the difference in 3 point attempts between the cavs and the warriors is a strictly a matter of where in the shot clock they were taken. most of GSW's attempts were between the 10-15 sec mark of the shot clock, and cleveland/lebron's were usually panicky chucks in the last 3 seconds of it. strictly a matter of executing offense and using the 3 ball as a weapon, and not a bail out plan on a broken iso.
Lebron didn't need to do "more", other than allow his coach/team to utilize the strategy of playing from the inside out rather than the other way around. But again and again, that would have Lebron looking too much like Anthony Mason instead of Tim Hardaway...and Lebron doesn't think that's good for his public image/legacy, so of course that will never happen, even when such a strategy clearly fits the scenario as an advantage over an opponent.
LeBron just started Posting- Up recently w/ Miami.
Your asking him to play a mostly back to the basket game w/ a team that doesn't really make cuts. On top of him not really being an elite post-player w/ dominant footwork.
Chris Webber was successful in the post as a Point Power Forward because the Princeton offense had dudes cutting.
MJ and Kobe had developed the unstoppable Turn Around Jump Shot from the Post from the Guard position..
Karl Malone was never a perimeter player or (from the Post)facilitator until later in his career, when he stopped the monster jamming.
I think its too much to ask for him to become more of a true Big man after years of playing on the perimeter.
Mason was an average Post player who just bullied his way when he did get position. Dude actually ran the offense from the wing as a Point Forward when Nellie took over in NYC.
...Lebron wants to jack 7 three-pointers a game instead at a lackluster, non-winning rate...
I always see Lebron's deep field goal attempts and 3 ball attempts as a way to open the paint up more for him. He knows he isn't the best in those departments but if he can force the d' to respect that, then the floor opens up more for him and his team. Doesn't always work out that way...
This may be true as well. Once he establishes the three ball, it's pretty much game over.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
batmon said:
HarveyCanal said:
Lebron didn't need to do "more", other than allow his coach/team to utilize the strategy of playing from the inside out rather than the other way around. But again and again, that would have Lebron looking too much like Anthony Mason instead of Tim Hardaway...and Lebron doesn't think that's good for his public image/legacy, so of course that will never happen, even when such a strategy clearly fits the scenario as an advantage over an opponent.
LeBron just started Posting- Up recently w/ Miami.
Your asking him to play a mostly back to the basket game w/ a team that doesn't really make cuts. On top of him not really being an elite post-player w/ dominant footwork.
Chris Webber was successful in the post as a Point Power Forward because the Princeton offense had dudes cutting.
MJ and Kobe had developed the unstoppable Turn Around Jump Shot from the Post from the Guard position..
Karl Malone was never a perimeter player or (from the Post)facilitator until later in his career, when he stopped the monster jamming.
I think its too much to ask for him to become more of a true Big man after years of playing on the perimeter.
[According to the water cooler/espn logic, I have learned [strong] Peyton Manning is the most disrespectful player towards his coach in the history of sports ever[/strong] (since that seems to be based off of a player changing the play that was drawn up by the coach)...those audibles are a complete and total disrespect to his coach.
This is a pretty ridiculous analogy....many Quarterbacks are given the ability to call an audible. It's part of the game.....if Manning purposefully ignores his coach, acts like a petulant child when the coach is trying to do his job and tries to upstage him on national TV then you might be on to something.
The pace of play is different between the sports. In the NBA if the clock runs out and the ball is doing anything other than being an airborne shot the play/game is over. The pace between plays is different. Everything is different. Lebron doesn't have the luxury of seeing exactly how the defense is going to line up and then call an 'audible' before the action begins. The way basketball plays out, there really isn't time to call an audible towards the end of the game. You can reset/change the play etc but it isn't the same. If Lebron thinks what the coach is drawing up isn't taking into everything into account (as the best player in the NBA right now with a 100% bench team), then he calls it like he sees it and makes his decision...fuck feelings. Lastly, the football helmet masks a LOT of the stink eye that star players and quarterbacks are shooting at their coaching staff.
Based off the "Lebron's a dick because he is changing the coach's plays" argument....Manning is a piece of shit. Which is a complete JOKE because that is what masters of a sport do.
When an athlete gets the reputation of being a jerk it rarely has to do with his talent or level of performance. It has to do with how he carries himself and treats those around him. Peyton Manning may over rule his coach and call his own plays but he does it in a way that isn't offensive like say a Jay Cutler does. Cutler has the reputation of being a jerk while playing the same way every other QB does, what sets him apart is the way he carries himself and people easily recognize he's a jerk.
Lebron has a long history of being a jerk and his latest total disrespect of his coach just shows he is still the same jerk he's always been. Sure, I get it that he's the "greatest" player in the game and that some consider how he acts as "swagger", but the bottom line is some athletes get the justified reputation of being a jerk and he's near the top of the list imo.
Let me ask you this....do you consider ANY pro athlete a jerk? And if so who and why?
Let me ask you this....do you consider ANY pro athlete a jerk? And if so who and why?
Virtually ALL pro athletes that are the head of their team are most likely jerks. I think they have to be to do what they do at that level to some extent. Furthermore, I can't recall any athlete who is considered "the best player in the league" who didn't do jerk-level shit.
I'm not here to say Lebron ISN'T a jerk. Our whole convo started (probably my fault) because I was trying to point out the ridiculousness of so many sports-network talking heads saying Lebron is a jerk because he has no problem disregarding his coaches plays/advice.
Let me ask you this....do you consider ANY pro athlete a jerk?
Unless it's some domestic violence shit or murder, I think it's hard to conclude a player's character just through what's fed through media. So I personally don't really judge or care. All the assholish behavior that may be displayed on-court is acceptable. The other dudes are pros as well, and the best teammates and winners that Kobe and Jordan every played with, were those that didn't back down from the assholish behavior, but stepped up and took their own big shots. I remember vividly how D Fish wouldn't give up the rock sometimes when KB was asking for it, and would instead go create his own shit, etc.
[According to the water cooler/espn logic, I have learned [strong] Peyton Manning is the most disrespectful player towards his coach in the history of sports ever[/strong] (since that seems to be based off of a player changing the play that was drawn up by the coach)...those audibles are a complete and total disrespect to his coach.
This is a pretty ridiculous analogy....many Quarterbacks are given the ability to call an audible. It's part of the game.....if Manning purposefully ignores his coach, acts like a petulant child when the coach is trying to do his job and tries to upstage him on national TV then you might be on to something.
The pace of play is different between the sports. In the NBA if the clock runs out and the ball is doing anything other than being an airborne shot the play/game is over. The pace between plays is different. Everything is different. Lebron doesn't have the luxury of seeing exactly how the defense is going to line up and then call an 'audible' before the action begins. The way basketball plays out, there really isn't time to call an audible towards the end of the game. You can reset/change the play etc but it isn't the same. If Lebron thinks what the coach is drawing up isn't taking into everything into account (as the best player in the NBA right now with a 100% bench team), then he calls it like he sees it and makes his decision...fuck feelings. Lastly, the football helmet masks a LOT of the stink eye that star players and quarterbacks are shooting at their coaching staff.
Based off the "Lebron's a dick because he is changing the coach's plays" argument....Manning is a piece of shit. Which is a complete JOKE because that is what masters of a sport do.
When an athlete gets the reputation of being a jerk it rarely has to do with his talent or level of performance. It has to do with how he carries himself and treats those around him. Peyton Manning may over rule his coach and call his own plays but he does it in a way that isn't offensive like say a Jay Cutler does. Cutler has the reputation of being a jerk while playing the same way every other QB does, what sets him apart is the way he carries himself and people easily recognize he's a jerk.
Lebron has a long history of being a jerk and his latest total disrespect of his coach just shows he is still the same jerk he's always been. Sure, I get it that he's the "greatest" player in the game and that some consider how he acts as "swagger", but the bottom line is some athletes get the justified reputation of being a jerk and he's near the top of the list imo.
Let me ask you this....do you consider ANY pro athlete a jerk? And if so who and why?
LeBron doesn't deserve to be compared to Peyton Manning. He plays much better when it really matters than Manning could ever dream of doing. Manning grows a hockey puck in his throat almost every January.
I've seen the Peyton Manning face enough times to know he's a jerk if judged by the same standards LeBron has had to deal with.
I'm sure it was amazing playing with Lebron and not getting his touches and reading "Cavs are actually better w.o love to limit Lebron's touches" all post-season
I'm sure it was amazing playing with Lebron and not getting his touches and reading "Cavs are actually better w.o love to limit Lebron's touches" all post-season
MVP tho
Love would have opted out regardless of the outcome of the post season, regardless of his injury, regardless of the chemistry with the team. He'll probably end up staying with the Cav's anyways; but he'll make $18+ million instead of $16+ million next year. Business, man...
The only way he'll leave is if a team is stupid enough to give him a deal he can't refuse...I say 'stupid' because until he proves his ability (post shoulder injury/surgery) he's kind of a wild card. Not to mention that injury happened as a result of a foul that happens multiple times to big men in the post season....might be too fragile to throw a ton of money at, until proven otherwise.
EDIT: and I totally disagree with anyone who thinks the Cav's are 'better' without Love. Once he/Lebron/the team found their groove, it was undeniable that they all had potential together.
I'm sure it was amazing playing with Lebron and not getting his touches and reading "Cavs are actually better w.o love to limit Lebron's touches" all post-season
MVP tho
Love would have opted out regardless of the outcome of the post season, regardless of his injury, regardless of the chemistry with the team. He'll probably end up staying with the Cav's anyways; but he'll make $18+ million instead of $16+ million next year. Business, man...
The only way he'll leave is if a team is stupid enough to give him a deal he can't refuse...I say 'stupid' because until he proves his ability (post shoulder injury/surgery) he's kind of a wild card. Not to mention that injury happened as a result of a foul that happens multiple times to big men in the post season....might be too fragile to throw a ton of money at, until proven otherwise.
EDIT: and I totally disagree with anyone who thinks the Cav's are 'better' without Love. Once he/Lebron/the team found their groove, it was undeniable that they all had potential together.
Would be exciting for the Lakers if they can somehow get Cousins. Not a fan of Aldridge all that much. D'Angelo Russell pick was surprising but he should be a good pro. As much as you like Jahlil's offense, his defense sucks.
you don't like aldridge?
he's top 10 at his position in the L and has come a long way and put on 35 lbs since he was a scrawny rookie in '06.
dude is physical as all hell on offense-- just bullies his way to his spot against larger PF's and C's. He's got post up and mid-range shots, super fast footwork, is a great and willing passer and can jump out of the gym. I don't really ever see him sag on defense either.
I went to the W's/POR matchup earlier this year and he gave both Bogut and Draymond absolute fits. Had a monster game.
What's not to like?
you don't like aldridge?
he's top 10 at his position in the L and has come a long way and put on 35 lbs since he was a scrawny rookie in '06.
dude is physical as all hell on offense-- just bullies his way to his spot against larger PF's and C's. He's got post up and mid-range shots, super fast footwork, is a great and willing passer and can jump out of the gym. I don't really ever see him sag on defense either.
I went to the W's/POR matchup earlier this year and he gave both Bogut and Draymond absolute fits. Had a monster game.
What's not to like?
He has two moves on offense. One is to hesitate and drive hard to the right side of the paint, and then pulls-up. the other is a turn-around. His ass can not "jump out of the gym" lol You obviously don't know his game.
Boogie is a bruiser and gets deep post position on a consistent basis. Cousins has better defense too. Case closed.
you don't like aldridge?
he's top 10 at his position in the L and has come a long way and put on 35 lbs since he was a scrawny rookie in '06.
dude is physical as all hell on offense-- just bullies his way to his spot against larger PF's and C's. He's got post up and mid-range shots, super fast footwork, is a great and willing passer and can jump out of the gym. I don't really ever see him sag on defense either.
I went to the W's/POR matchup earlier this year and he gave both Bogut and Draymond absolute fits. Had a monster game.
What's not to like?
He has two moves on offense. One is to hesitate and drive hard to the right side of the paint, and then pulls-up. the other is a turn-around. His ass can not "jump out of the gym" lol You obviously don't know his game.
Boogie is a bruiser and gets deep post position on a consistent basis. Cousins has better defense too. Case closed.
Anyone have any knowledge they wanna drop re: the draft?
Porzingis doesn't seem like the right move for the Knicks in my fairly-uninformed opinion. Seems like they need more work than that and would have done better to use their draft position as bargaining leverage to get more than one kid.
Anyone have any knowledge they wanna drop re: the draft?
Porzingis doesn't seem like the right move for the Knicks in my fairly-uninformed opinion. Seems like they need more work than that and would have done better to use their draft position as bargaining leverage to get more than one kid.
I love the Knicks terminal train wreck....
"He has a great sense of American culture," a Kristaps Porzingis teammate told me. "He goes on WorldStarHipHop every day."
w/o quote box: i wasn't comparing aldridge to cousins. cousins is better all-around.
i'm just saying your weak-ass lakers aint getting cousins, so you better learn to like lemarcus, man.
(cousins will go to denver or some other BS where he'll waste another 3-4 seasons)
w/o quote box: i wasn't comparing aldridge to cousins. cousins is better all-around.
i'm just saying your weak-ass lakers aint getting cousins, so you better learn to like lemarcus, man.
(cousins will go to denver or some other BS where he'll waste another 3-4 seasons)
Don't talk about shit you don't know about.
Otherwise, I might have to JUMP OUT THE GYM ON YOUR ASS. Stromile Swift style
Anyone have any knowledge they wanna drop re: the draft?
Porzingis doesn't seem like the right move for the Knicks in my fairly-uninformed opinion. Seems like they need more work than that and would have done better to use their draft position as bargaining leverage to get more than one kid.
I love the Knicks terminal train wreck....
"He has a great sense of American culture," a Kristaps Porzingis teammate told me. "He goes on WorldStarHipHop every day."
Skill-wise, reminds of Yi Jianlin from a few years back. Big foreign dude with athletic ability and a nice shot; completely untested.
More so than finesse, I think those international players that have been successful don't mind playing through contact, and going balls out.
Kirilenko
Pekovic (T-wolves)
Mozgov
them dudes have carved out a nice niche for themselves with their hustle and physicality.
Anyone have any knowledge they wanna drop re: the draft?
Porzingis doesn't seem like the right move for the Knicks in my fairly-uninformed opinion. Seems like they need more work than that and would have done better to use their draft position as bargaining leverage to get more than one kid.
I love the Knicks terminal train wreck....
"He has a great sense of American culture," a Kristaps Porzingis teammate told me. "He goes on WorldStarHipHop every day."
Skill-wise, reminds of Yi Jianlin from a few years back. Big foreign dude with athletic ability and a nice shot; completely untested.
More so than finesse, I think those international players that have been successful don't mind playing through contact, and going balls out.
Kirilenko
Pekovic (T-wolves)
Mozgov
them dudes have carved out a nice niche for themselves with their hustle and physicality.
This isn't new anymore. They play just like us. Some are finesse some aren't.
Sarunas Marciulionis had the euro-step in the 80's w/ Run-TMC.
Detlef Shrempf was a SF/PF would could shoot, rebound, and pass.
Rick Smits would bang w/ all the Hall Of Famers.
Drazen Petrovic shot the shit outta the ball.
2nd year in a row Lakers strike out in signing a major free agent. Aldridge allegedly told them no. They were then looking at Greg Monroe but he just signed with the Bucks.
Comments
LeBron just started Posting- Up recently w/ Miami.
Your asking him to play a mostly back to the basket game w/ a team that doesn't really make cuts. On top of him not really being an elite post-player w/ dominant footwork.
Chris Webber was successful in the post as a Point Power Forward because the Princeton offense had dudes cutting.
MJ and Kobe had developed the unstoppable Turn Around Jump Shot from the Post from the Guard position..
Karl Malone was never a perimeter player or (from the Post)facilitator until later in his career, when he stopped the monster jamming.
I think its too much to ask for him to become more of a true Big man after years of playing on the perimeter.
Mason was an average Post player who just bullied his way when he did get position. Dude actually ran the offense from the wing as a Point Forward when Nellie took over in NYC.
This may be true as well. Once he establishes the three ball, it's pretty much game over.
I hear ya.
When an athlete gets the reputation of being a jerk it rarely has to do with his talent or level of performance. It has to do with how he carries himself and treats those around him. Peyton Manning may over rule his coach and call his own plays but he does it in a way that isn't offensive like say a Jay Cutler does. Cutler has the reputation of being a jerk while playing the same way every other QB does, what sets him apart is the way he carries himself and people easily recognize he's a jerk.
Lebron has a long history of being a jerk and his latest total disrespect of his coach just shows he is still the same jerk he's always been. Sure, I get it that he's the "greatest" player in the game and that some consider how he acts as "swagger", but the bottom line is some athletes get the justified reputation of being a jerk and he's near the top of the list imo.
Let me ask you this....do you consider ANY pro athlete a jerk? And if so who and why?
Virtually ALL pro athletes that are the head of their team are most likely jerks. I think they have to be to do what they do at that level to some extent. Furthermore, I can't recall any athlete who is considered "the best player in the league" who didn't do jerk-level shit.
I'm not here to say Lebron ISN'T a jerk. Our whole convo started (probably my fault) because I was trying to point out the ridiculousness of so many sports-network talking heads saying Lebron is a jerk because he has no problem disregarding his coaches plays/advice.
Unless it's some domestic violence shit or murder, I think it's hard to conclude a player's character just through what's fed through media. So I personally don't really judge or care. All the assholish behavior that may be displayed on-court is acceptable. The other dudes are pros as well, and the best teammates and winners that Kobe and Jordan every played with, were those that didn't back down from the assholish behavior, but stepped up and took their own big shots. I remember vividly how D Fish wouldn't give up the rock sometimes when KB was asking for it, and would instead go create his own shit, etc.
LeBron doesn't deserve to be compared to Peyton Manning. He plays much better when it really matters than Manning could ever dream of doing. Manning grows a hockey puck in his throat almost every January.
I've seen the Peyton Manning face enough times to know he's a jerk if judged by the same standards LeBron has had to deal with.
I'm sure it was amazing playing with Lebron and not getting his touches and reading "Cavs are actually better w.o love to limit Lebron's touches" all post-season
MVP tho
Love would have opted out regardless of the outcome of the post season, regardless of his injury, regardless of the chemistry with the team. He'll probably end up staying with the Cav's anyways; but he'll make $18+ million instead of $16+ million next year. Business, man...
The only way he'll leave is if a team is stupid enough to give him a deal he can't refuse...I say 'stupid' because until he proves his ability (post shoulder injury/surgery) he's kind of a wild card. Not to mention that injury happened as a result of a foul that happens multiple times to big men in the post season....might be too fragile to throw a ton of money at, until proven otherwise.
EDIT: and I totally disagree with anyone who thinks the Cav's are 'better' without Love. Once he/Lebron/the team found their groove, it was undeniable that they all had potential together.
but he's not a free agent
LOVE AND JR TO THE KNICKS
From what I read Cavs may not keep Love. If they keep him and sign Thompson to a big contract they will be way over the cap for years.
he's top 10 at his position in the L and has come a long way and put on 35 lbs since he was a scrawny rookie in '06.
dude is physical as all hell on offense-- just bullies his way to his spot against larger PF's and C's. He's got post up and mid-range shots, super fast footwork, is a great and willing passer and can jump out of the gym. I don't really ever see him sag on defense either.
I went to the W's/POR matchup earlier this year and he gave both Bogut and Draymond absolute fits. Had a monster game.
What's not to like?
He has two moves on offense. One is to hesitate and drive hard to the right side of the paint, and then pulls-up. the other is a turn-around. His ass can not "jump out of the gym" lol You obviously don't know his game.
Boogie is a bruiser and gets deep post position on a consistent basis. Cousins has better defense too. Case closed.
Bingo.
Aldridge is better in the locker room though.
Porzingis doesn't seem like the right move for the Knicks in my fairly-uninformed opinion. Seems like they need more work than that and would have done better to use their draft position as bargaining leverage to get more than one kid.
I love the Knicks terminal train wreck....
"He has a great sense of American culture," a Kristaps Porzingis teammate told me. "He goes on WorldStarHipHop every day."
i'm just saying your weak-ass lakers aint getting cousins, so you better learn to like lemarcus, man.
(cousins will go to denver or some other BS where he'll waste another 3-4 seasons)
Don't talk about shit you don't know about.
Otherwise, I might have to JUMP OUT THE GYM ON YOUR ASS. Stromile Swift style
Skill-wise, reminds of Yi Jianlin from a few years back. Big foreign dude with athletic ability and a nice shot; completely untested.
More so than finesse, I think those international players that have been successful don't mind playing through contact, and going balls out.
Kirilenko
Pekovic (T-wolves)
Mozgov
them dudes have carved out a nice niche for themselves with their hustle and physicality.
This isn't new anymore. They play just like us. Some are finesse some aren't.
Sarunas Marciulionis had the euro-step in the 80's w/ Run-TMC.
Detlef Shrempf was a SF/PF would could shoot, rebound, and pass.
Rick Smits would bang w/ all the Hall Of Famers.
Drazen Petrovic shot the shit outta the ball.
None of them dudes were soft.
I think this is the bottom line in the ones you mentioned as well as the ones that have proved their worth over the years.
5 year, 145 million for Anthony Davis.
5 year 90 mil for Jimmy Butler.
5year 90 mil for Goran Dragic.
5 year 110 mil for Kevin Love.