The irony that I find in all the mass shootings discussions is the single-minded association of religious extremism with the Muslim faith. Historically, nearly all societies in the world have at some point used religion as justification for performing heinous acts of violence. Whether you talk about the colonization of Africa, Christian crusades, the Thirty Years War in England, the Almoravid crusades, the Panthay Rebellion, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict,. Ku Klux Klan killings during Jim Crow, etc., they all used religion (to some extent, at least) as a justification. So, the key theme as I see it is the address the psyche behind the use of religion to justify violent, extremist behavior. Some of the remedy, of course, should involve enforcing stricter gun control to keep guns away those who pose dangers to the common good. By and large, I think the major reduction in social discourse between people as a function of greater Internet usage could be a distal source of the issue. It seems to be more difficult to empathize with others when there is a general reduction in social interaction and camaraderie between people. The implication appears to be a lower sense of humanity that the anonymity of the Internet not only allows but perpetuates.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Yeah, but in recent years Islamic violence accounts for way more deaths than any other religion on this planet. It's not just Islamic extremists killing westerners its Shites and Sunnis massacring each other.
Isis is essentially a medieval ideology that is hellbent on murdering people (including Muslims) who do not swear loyalty to it. Again I am fine with this - it is just a form of population control, however it irks me when liberals try to make excuses that violence is not associated with Muslim culture. Have you read the Quran?
Please channel your inner Aslan Reza and misconstrue factual evidence to make a politically correct counter for the sake of appeasement.
Hey sergeboi,
You make way too many presumptions for me to even address your rather obtuse statement, so I won't. You've already made up your mind about my view (which I truly don't have actually, just made some off-the-cuff observations). You missed my larger point that religious extremism is a worldwide concern as it has been perpetrated by nearly all societies across history. The point was not advocacy for a particular religious doctrine (ironically, I come from a Christian background, which is why assuming can be bad), thus, I chose a variety of religions as examples across history. So, in essence, I found your response to make no sense owing to the context of my original statement. You merely presumed before reading or thinking, which is indeed your right.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
The irony that I find in all the mass shootings discussions is the single-minded association of religious extremism with the Muslim faith. Historically, nearly all societies in the world have at some point used religion as justification for performing heinous acts of violence. Whether you talk about the colonization of Africa, Christian crusades, the Thirty Years War in England, the Almoravid crusades, the Panthay Rebellion, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict,. Ku Klux Klan killings during Jim Crow, etc., they all used religion (to some extent, at least) as a justification. So, the key theme as I see it is the address the psyche behind the use of religion to justify violent, extremist behavior. Some of the remedy, of course, should involve enforcing stricter gun control to keep guns away those who pose dangers to the common good. By and large, I think the major reduction in social discourse between people as a function of greater Internet usage could be a distal source of the issue. It seems to be more difficult to empathize with others when there is a general reduction in social interaction and camaraderie between people. The implication appears to be a lower sense of humanity that the anonymity of the Internet not only allows but perpetuates.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Yeah, but in recent years Islamic violence accounts for way more deaths than any other religion on this planet. It's not just Islamic extremists killing westerners its Shites and Sunnis massacring each other.
Isis is essentially a medieval ideology that is hellbent on murdering people (including Muslims) who do not swear loyalty to it. Again I am fine with this - it is just a form of population control, however it irks me when liberals try to make excuses that violence is not associated with Muslim culture. Have you read the Quran?
Please channel your inner Aslan Reza and misconstrue factual evidence to make a politically correct counter for the sake of appeasement.
Hey,
You make way too many presumptions for me to even address your rather obtuse statement, so I won't. You've already made up your mind about my view (which I truly don't have actually, just made some off-the-cuff observations), so carry on.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Ah yes, the classic Big Stacks response to those who do not subscribe to his narrow sociological viewpoint.
I don't think I do. Please prove me wrong by showing us a religion that kills more than Islam. Isis having a medieval ideology is pretty accurate.
Again, that's not even my point. That's your point. Frankly, I don't see the utility in debating such a matter. The bigger question is why would anyone use a religious doctrine (ever) to justify violent behavior. Speculating about this latter question was the key point of my original post (i.e., In today's society, anonymity and the depersonalization of others that is possible on the Internet perpetuates extreme behavioral responses). I'll leave the denigrating part to you, as I prefer to focus on the origins of problems and how they might be solved.
If we just take Iraq, the deaths caused by Christians (US coalition forces) and those caused by extremist Muslim terrorists, the numbers are about even. Perhaps the Christians are slightly ahead.
In the US the numbers are not even close. Most murderers are Christians.
When it comes to killing people the USA is second to none.
Not really. Only a weak minded individual like you would think so. Basically he spewed the same liberal shit that he always does.
Hahaha! "Liberal shit"...LMAO!!
Dude, you're just getting up off the canvas after being starched by Stacks, and you're trying to tell dudes you're ready to fight while the man has already left the ring, untouched, and with the belt.
Not really. Only a weak minded individual like you would think so. Basically he spewed the same liberal shit that he always does.
Hahaha! "Liberal shit"...LMAO!!
Dude, you're just getting up off the canvas after being starched by Stacks, and you're trying to tell dudes you're ready to fight while the man has already left the ring, untouched, and with the belt.
Stay down, foolio.
You sound like an entitled white kid who listened to too much hip hop growing up. Bad white hip hop like Prefuse 73 or something
Hahaha!
Not even close. Is that your best?
You're like a stumbling sad drunk trying to swing wild arm-punches at someone who's 10 feet away from you, laughing at how pathetic you are.
love to see americans take the defeatist "guns are a part of our life now, and i guess there's nothing we can do about it huh?" stance when mass shootings occur in their hometown, but will flick the killswitch on any violent event that takes place outside of their borders.
shame on you.
Or people really just don't care about these deaths, which is fine. One could make the argument that the earth is overly populated and that deaths like this do not affect the greater trajectory of mankind.
If you look at the number of homicides per 100,00 people in the U.S. It is like 5.2. I don't remember the exact numbers but Finland was like 2.0 and I think Belgium was 1.7...okay so America is high for an industrialized western nation but it's not too far out of line with "peaceful" countries.
Interesting if you just look at the black homicide rate in the U.S. per 100,000 it is a staggering 19.6, while for whites it comes down to being just above 2. One thing that most researchers agree on is that the vast majority of black homicides are committed by blacks and white homicides are committed mostly by whites. So obviously there is a greater racial component to the violence in America then people are willing to aknowledge.
Ironically, vintage infants grew up in Canada thinking he was hard listening to American "gangsta rap" and now he is attacking America for its violent culture.
hey sergeboi,
keep my name out your mouth little one. you know nothing about me, and apparently very little of anything else.
keep getting them internet points, you fucking donut.
I get the general importance of wedge issues and all, but it's becoming increasingly weird to me when a president can't move the ball on an issue, even if they really want to.
Good grief. You haven't been paying attention to US politics for the last 7 years, huh?
If we just take Iraq, the deaths caused by Christians (US coalition forces) and those caused by extremist Muslim terrorists, the numbers are about even. Perhaps the Christians are slightly ahead.
In the US the numbers are not even close. Most murderers are Christians.
When it comes to killing people the USA is second to none.
There is a difference in having a majority Christian military operating under a secular nation than having an extremist religious armed force murdering civilians.
Yeah, the CIC at the time of the Iraq invasion said that he spoke to "god", and "god" told him to invade Iraq. That's hardly a secular operation.
"One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."
I get the general importance of wedge issues and all, but it's becoming increasingly weird to me when a president can't move the ball on an issue, even if they really want to.
Good grief. You haven't been paying attention to US politics for the last 7 years, huh?
Nah, I'm Canadian and we've had our own special mix of bullshit going on up here.
The irony that I find in all the mass shootings discussions is the single-minded association of religious extremism with the Muslim faith. Historically, nearly all societies in the world have at some point used religion as justification for performing heinous acts of violence. Whether you talk about the colonization of Africa, Christian crusades, the Thirty Years War in England, the Almoravid crusades, the Panthay Rebellion, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict,. Ku Klux Klan killings during Jim Crow, etc., they all used religion (to some extent, at least) as a justification. So, the key theme as I see it is the address the psyche behind the use of religion to justify violent, extremist behavior. Some of the remedy, of course, should involve enforcing stricter gun control to keep guns away those who pose dangers to the common good. By and large, I think the major reduction in social discourse between people as a function of greater Internet usage could be a distal source of the issue. It seems to be more difficult to empathize with others when there is a general reduction in social interaction and camaraderie between people. The implication appears to be a lower sense of humanity that the anonymity of the Internet not only allows but perpetuates.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Yeah, but in recent years Islamic violence accounts for way more deaths than any other religion on this planet. It's not just Islamic extremists killing westerners its Shites and Sunnis massacring each other.
Isis is essentially a medieval ideology that is hellbent on murdering people (including Muslims) who do not swear loyalty to it. Again I am fine with this - it is just a form of population control, however it irks me when liberals try to make excuses that violence is not associated with Muslim culture. Have you read the Quran?
Please channel your inner Aslan Reza and misconstrue factual evidence to make a politically correct counter for the sake of appeasement.
Hi,
I actually read both the Quran and the Bible. Guess I am the only one. Here is the thing, I couldn't really call it, they both have some really disturbing violence. It's not like I was noting down every violent notion I came over, I was just checking out the scriptures of the two largest religions in my country. They are really similar, but I wouldn't except the books of "people of the book" to be that different any way.
A bunch of right wing white supremacists nut jobs trying to take back native american land and the the govt does nothing. Seems the Feds have put on kid gloves with these guys. Worried about another Wacko type situation. When AIM tried to do the same thing They sent in the CIA and Army and you ended up with Wounded Knee.
A lot of you have great points (esp. the one about the NRA resisting anything and everything which can be construed as a prep for gun confiscation). My only stock in this dead end "debate" is that I enjoy safe, responsible, fun skeet/trap/target shooting once in a while; no paranoia or false sense of security here. Euroman likes to get pot shots in about how backward the U.S. is but I want to say a couple of things...
First, journalistic responsibility: the American news media needs to stop giving perpetrators of these shootings front page priority for weeks, months, years, on end. How many times do we need to see the same pictures of that scumbag and his ugly bitch of a wife or Adam "Deer In The Headlights" Lanza (who was fascinated by the Columbine HS killers)? It would be nice if the victims got that much shine. If the newsies are really interested in stopping these shootings, then not memorializing these fuckers would be a good start. Second, speak not on what you know not. This is not directed at anyone here; if you hate guns, fine. I understand. However, if you want to get deep with it, then at least know the basics such as how a gun works or what the law regarding firearm purchase, ownership and use actually says. It's not made secret. Phrases like "that part which attaches to the thing" do not apply. And there is no such thing as "loopholes". Either the government is enforcing the laws or not. Or they're doing a crappy job and a mostly apathetic, naive and distracted public, armed or not, cannot be counted on anyway to prevent a person in their midst from planning to kill a bunch of people up until the point of it being carried out.
I feel you Electrode. I have shot a gun a time or two.
Most often when someone says loopholes they are talking about private sales/gun show sales, where there are no background checks because federal law (and in many states) none is required. Most people agree that all gun sales should require background checks. Oregon recently passed an expanded background check law and the right wing talk folks went nuts.
Comments
Hey sergeboi,
You make way too many presumptions for me to even address your rather obtuse statement, so I won't. You've already made up your mind about my view (which I truly don't have actually, just made some off-the-cuff observations). You missed my larger point that religious extremism is a worldwide concern as it has been perpetrated by nearly all societies across history. The point was not advocacy for a particular religious doctrine (ironically, I come from a Christian background, which is why assuming can be bad), thus, I chose a variety of religions as examples across history. So, in essence, I found your response to make no sense owing to the context of my original statement. You merely presumed before reading or thinking, which is indeed your right.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Again, that's not even my point. That's your point. Frankly, I don't see the utility in debating such a matter. The bigger question is why would anyone use a religious doctrine (ever) to justify violent behavior. Speculating about this latter question was the key point of my original post (i.e., In today's society, anonymity and the depersonalization of others that is possible on the Internet perpetuates extreme behavioral responses). I'll leave the denigrating part to you, as I prefer to focus on the origins of problems and how they might be solved.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
And with such class and grace.
Respect!
In the US the numbers are not even close. Most murderers are Christians.
When it comes to killing people the USA is second to none.
Dude, you're just getting up off the canvas after being starched by Stacks, and you're trying to tell dudes you're ready to fight while the man has already left the ring, untouched, and with the belt.
Stay down, foolio.
Not even close. Is that your best?
You're like a stumbling sad drunk trying to swing wild arm-punches at someone who's 10 feet away from you, laughing at how pathetic you are.
Walk away, son.
Or, you know, keep going...
I honestly dgaf.
keep my name out your mouth little one. you know nothing about me, and apparently very little of anything else.
keep getting them internet points, you fucking donut.
manfuckwit attacked people shouting "This is for Syria".He had a knife.
3 injured, none killed.
#Youain'tnomuslimbruv
Good grief. You haven't been paying attention to US politics for the last 7 years, huh?
Yeah, the CIC at the time of the Iraq invasion said that he spoke to "god", and "god" told him to invade Iraq. That's hardly a secular operation.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa
"One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."
What's your excuse, Son?
I actually read both the Quran and the Bible. Guess I am the only one. Here is the thing, I couldn't really call it, they both have some really disturbing violence. It's not like I was noting down every violent notion I came over, I was just checking out the scriptures of the two largest religions in my country. They are really similar, but I wouldn't except the books of "people of the book" to be that different any way.
It's not easy finding anything close to neutral about this on the internet.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788
You kind of remind of of the people in this thing, sergeboi: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3349272/Pranksters-film-people-s-shocked-reactions-reading-violent-passages-Bible-told-Koran.html
You know, slightly ignorant.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/oregon-federal-building-standoff-things-to-know-1.3387696
https://www.oathkeepers.org/the-hammond-family-does/
Don't forget that this is part 2...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff
This change in the situation at Hammond seems to have come just after Obama signaled his intent to act unilaterally on gun control.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/01/obama-to-impose-new-gun-control-curbs-next-week/
Coincidence?
When AIM tried to do the same thing They sent in the CIA and Army and you ended up with Wounded Knee.
First, journalistic responsibility: the American news media needs to stop giving perpetrators of these shootings front page priority for weeks, months, years, on end. How many times do we need to see the same pictures of that scumbag and his ugly bitch of a wife or Adam "Deer In The Headlights" Lanza (who was fascinated by the Columbine HS killers)? It would be nice if the victims got that much shine. If the newsies are really interested in stopping these shootings, then not memorializing these fuckers would be a good start.
Second, speak not on what you know not. This is not directed at anyone here; if you hate guns, fine. I understand. However, if you want to get deep with it, then at least know the basics such as how a gun works or what the law regarding firearm purchase, ownership and use actually says. It's not made secret. Phrases like "that part which attaches to the thing" do not apply. And there is no such thing as "loopholes". Either the government is enforcing the laws or not. Or they're doing a crappy job and a mostly apathetic, naive and distracted public, armed or not, cannot be counted on anyway to prevent a person in their midst from planning to kill a bunch of people up until the point of it being carried out.
Most often when someone says loopholes they are talking about private sales/gun show sales, where there are no background checks because federal law (and in many states) none is required. Most people agree that all gun sales should require background checks. Oregon recently passed an expanded background check law and the right wing talk folks went nuts.