HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I'm-a keep it 100... I can appreciate a rapper who has a fuckin style of their own even if it's a wack style. I have more respect for technically wack rappers like Group Home, Mike Jones (that say-the-same-schitt-over-and-over style, simple as it is, is still a style that nobody ever did before) and even Chingy than I do for the guy who I guess is the current people's champ, Lil Weezy, who is basically just doing his best Jay-Z impersonation. Don't get me wrong, he is technically more skilled than those other dudes I mentioned. Just not real original with it IMO.
Phill, you are far too smart and a real head to continue to rely on the lame, inaccurate thinking that Lil Wayne is no more than Jay-Z impersonator.
Please be serious.
That being said, that youtube freestyle of his over Jay-Z's Show Me What You Got that so many were raving about in that other thread sounds like complete garbage to me.
^that's what ruins it for me (not any sociological critique of malls)
i think Guru overall was a dope MC. heads aren't giving him enough credit. he had skills, maybe not on the level of others, but i think he did have technical skill (see 'Check the Technique')
more importantly, i think he often dropped knowledge on the track, and that's why i like Moment of Truth so much. He sounds mature and at times wise. Songs like Robin Hood Theory or the title track are I guess i'm soft or disconnected but i appreciate positive, thoughtful, substantial lyrics
he also had some good story verses and battle rhymes
Overall, while I think Gang Starr was certainly a great rap duo, I still have them ranked well below EPMD.
WAY BELOW!!!
I??m quite surprised by that. I especially like EPMDs first two LPs and they made a serious contribution to Hip-Hop, but their MC skills are questionable as well and they were not as consistent as Gangstarr in the long run IMO.
Agreed
One of my all time fav is Bobby Jimmy doing EPMD on NY/LA Rappers.
Don't get me wrong tho. I luv me some EPMD. But those doods have their fair share of bombs.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Overall, while I think Gang Starr was certainly a great rap duo, I still have them ranked well below EPMD.
WAY BELOW!!!
and notice how everyone's comments talk about Primo's beats and not the lyrics? it's like we're talking about some shit where the lyrics aren't an integral part of the equation. And what's hip hop without lyrics???? DJ Shadow wh.... don't get me started
Gangstarr, just like Pete Rock & CL Smooth, was ALWAYS more about the beats than the raps. Which is why Moment Of Truth is a great record IMO- Primo outdid himself with the beat choppery on that bitch.
Shiiiit, the above statement also applies to A Tribe Called Quest, The Jungle Brothers ("Straight Out the Jungle"), Brand Nubian (post-Puba, think "In God We Trust"), Show and AG, Diamond, etc. Don't get it twisted, hip-hop is LARGELY about the beats.
Group Home is good. People still like it when I play Dial A Thug. You have to admit that song was cool. Plus that was a different time when people had different flows and different subject matter. You know you loved them when it came out and now your a revisionist disser!
What rap group hasn't put out some great stuff and some so so as well? The bad stuff doesn't make the classics less valuable.
Most beat makers make the rappers. Have you every listened to hip hop accapellas???? They sound dumb as shit!
People will listen to a wack rhyme over a hot beat. People wil not listen to a hot rhyme over a wack beat.
Rappers are like wrestlers. It's all about the personality and weather you respond it or not. Actual measurable skills is difficult to guage and often irrelevant.
Guru has a interesting personality and flow and that's why people don't mind his monotone style. Christ he even raps about it in Mass Appeal. It's not like he doesn't know what he's doing.
Maybe it has something to do with how malls are viewed from a white perspective vs. what it is from a black perspective possibly?
That's real, for me at least. Around my way it's synonomous with corniness, but it's probably because the main mall near me is in the rich area. I completely forgot about places like Carousel Mall (ie. gully) etc. Married with chilrins has me from all things hood.
Overall, while I think Gang Starr was certainly a great rap duo, I still have them ranked well below EPMD.
WAY BELOW!!!
and notice how everyone's comments talk about Primo's beats and not the lyrics? it's like we're talking about some shit where the lyrics aren't an integral part of the equation. And what's hip hop without lyrics???? DJ Shadow wh.... don't get me started
Gangstarr, just like Pete Rock & CL Smooth, was ALWAYS more about the beats than the raps. Which is why Moment Of Truth is a great record IMO- Primo outdid himself with the beat choppery on that bitch.
Shiiiit, the above statement also applies to A Tribe Called Quest, The Jungle Brothers ("Straight Out the Jungle"), Brand Nubian (post-Puba, think "In God We Trust"), Show and AG, Diamond, etc. Don't get it twisted, hip-hop is LARGELY about the beats.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Moment of Truth is dope.
You could also probably say that some of these "mediocre" rappers really compliment the beats nicely. And imho, in the context of the entire song that's just as important as being technically nice or tearing through a beat. I think Guru compliments Premier's beats nicely.
I'm as big a primo fan as the next guy, but I also think that Gang Starr would never have been as dope if it was'nt for Guru's style on the mic..One of the greatest duo's of all time,withoutadoubt!
Honestly though, Noz & HarveyCanal, I thought Weezy was a lot more original before he started being influenced (is that a better way to put it?) by Jay-Z. Maybe not better lyrically, but style-wise much more original. I probably need to listen to more Weezy to be able to catch the nuances that make him more than just a Hov doppelganger... you're probably right about that, but I'm honestly not hearing it (ESPECIALLY not in that Show Em What You Got freestyle)
Honestly though, Noz & HarveyCanal, I thought Weezy was a lot more original before he started being influenced (is that a better way to put it?) by Jay-Z. Maybe not better lyrically, but style-wise much more original. I probably need to listen to more Weezy to be able to catch the nuances that make him more than just a Hov doppelganger... you're probably right about that, but I'm honestly not hearing it (ESPECIALLY not in that Show Em What You Got freestyle)
I think this is on point to a degree, this whole "Lil Wayne's first album is the Carter" thing people seem to be on is kinda weak. And while on Carter and to an extent Carter II lots of this was cool, the way he'd gone from eager lil dude to laid back superstar was so neccessary I'm getting a little worn out by it now (it doesn't help when people overdo the praise like "mr. toilet i'm the shit" was a HOT RHYME or something)
i never understood the hate for group home. ok, they only had one decent album, but its a masterpiece, the beats are sick and i actually like the mcs...livin proof gets consistent play it in the ride. jeru, on the other hand, has one of the most annoying flows ever. i simply cannot listen to his albums...i love primo's beats but can't get past jeru's voice. as for gang starr, their albums other than the ownerz and no more mr. nice guy are timeless...i like gurus style...guru and preemo made albums that can be listened to without skipping a track and that says a lot.
i never understood the hate for group home. ok, they only had one decent album, but its a masterpiece, the beats are sick and i actually like the mcs...livin proof gets consistent play it in the ride. jeru, on the other hand, has one of the most annoying flows ever. i simply cannot listen to his albums...i love primo's beats but can't get past jeru's voice. as for gang starr, their albums other than the ownerz and no more mr. nice guy are timeless...i like gurus style...guru and preemo made albums that can be listened to without skipping a track and that says a lot.
I understand not liking Jeru's flow but you think Lil Dap and Malachi were much better?
Honestly though, Noz & HarveyCanal, I thought Weezy was a lot more original before he started being influenced (is that a better way to put it?) by Jay-Z. Maybe not better lyrically, but style-wise much more original. I probably need to listen to more Weezy to be able to catch the nuances that make him more than just a Hov doppelganger... you're probably right about that, but I'm honestly not hearing it (ESPECIALLY not in that Show Em What You Got freestyle)
i agree with some of what you're saying, and (not to go all deej on y'all) but i personally rate most of the block is hot over either carter.
but i've never completely bought into the whole "wayne sounds like jay" thing. that is to say, i don't think the carter is any more influenced by jay than than most any new york rapper in the early 00ts. and if he did jack jay's flow he's taking it to more interesting places than jay has in years. it also seems like a lot of his post-carter work (especially dedication 2) he's been working towards merging his current style with his earlier more bounce inspired flow.
nor do i buy the "sudden improvement" theory. dude was a nasty spitter when he was young. he's matured a lot in recent years and is clearly taking more time with his writing, but i think that has less to do with jay than it does age and the hip hop landscape (bear in mind he was working in an era where rapid release assembly line southern rap was the norm).
I returned to Moment Of Truth after cats were hattin here and Ill have to say its a good album. Classic NO. The skippable tracks are just terrible.
what are the skippable tracks? i mean some are redudant, but they were far from terrible. except for 'the mall', and thats cause the hook is a war crime.
so many bad looks in this post, I wonder how much peoples opinions have changed over the past 9 years?
cosine. Gang Starr top 5 groups easily, guru all time top tier lyricist. Youd be hard pressed to name another group with such a consistently dope output. They dont have a mediocre album in their discography, apart from maybe no more mr nice guy.
Comments
Phill, you are far too smart and a real head to continue to rely on the lame, inaccurate thinking that Lil Wayne is no more than Jay-Z impersonator.
Please be serious.
That being said, that youtube freestyle of his over Jay-Z's Show Me What You Got that so many were raving about in that other thread sounds like complete garbage to me.
Here Today, Gone Tomorrow
now THAT is a filthy little track
^that's what ruins it for me (not any sociological critique of malls)
i think Guru overall was a dope MC. heads aren't giving him enough credit. he had skills, maybe not on the level of others, but i think he did have technical skill (see 'Check the Technique')
more importantly, i think he often dropped knowledge on the track, and that's why i like Moment of Truth so much. He sounds mature and at times wise. Songs like Robin Hood Theory or the title track are
he also had some good story verses and battle rhymes
Agreed
One of my all time fav is Bobby Jimmy doing EPMD on NY/LA Rappers.
Don't get me wrong tho. I luv me some EPMD. But those doods have their fair share of bombs.
Shiiiit, the above statement also applies to A Tribe Called Quest, The Jungle Brothers ("Straight Out the Jungle"), Brand Nubian (post-Puba, think "In God We Trust"), Show and AG, Diamond, etc. Don't get it twisted, hip-hop is LARGELY about the beats.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
What rap group hasn't put out some great stuff and some so so as well? The bad stuff doesn't make the classics less valuable.
Most beat makers make the rappers. Have you every listened to hip hop accapellas???? They sound dumb as shit!
People will listen to a wack rhyme over a hot beat. People wil not listen to a hot rhyme over a wack beat.
Rappers are like wrestlers. It's all about the personality and weather you respond it or not. Actual measurable skills is difficult to guage and often irrelevant.
Guru has a interesting personality and flow and that's why people don't mind his monotone style. Christ he even raps about it in Mass Appeal. It's not like he doesn't know what he's doing.
That's real, for me at least.
Around my way it's synonomous with corniness, but it's probably because the main mall near me is in the rich area. I completely forgot about places like Carousel Mall (ie. gully) etc. Married with chilrins has
Moment of Truth is dope.
You could also probably say that some of these "mediocre" rappers really compliment the beats nicely. And imho, in the context of the entire song that's just as important as being technically nice or tearing through a beat. I think Guru compliments Premier's beats nicely.
I understand not liking Jeru's flow but you think Lil Dap and Malachi were much better?
take money money go shopping.
(heres the shitty part)
No matter what the weather, winter, spring or fall, we'll be doin it...
wicka wicka "at the mall"
i agree with some of what you're saying, and (not to go all deej on y'all) but i personally rate most of the block is hot over either carter.
but i've never completely bought into the whole "wayne sounds like jay" thing. that is to say, i don't think the carter is any more influenced by jay than than most any new york rapper in the early 00ts. and if he did jack jay's flow he's taking it to more interesting places than jay has in years. it also seems like a lot of his post-carter work (especially dedication 2) he's been working towards merging his current style with his earlier more bounce inspired flow.
nor do i buy the "sudden improvement" theory. dude was a nasty spitter when he was young. he's matured a lot in recent years and is clearly taking more time with his writing, but i think that has less to do with jay than it does age and the hip hop landscape (bear in mind he was working in an era where rapid release assembly line southern rap was the norm).
Matter of fact, I was just listening to this album in the car today. Yea, that track is rather feminine.
Did premier produce "So Called Friends"?
That song is so dope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOKPXx_r5vw
it's not bad!