rip them off by collecting royalties and sample fee's that the artists will never see because you conned him in the contract. Screw you were taking it back........" I think that the general gist of a lot of the attitude.
3. Good point, but this is Kanye and his no dummy about sampling so he wants to be the man of the people then he should be leading the fight to get Sharon paid. I don't know all the fine details of contracts, but I guess in a case like this the sampling fee could be divided based on points and who's making what percentage of money off the song.
Like you said there is still a lot of debate and contradiction when it comes to sampling. More than anything I think it's the evil record companies trying to make people pay for ever little sound that is driving a lot of the secrecy/denial. Plus, cases like the Beastie boys vs Newton when they cleared the sample and then get sued by the artists cuz they didn't clear it enough!?!?!?! Shure they won but they blew a lot of money on lawyers for something they did right to begin with. I think it makes a lot of artists feel like "I can't win so why bother."
When all else fails I blame "The Man".
Every contract I've ever seen has said: you are a producer, we are a label. If you get popped we are like huh? we didn't know and it's on you, very personally. I would like to recommend/suggest any producers out there releasing sampled ish on a semi-large scale to incorporate as soon as possible to protect your personal assets from an infringement lawsuit. BTW if the label gets a cease and desist (sp?) that's your ass playa, not the label's.
I think Jake is actually really good about clearing stuff. I'm pretty sure he's even said once this board that he's abandoned tracks because the sample costs too much. Plus, this is the kind of middle ground that JP was reffering too. Jake One isn't make millions (yet) so I think you really only owe if you making dough.
That said, I don't think Kanye was trying to get over. A dude of that stature just deals with clearance like regular BI. Hence my confusion.................
From a fairness standpoint I totally agree. I don't like to see the little guys get shit on. And we all know major labels can gamble on a sample clearance even if the song doesn't blow up because they hav that capital. Little guys take a much bigger risk.
But, I'm afraid this is too subjective a standard to really enforce. Like, how much you have to be getting paid before you should have to start clearing samples?
That's the big question right there. I liked it when George Cliton came out with those sample CD's and said you don't have to pay unless it's a hit, but I forgot what the dollar amount was that he cosidered a hit.
I've cleared all the stuff I've done on major labels. Sampling isn't fair, it sucks and I'm doin a whole lot less of it. Right now I'm on edge as I'm trying to clear a very obscure sample from a musical for a very big record that is droppin in November.
Somehow I don't think so.
Of course Kayne does. How do you think he found out about the AP looting/finding thing?
Who doesn't come to SS???