I'm sure this is pretty much how Iraqis have been living for the last 2 years.
Yes. It's like, for all the people who didn't want to hear about how bungled the invasion of Iraq was even as a purely military operation - not even getting into the ideology or excuses for said invasion, just the incompetence on an operational level - now they get to see the same lack of compassion and basic human feeling for the victims in action right here at home. Just as the US Army rolled through Iraq and looked for photo ops of toppled statues and surrendering soldiers, all the while ignoring/blacking out the images of starving, homeless, wounded and dead Iraqi citizens, now we see the same contempt for our own American citizens, made all the more obvious because once again it is the poor and people of color being left to die and rot in their own filth. This government (and to be honest, to a smaller degree many in power before it) does not care about people. They care about power, personal gain, and imposing what they believe to be moral/religous values on everyone under their authority. And I get the feeling it is going to blow up in their faces very soon[/b].
This government (and to be honest, to a smaller degree many in power before it) does not care about people. They care about power, personal gain, and imposing what they believe to be moral/religous values on everyone to more easily sustain their authority.[/b]
I'm sure this is pretty much how Iraqis have been living for the last 2 years.
Yes.
It's like, for all the people who didn't want to hear about how bungled the invasion of Iraq was even as a purely military operation - not even getting into the ideology or excuses for said invasion, just the incompetence on an operational level - now they get to see the same lack of compassion and basic human feeling for the victims in action right here at home. Just as the US Army rolled through Iraq and looked for photo ops of toppled statues and surrendering soldiers, all the while ignoring/blacking out the images of starving, homeless, wounded and dead Iraqi citizens, now we see the same contempt for our own American citizens, made all the more obvious because once again it is the poor and people of color being left to die and rot in their own filth. This government (and to be honest, to a smaller degree many in power before it) does not care about people. They care about power, personal gain, and imposing what they believe to be moral/religous values on everyone under their authority. And I get the feeling it is going to blow up in their faces very soon[/b].
And I get the feeling it is going to blow up in their faces very soon[/b].
NEVER.....[/b]everything is going according to plan from what i can tell
I have never seen the media, even the conservative "bought" media to a point, just laying in to politicians like I have in the past few days. It may not last, it may not go anywhere, but the way this country is guided and schooled by the popular media, seeing CNN reporters shouting down senators, hearing Mayors calling out the feds, seeing Kanye West blow the spot up...this must have some sort of effect. People are seeing things that are making them angrier and angrier, and more and more disgusted by the incompetence and lack of humanity of those in power.
And I get the feeling it is going to blow up in their faces very soon[/b].
NEVER.....[/b]everything is going according to plan from what i can tell
I have never seen the media, even the conservative "bought" media to a point, just laying in to politicians like I have in the past few days. It may not last, it may not go anywhere, but the way this country is guided and schooled by the popular media, seeing CNN reporters shouting down senators, hearing Mayors calling out the feds, seeing Kanye West blow the spot up...this must have some sort of effect. People are seeing things that are making them angrier and angrier, and more and more disgusted by the incompetence and lack of humanity of those in power.
Agreed ..but remember we still have 3 more years of Bush running the show and he now has TWO supreme court justices to appoint and from the previous 5 years he's been in charge no one has been able to stop him from enforcing 'The Agenda'...The people/media can be angry all day,everyday but no real action is being taken and those who have tried to take any action have been dismissed(see election 2000)..not to mention those who are too afraid to even speak...Even the so-called great Mayor of New Orleans who was carrying on,crying and cussin' called for Martial Law himself at one point and now he's praising Bush
...Even the so-called great Mayor of New Orleans who was carrying on,crying and cussin' called for Martial Law himself at one point and now he's praising Bush
Guardsmen 'played cards' amid New Orleans chaos: police official[/b]
New Orleans deputy police commander W.S. Riley launched a bitter attack on the federal response to the disaster though he praised the way the evacuation was eventually handled. ... "We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.
Riley went on: "We have been fired on with automatic weapons. We still have some thugs around. My biggest disappointment is with the federal government and the National Guard.
"The guard arrived 48 hours after the hurricane with 40 trucks. They drove their trucks in and went to sleep.
"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards. I understand why we are not winning the war in Iraq if this is what we have."
I understand why we are not winning the war in Iraq if this is what we have
Ouch.
This is what I'm talin' about. Dudes are turning on these fuckers QUICK. Shit man if a blowjob can get a dude impeached, what the fuck do these assholes have to do to even get censured??
I understand why we are not winning the war in Iraq if this is what we have
Ouch.
This is what I'm talin' about. Dudes are turning on these fuckers QUICK. Shit man if a blowjob can get a dude impeached, what the fuck do these assholes have to do to even get censured??
I wish I had it in me to for a "zing" cause that was way too on point.
But think about it, if what the policeman claims is true, what kind of person would sit back and let people die when they had the means to save or help at least some?
Someone who is expressly under orders not to.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Hey Alien and others,
To answer your question "What the fuck is happening in Nola", I'll tell you. Quite simply, we are seeing live and direct the intersection of race and class that I speak of on here all the time. Minorities and the poor are ignored in this country, and they horrificly slow response from the government speaks volumes. Events like this fuel my pessimisism regarding race (and class) relations in this country. Instead of responding as quickly as possible, Bush has his goons out performing "image damage control" via press conferences and interviews. Send the fuckin' aid and damn the talking. It's funny how responses were much faster to tsunami relief efforts and 9/11, yet lethargic in a place that happens to be 67% Black (while New York City is 22% Black; U.S. Census Bureau, 2000).
The older I get the more I become cynical because shit hasn't changed. My wife has a redneck co-worker asking her how much money the Red Cross will send the victims of this tragedy, as if helping them will hurt her in some way. The ignorant woman doesn't realize that the Red Cross is a non-profit org. that operates on donations. This woman's mentality represents a large portion of White folks in this country, including those in power. I'm not slamming all Whites mind you, just making a point that there is an insidious element that is bent on the disenfranchisement of the downtrodden. Historically, there have been many White folks out there striving for freedom and rights for ALL people (John Brown immediately comes to mind as well as Harriet Beecher Stowe), and this continues to be the case. My question is why can't the government and/or people in general operate in pursuit of the greater good for ALL people? That's my issue in a nutshell.
To answer your question "What the fuck is happening in Nola", I'll tell you. Quite simply, we are seeing live and direct the intersection of race and class that I speak of on here all the time. Minorities and the poor are ignored in this country, and they horrificly slow response from the government speaks volumes. Events like this fuel my pessimisism regarding race (and class) relations in this country. Instead of responding as quickly as possible, Bush has his goons out performing "image damage control" via press conferences and interviews. Send the fuckin' aid and damn the talking. It's funny how responses were much faster to tsunami relief efforts and 9/11, yet lethargic in a place that happens to be 67% Black (while New York City is 22% Black; U.S. Census Bureau, 2000).
The older I get the more I become cynical because shit hasn't changed. My wife has a redneck co-worker asking her how much money the Red Cross will send the victims of this tragedy, as if helping them will hurt her in some way. The ignorant woman doesn't realize that the Red Cross is a non-profit org. that operates on donations. This woman's mentality represents a large portion of White folks in this country, including those in power. I'm not slamming all Whites mind you, just making a point that there is an insidious element that is bent on the disenfranchisement of the downtrodden. Historically, there have been many White folks out there striving for freedom and rights for ALL people (John Brown immediately comes to mind as well as Harriet Beecher Stowe), and this continues to be the case. My question is why can't the government and/or people in general operate in pursuit of the greater good for ALL people? That's my issue in a nutshell.
A recent poll shows only 46% of Americans approve of Bush's handling of the crisis... of course, compared to 91% at 9/11... my question is WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE 46%???? Shit should be 10%. Or 0%
Those are the people who haven't checked for one bit of news beyond the frontpage of the paper or whatever. It's pretty hard not to tell how much of a clusterfuck this shit has become and been handled.
The more I think about this shit, the more it scares me. Shits almost on some mild genocide shit right now and I really can't see it getting better.
I agree with you Stax, though I would like to qualify your statement:
This woman's mentality represents a large portion of rich, complacent folks who would rather look the other way than be uncomfortable [/b] in this country, including those in power. I'm not slamming all Whites mind you, just making a point that there is an insidious element that is bent on the disenfranchisement of the downtrodden
Not feeling slammed, but I think the "insidious element" is the group of people that has an excess of money and have lost touched with people "across the tracks". I therefore submit to you that money is the primary factor in tweeking (washing?) people's minds; much more than just skin color. We can get into the "which came first, greed or racism?" argument I suppose, but that's where I think things stand.
I agree with you Stax, though I would like to qualify your statement:
This woman's mentality represents a large portion of rich, complacent folks who would rather look the other way than be uncomfortable [/b] in this country, including those in power. I'm not slamming all Whites mind you, just making a point that there is an insidious element that is bent on the disenfranchisement of the downtrodden
Not feeling slammed, but I think the "insidious element" is the group of people that has an excess of money and have lost touched with people "across the tracks". I therefore submit to you that money is the primary factor in tweeking (washing?) people's minds; much more than just skin color. We can get into the "which came first, greed or racism?" argument I suppose, but that's where I think things stand.
I still feel that most people equate 'black' with 'poor', and vice versa, so an argument is a moot point, IMO.
We in this household have taken to calling this entire scene (beginning with the Inaugaration of George W. Bush) the SLOW APOCALYPSE[/b].
Can someone, pro-Bush or not, please refer me to something actually positive that our current President has wrought?
When he first got into office, he and A$$croft started a nationwide plan to save energy by getting people to unplug their ac adapters when not in use. They called them vampires. This would have been a great project for some minor cabinet member or one of his daughters to spearhead, but either way, the sentiment was there.
I just finished reading all the links you people have posted in this thread...
I haven't stopped reading about this shit since it started... In Japan, so I haven't checked any real video of this.
Shit has blown my mind.
In America... The way this has been handled... the bizarre things FEMA and the military are doing (and not doing)... I just can't figure this shit out at all.
It's either complete and unexcusable incompetence, a complete breakdown of communication between different beuracracys (though they've handled other disasters fine, and even one's on foriegn soil), a complete disregard for the poor and black, a nefarious plan that we can't even imagine the purpose for, or a mix of all of the above.
Anyhow... this shit has me sad as fuck. I'm not feeling optimistic right now about where we are headed...
All this shit constantly reminds me that we are living on the Planet of the Apes.
a complete breakdown of communication between different beuracracys
I think this is a really big part of the equation. I think a lot of "leaders" don't understand what it means to lead. I think the Govenor (democrat) Of La might be the start of the problem. It is her job to get on the phone with the National Guard find out what resorces they have in put those resorces into motion. It is her job to get FEMA, HSA and Bush off their butts. Not just say, do something, or we need help. She needs to say, "we need to evacuate about a third of the population, about 450,000 people, we need all the buses and troop carriers we can get rolling non-stop until the job is done. They will need to bring in water and blankets on the return trips. How many blankets do you have.. well find another 200,000 now" And not stop working those phones and barking commands until the job is done.
I am not excusing FEMA and HSA. Bush has fucked those agencies up to the point where they are a bunch of ideologs who are only concerned about pretending to fight terrorism and care nothing about dealing with disasters. This would have been a 1,000 times worse if it had been terrorists blowing up 4 levies during Mardi Gras. They had no plan to deal with that, let alone a known risk like the one that happened.
Of course MM has it right. The number one problem is the bulk of the guards equipment, troop carriers, water trucks, helicoptors are in Iraq. They are not in Iraq because of a national emergency, they are in Iraq because of an occupation following a vanity war. National Guard are not supposed to do occupations.
I think a lot of "leaders" don't understand what it means to lead. I think the Govenor (democrat) Of La might be the start of the problem.
Your point is supported by the fact that we heard from [color:red]MAYOR NAGIN[/color] before anyone else. Yeah, where was the governor?
Also, a general question: are there any precedents for fuck ups like this? Just blatantly neglecting to respond to a national catastrophe?
I know every historical event is unique, but still, this event seems as significant as 9/11 to me if not more so. I am reminded of 9/11 when Bush was told of the events during a visit to a classroom, but continued to read some book about goats.
Domestically we are SOOO vulnerable and not handling our shit very well at all in a variety of issues.
Of course, anyone with an ear to the street cooduh told you that...
Goddamn I need to stop looking att his cause I'm ready to fucking snap.
MM is getting so much traffic it wont open for me. But the Oregonian, a conserative daily had a front page story detailing how FEMA has collapsed under Bush.
Comments
It's like, for all the people who didn't want to hear about how bungled the invasion of Iraq was even as a purely military operation - not even getting into the ideology or excuses for said invasion, just the incompetence on an operational level - now they get to see the same lack of compassion and basic human feeling for the victims in action right here at home. Just as the US Army rolled through Iraq and looked for photo ops of toppled statues and surrendering soldiers, all the while ignoring/blacking out the images of starving, homeless, wounded and dead Iraqi citizens, now we see the same contempt for our own American citizens, made all the more obvious because once again it is the poor and people of color being left to die and rot in their own filth. This government (and to be honest, to a smaller degree many in power before it) does not care about people. They care about power, personal gain, and imposing what they believe to be moral/religous values on everyone under their authority. And I get the feeling it is going to blow up in their faces very soon[/b].
NEVER.....[/b]everything is going according to plan from what i can tell
:realtallk:
I have never seen the media, even the conservative "bought" media to a point, just laying in to politicians like I have in the past few days. It may not last, it may not go anywhere, but the way this country is guided and schooled by the popular media, seeing CNN reporters shouting down senators, hearing Mayors calling out the feds, seeing Kanye West blow the spot up...this must have some sort of effect. People are seeing things that are making them angrier and angrier, and more and more disgusted by the incompetence and lack of humanity of those in power.
Agreed ..but remember we still have 3 more years of Bush running the show and he now has TWO supreme court justices to appoint and from the previous 5 years he's been in charge no one has been able to stop him from enforcing 'The Agenda'...The people/media can be angry all day,everyday but no real action is being taken and those who have tried to take any action have been dismissed(see election 2000)..not to mention those who are too afraid to even speak...Even the so-called great Mayor of New Orleans who was carrying on,crying and cussin' called for Martial Law himself at one point and now he's praising Bush
wha..? LEENK PLAESE
New Orleans deputy police commander W.S. Riley launched a bitter attack on the federal response to the disaster though he praised the way the evacuation was eventually handled.
...
"We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.
Riley went on: "We have been fired on with automatic weapons. We still have some thugs around. My biggest disappointment is with the federal government and the National Guard.
"The guard arrived 48 hours after the hurricane with 40 trucks. They drove their trucks in and went to sleep.
"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards. I understand why we are not winning the war in
Iraq if this is what we have."
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050903/ts_alt_afp/usweatherpolice_050903215815
Ouch.
This is what I'm talin' about. Dudes are turning on these fuckers QUICK. Shit man if a blowjob can get a dude impeached, what the fuck do these assholes have to do to even get censured??
I wish I had it in me to for a "zing" cause that was way too on point.
But think about it, if what the policeman claims is true, what kind of person would sit back and let people die when they had the means to save or help at least some?
Someone who is expressly under orders not to.
To answer your question "What the fuck is happening in Nola", I'll tell you. Quite simply, we are seeing live and direct the intersection of race and class that I speak of on here all the time. Minorities and the poor are ignored in this country, and they horrificly slow response from the government speaks volumes. Events like this fuel my pessimisism regarding race (and class) relations in this country. Instead of responding as quickly as possible, Bush has his goons out performing "image damage control" via press conferences and interviews. Send the fuckin' aid and damn the talking. It's funny how responses were much faster to tsunami relief efforts and 9/11, yet lethargic in a place that happens to be 67% Black (while New York City is 22% Black; U.S. Census Bureau, 2000).
The older I get the more I become cynical because shit hasn't changed. My wife has a redneck co-worker asking her how much money the Red Cross will send the victims of this tragedy, as if helping them will hurt her in some way. The ignorant woman doesn't realize that the Red Cross is a non-profit org. that operates on donations. This woman's mentality represents a large portion of White folks in this country, including those in power. I'm not slamming all Whites mind you, just making a point that there is an insidious element that is bent on the disenfranchisement of the downtrodden. Historically, there have been many White folks out there striving for freedom and rights for ALL people (John Brown immediately comes to mind as well as Harriet Beecher Stowe), and this continues to be the case. My question is why can't the government and/or people in general operate in pursuit of the greater good for ALL people? That's my issue in a nutshell.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
The more I think about this shit, the more it scares me. Shits almost on some mild genocide shit right now and I really can't see it getting better.
Not feeling slammed, but I think the "insidious element" is the group of people that has an excess of money and have lost touched with people "across the tracks". I therefore submit to you that money is the primary factor in tweeking (washing?) people's minds; much more than just skin color. We can get into the "which came first, greed or racism?" argument I suppose, but that's where I think things stand.
I still feel that most people equate 'black' with 'poor', and vice versa, so an argument is a moot point, IMO.
We in this household have taken to calling this entire scene (beginning with the Inaugaration of George W. Bush) the SLOW APOCALYPSE[/b].
Can someone, pro-Bush or not, please refer me to something actually positive that our current President has wrought?
he has brought the rest of the world together
against us
Rescue copter goes down in NOLA, Pilot and crew rescued
CNN 2 minutes ago
When he first got into office, he and A$$croft started a nationwide plan to save energy by getting people to unplug their ac adapters when not in use. They called them vampires. This would have been a great project for some minor cabinet member or one of his daughters to spearhead, but either way, the sentiment was there.
And then it all went a bit demonic.
You guys know what happened to Cooper, right?
I haven't stopped reading about this shit since it started... In Japan, so I haven't checked any real video of this.
Shit has blown my mind.
In America... The way this has been handled... the bizarre things FEMA and the military are doing (and not doing)... I just can't figure this shit out at all.
It's either complete and unexcusable incompetence, a complete breakdown of communication between different beuracracys (though they've handled other disasters fine, and even one's on foriegn soil), a complete disregard for the poor and black, a nefarious plan that we can't even imagine the purpose for, or a mix of all of the above.
Anyhow... this shit has me sad as fuck. I'm not feeling optimistic right now about where we are headed...
All this shit constantly reminds me that we are living on the Planet of the Apes.
Everywhere... not just America... everywhere.
I think this is a really big part of the equation. I think a lot of "leaders" don't understand what it means to lead. I think the Govenor (democrat) Of La might be the start of the problem. It is her job to get on the phone with the National Guard find out what resorces they have in put those resorces into motion. It is her job to get FEMA, HSA and Bush off their butts. Not just say, do something, or we need help. She needs to say, "we need to evacuate about a third of the population, about 450,000 people, we need all the buses and troop carriers we can get rolling non-stop until the job is done. They will need to bring in water and blankets on the return trips. How many blankets do you have.. well find another 200,000 now" And not stop working those phones and barking commands until the job is done.
I am not excusing FEMA and HSA. Bush has fucked those agencies up to the point where they are a bunch of ideologs who are only concerned about pretending to fight terrorism and care nothing about dealing with disasters. This would have been a 1,000 times worse if it had been terrorists blowing up 4 levies during Mardi Gras. They had no plan to deal with that, let alone a known risk like the one that happened.
Of course MM has it right. The number one problem is the bulk of the guards equipment, troop carriers, water trucks, helicoptors are in Iraq. They are not in Iraq because of a national emergency, they are in Iraq because of an occupation following a vanity war. National Guard are not supposed to do occupations.
Dan
towards the middle AND ESPECIALY THE END. and you'll see what I mean.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/aaron_broussard.mov
Goddamn I need to stop looking att his cause I'm ready to fucking snap.
Your point is supported by the fact that we heard from [color:red]MAYOR NAGIN[/color] before anyone else. Yeah, where was the governor?
Also, a general question: are there any precedents for fuck ups like this? Just blatantly neglecting to respond to a national catastrophe?
I know every historical event is unique, but still, this event seems as significant as 9/11 to me if not more so. I am reminded of 9/11 when Bush was told of the events during a visit to a classroom, but continued to read some book about goats.
Domestically we are SOOO vulnerable and not handling our shit very well at all in a variety of issues.
Of course, anyone with an ear to the street cooduh told you that...
MM is getting so much traffic it wont open for me. But the Oregonian, a conserative daily had a front page story detailing how FEMA has collapsed under Bush.
Is he REALLY holding the book upside-down, or is that photoshop tomfoolery??
As amusing as it would be, it's photoshopped.