I actually came to like Ed after listening to him talk. The idea that you can't be led by a guy cause he's a little nerdy seems pretty abhorant to me, especial when you look and the wet puddle that actually got voted in.
Yeah, I'm being harsh on Ed. If only he'd learnt how to eat a bacon sarnie properly.
I didn't mean that as some kind of personal castigation Duderoony. it was more a reaction to the way he's been so personally attacked during this election. I get that people want a leader they want to follow, but in this day and age we should know better. Ed was someone I felt could've actually been a force for good for the country in some small way, simply because he wasn't the same shit reheated.
I think he was in fact just that.
The same Oxbridge PPE grad who never had a real job, doesn't know how to eat a bacon sammich, blah blah blah.
The public's default is to not trust Lab with the economy.
Add that to the nerdiness and the fratricide and he was never getting in. Ever.
He's no Farage that's for sure.
But looking beyond the facile and rag press bullshit, a Labour party leader with the backing of a traditional Labour base and not just the next 'New Thatcherism' Blair clone, is something we haven't been offered in decades.
Now here come the £10 to see the doctor and pay for an overnight stay in hosptial moves.
Dust ain't even settled.
The last few years 60 people have died as a direct result of the Tories fucking with the most vulnerable in society, just so they could give the top bracket a tax cut. This term they're looking to cut £12 billion from welfare to the disabled, whilst the people who caused and actually made millions from the recession get more favours. Securing a brighter future, as long as you're a rich cunt.
But looking beyond the facile and rag press bullshit, a Labour party leader with the backing of a traditional Labour base and not just the next 'New Thatcherism' Blair clone, is something we haven't been offered in decades.
But Ed was ushered in by the unions and symbolically ditched the Blair New Labour tag.
He was a return to the left.
There was zero in the Lab manifesto for the big tract of Britain that lies outside of that ZHC/benefit slot.
And the country rejected it.
Staying left, or moving more left = unelectable.
I'm sure you have fair idea already.. Personally it's beyond me why anyone votes Tory, mainly because the kind of socialist principles instilled in me from a very early age.
But to take a guess.. Because 'I'm alright Jack'. Because unfortunately a lot of people are inherently selfish and until something actually affects them directly they couldn't give a fuck about it, so having a few extra grand in their paycheck so they can go on a second holiday is more important than helping a family struggling to get by with a disabled child. Because the press are incredibly partisan and most support the right. Because, as we learnt from previous elections including the Scottish referendum most recently, there are a bunch of people who float about in the middle not really having enough of a mind to make up, who in the end just go with the status quo because everything else is different and scary. Because the sub prime crisis dirtied the Labour brand severely and they did a really poor job of trying to rectify that. In fact they ran a poor election in general and their choice for leader was onto a loser from day one based purely on how he talked/looked and electing a government has become more about personality than policy. Because our voting system is arcane, over a million people voted for the Green party yet their voice has zero representation. Because people are stupid and despite the amount of harm Tory governments have done to our country in the past, until it actually hits them or their wallets directly they're oblivious.
But looking beyond the facile and rag press bullshit, a Labour party leader with the backing of a traditional Labour base and not just the next 'New Thatcherism' Blair clone, is something we haven't been offered in decades.
But Ed was ushered in by the unions and symbolically ditched the Blair New Labour tag.
He was a return to the left.
There was zero in the Lab manifesto for the big tract of Britain that lies outside of that ZHC/benefit slot.
And the country rejected it.
Staying left, or moving more left = unelectable.
I doubt the country even knew what was in the manifesto, of either side. And yes, depressing as it is, England is a right leaning country, even though a lot of the things they most treasure were put into place by leftwing governments. go figure.
1m greens get 1 seat, 4m Ukips get 1 seat.
Last time I voted was for PR.
Didn't happen, ergo don't vote no mo.
Being outside, having no dog in the fight, working in a bank where the roof came off when Balls got ousted, going back to my roots often and seeing the need mixed with lack of gumption....
From my viewing point, the Left is all but dead as a credible force. The potential leaders, post Ed, are all on a loser. Metro elite, uninspiring.
Chuka is arrogant and won't play well in the North, where UKIP were second placed. Even wimmins don't like Yvette. The other girl needs a complete repolish but is on a better trajectory with her centrist words. But basically all have Zero chance unless Tory boy goes mentalist.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
skel said:
So, genuine Q with no side: if they are so bad, why didn't they get voted out?
Because over the decades, they've managed to successfully sell the idea that it's OK to be a selfish cunt and make "what's in it for [strong]me[/strong]?" (note the emphasis) the only question to ask a politician when it's time to vote, and the only question a politician really needs to answer. Just be careful you don't actually admit to having voted for them.
Until Lab ditch the meme that only THEY care, and Tories throw OAPs out of fifth floor hospital windows, they will be unelectable.
The people look at this childishness and it doesn't chime with their experience.
In other news, Blair is as rich as Croesus and Harriet is not on her uppers either.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
skel said:
Until Lab ditch the meme that only THEY care, and Tories throw OAPs out of fifth floor hospital windows, they will be unelectable.
The people look at this childishness and it doesn't chime with their experience.
In other news, Blair is as rich as Croesus and Harriet is not on her uppers either.
But they will elect a government which defaults to childishness like "Oh noes! Labour's going to sell the country out to the SNP! We must stop them!"
Since we can all now see the effects of that all-important "change" so many of us voted for five years ago, let me reach for my crystal ball and make the following predictions;
The Union: gone before the next general election - a great advert for the Conservative and [strong]Unionist[/strong] party there. At least they'll finally shut up with that moronic "UK plc" crap.
The BBC: gone by the election after that, or at best reduced to the level of a publisher with a news arm.
The NHS: gradually beaten down to (I'm guessing) a crushingly mediocre but extremely profitable purveyor of (largely) private healthcare, as opposed to the best illustration of how to do socialised medicine anywhere in the world. Shame all the people who "love" it so much aren't prepared to actually subsidise it, but that's true of so many things these days.
Poor people: Up
Sick people: Up
Riots: Up
Authoritarianism: Up
Immigration: Up (because even with all that shit going on, you're better off than you would be in Syria, Egypt, Iraq, etc)
Emigration: Up (because especially with all that shit going on, you're no better off than you would be in Spain, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Belgium, Sweden, etc)
If this place is still around in ten years' time, or even by the time May 2020 rolls around, let's reconvene and see who still feels that the taking of blahzay-blah shots at the comparative wealth of ex-PMs somehow represents a point worth making then, shall we? In the words of Ordell Robbie, it ain't gonna be me.
Spot on with the "I'm alright, Jack" comment. People holing up in dey castles, protecting what's theirs. It's come to this as the Fear of Sharing has been given the hard sell.
More convinced now that The City bankroll everyone that can influence the distribution of wealth in this country, regardless of party. Your local MP might be a grafter but there's no way anyone would make cabinet without enough skeletons in dey closet to do exactly what they are told or else. I suspect it's been this way since the dawn of The Empire.
This is why grave nonces are allowed to function in politics with impunity, expenses can be shredded with impunity and bankers can be found guilty of rigging markets to rhaip you of your pensions - yet continue with impunity. That crimes of this magnitude are allowed, all in the name of preservation of the status quo, has got me totally disillusioned.
But at the end of the day I'd rather use my vote for who I believe have the best chance of defeating the "Most-bad" lot. The most noble causes will never garner enough weight to topple the elite. And now Labour has completely lost any weight Scotland carried. "Divide and Conquer" has played out perfectly.
It feels like pissing into the wind, but hey, at least I'm getting covered by my piss.
No amount of hysterical hyperbole will get back what I want, which is a socialistic party that reps the real working people of this country.
And I don't believe that the millions who voted blue are all city banker fat cats. I don't think u believe that, either.
In fact, the City has around 2-3 hundred thousand workforce.
That accounts for say 5 constituencies?
So how to persuade them blue millions, and especially the floaters, that Lab has their interests at heart?
Because atm they believe the opposite. They believe Lab is looking to screw them over, constantly.
Nothing to add that hasn't been said (mainly by Moke, cheers), except this all adds more weight to the idea of staying in Barcelona. If England gets any more like America, I couldn't live there.
Nothing to add that hasn't been said (mainly by Moke, cheers), except this all adds more weight to the idea of staying in Barcelona. If England gets any more like America, I couldn't live there.
You mean more AWESOME!!!! And with guns!!!!
[chant/ (U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A) /chant]
The UK election actually got a decent amount of press in the States this year --- much more than I can ever remember before. I think we sent over some of our political miscreants to "help" with your election -- probably why.
Can one of you blokes educate me some more on the practical difference between Labour and the Lib Dems? In my read-ups it seemed like the Lib Dems were legitimate enough to actually take % of votes away from Labour -- much more than we have in the states when occasionally a "green" party will steal a few votes from Democrats (e.g. Al Gore & Ralph Nader vs. G. Bush circa 2000).
Nothing to add that hasn't been said (mainly by Moke, cheers), except this all adds more weight to the idea of staying in Barcelona. If England gets any more like America, I couldn't live there.
You mean more AWESOME!!!! And with guns!!!!
[chant/ (U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A) /chant]
I'm a socialist. i can't stomach current American values (regarding socialism, or more pertinently, lack of), so every time my dad asks me if I want to live there again I have to politely refuse. At the moment I can't afford to live in England, and if they follow the American model, I couldn't afford to die there either.
The news has broken that in order to "get away from it all", Ed Miliband has gone to Ibiza. He has been gracious enough to live blog his first day on the White Isle exclusively for us.
0730 (CET): I'm eating a bacon sandwich and I do not give a fuck.
That's beyond rediculous....like a f*cking Benny Hill skit.
Not sure why ballboys are aligned to the clubs as opposed to the FA's. There are probably 1000's of kids who would love to be a ballboy and could do so without being rediculously partial to the hometeam. Of course you are going to act in the favor of the club that either pays you and/or you support.
Nothing to add that hasn't been said (mainly by Moke, cheers), except this all adds more weight to the idea of staying in Barcelona. If England gets any more like America, I couldn't live there.
You mean more AWESOME!!!! And with guns!!!!
[chant/ (U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A) /chant]
I'm a socialist. i can't stomach current American values (regarding socialism, or more pertinently, lack of), so every time my dad asks me if I want to live there again I have to politely refuse. At the moment I can't afford to live in England, and if they follow the American model, I couldn't afford to die there either.
Le*, you're white, male, intelligent, from a rich western country.
Every good card in the deck.
Who's issue is it if you can't take that advantage?
The Tories?
Nothing to add that hasn't been said (mainly by Moke, cheers), except this all adds more weight to the idea of staying in Barcelona. If England gets any more like America, I couldn't live there.
You mean more AWESOME!!!! And with guns!!!!
[chant/ (U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A) /chant]
I'm a socialist. i can't stomach current American values (regarding socialism, or more pertinently, lack of), so every time my dad asks me if I want to live there again I have to politely refuse. At the moment I can't afford to live in England, and if they follow the American model, I couldn't afford to die there either.
Le*, you're white, male, intelligent, from a rich western country.
Every good card in the deck.
Who's issue is it if you can't take that advantage?
The Tories?
So in the first week the Tories are trying to scrap the Human Rights Act, scrapping or changing the Freedom Of Information Act, bringing in new Cyber-snooping laws, and bringing back fox hunting. Plus £12 bn in cuts as a continuation of their War On The Poor.
So in the first week the Tories are trying to scrap the Human Rights Act, scrapping or changing the Freedom Of Information Act, bringing in new Cyber-snooping laws, and bringing back fox hunting. Plus £12 bn in cuts as a continuation of their War On The Poor.
Not missing this shit one bit.
Bangers & mash on the other hand...
See, this kind of hysterical reaction is one reason why the left will not govern again for the forseeable. The voters thinks it's bullshit. And it is.
The HRA is not being scrapped, is it, really? And the current scheme doesn't seem to be adhered to very well, does it? Gitmo, Putin and Ukraine etc etc.
Folks need to get a grip or we/they will never wrest back some govt. (I say we as I joined Lab in the 80s, quickly bailed after realising it had been hijacked by fucking lunatics).
The strategy (philosophy) is fine, but the tactics (individual policies) are often suicide notes.
I guess I'd feel somewhat different if Labour were trying to push through exactly the same shit (although I can't see them going with fox hunting), but maybe Jimster summed it up best a page or so ago about the illusion of choice. I agree with that, but it just stings worse when it's the toff cunts.
Comments
Now here come the £10 to see the doctor and pay for an overnight stay in hosptial moves.
Dust ain't even settled.
And Balls, and Cable.
But looking beyond the facile and rag press bullshit, a Labour party leader with the backing of a traditional Labour base and not just the next 'New Thatcherism' Blair clone, is something we haven't been offered in decades.
But Ed was ushered in by the unions and symbolically ditched the Blair New Labour tag.
He was a return to the left.
There was zero in the Lab manifesto for the big tract of Britain that lies outside of that ZHC/benefit slot.
And the country rejected it.
Staying left, or moving more left = unelectable.
But to take a guess.. Because 'I'm alright Jack'. Because unfortunately a lot of people are inherently selfish and until something actually affects them directly they couldn't give a fuck about it, so having a few extra grand in their paycheck so they can go on a second holiday is more important than helping a family struggling to get by with a disabled child. Because the press are incredibly partisan and most support the right. Because, as we learnt from previous elections including the Scottish referendum most recently, there are a bunch of people who float about in the middle not really having enough of a mind to make up, who in the end just go with the status quo because everything else is different and scary. Because the sub prime crisis dirtied the Labour brand severely and they did a really poor job of trying to rectify that. In fact they ran a poor election in general and their choice for leader was onto a loser from day one based purely on how he talked/looked and electing a government has become more about personality than policy. Because our voting system is arcane, over a million people voted for the Green party yet their voice has zero representation. Because people are stupid and despite the amount of harm Tory governments have done to our country in the past, until it actually hits them or their wallets directly they're oblivious.
Last time I voted was for PR.
Didn't happen, ergo don't vote no mo.
Being outside, having no dog in the fight, working in a bank where the roof came off when Balls got ousted, going back to my roots often and seeing the need mixed with lack of gumption....
From my viewing point, the Left is all but dead as a credible force. The potential leaders, post Ed, are all on a loser. Metro elite, uninspiring.
Chuka is arrogant and won't play well in the North, where UKIP were second placed. Even wimmins don't like Yvette. The other girl needs a complete repolish but is on a better trajectory with her centrist words. But basically all have Zero chance unless Tory boy goes mentalist.
Because over the decades, they've managed to successfully sell the idea that it's OK to be a selfish cunt and make "what's in it for [strong]me[/strong]?" (note the emphasis) the only question to ask a politician when it's time to vote, and the only question a politician really needs to answer. Just be careful you don't actually admit to having voted for them.
I'm never voting Labour again.
The people look at this childishness and it doesn't chime with their experience.
In other news, Blair is as rich as Croesus and Harriet is not on her uppers either.
But they will elect a government which defaults to childishness like "Oh noes! Labour's going to sell the country out to the SNP! We must stop them!"
Since we can all now see the effects of that all-important "change" so many of us voted for five years ago, let me reach for my crystal ball and make the following predictions;
The Union: gone before the next general election - a great advert for the Conservative and [strong]Unionist[/strong] party there. At least they'll finally shut up with that moronic "UK plc" crap.
The BBC: gone by the election after that, or at best reduced to the level of a publisher with a news arm.
The NHS: gradually beaten down to (I'm guessing) a crushingly mediocre but extremely profitable purveyor of (largely) private healthcare, as opposed to the best illustration of how to do socialised medicine anywhere in the world. Shame all the people who "love" it so much aren't prepared to actually subsidise it, but that's true of so many things these days.
Poor people: Up
Sick people: Up
Riots: Up
Authoritarianism: Up
Immigration: Up (because even with all that shit going on, you're better off than you would be in Syria, Egypt, Iraq, etc)
Emigration: Up (because especially with all that shit going on, you're no better off than you would be in Spain, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Belgium, Sweden, etc)
If this place is still around in ten years' time, or even by the time May 2020 rolls around, let's reconvene and see who still feels that the taking of blahzay-blah shots at the comparative wealth of ex-PMs somehow represents a point worth making then, shall we? In the words of Ordell Robbie, it ain't gonna be me.
More convinced now that The City bankroll everyone that can influence the distribution of wealth in this country, regardless of party. Your local MP might be a grafter but there's no way anyone would make cabinet without enough skeletons in dey closet to do exactly what they are told or else. I suspect it's been this way since the dawn of The Empire.
This is why grave nonces are allowed to function in politics with impunity, expenses can be shredded with impunity and bankers can be found guilty of rigging markets to rhaip you of your pensions - yet continue with impunity. That crimes of this magnitude are allowed, all in the name of preservation of the status quo, has got me totally disillusioned.
But at the end of the day I'd rather use my vote for who I believe have the best chance of defeating the "Most-bad" lot. The most noble causes will never garner enough weight to topple the elite. And now Labour has completely lost any weight Scotland carried. "Divide and Conquer" has played out perfectly.
It feels like pissing into the wind, but hey, at least I'm getting covered by my piss.
And I don't believe that the millions who voted blue are all city banker fat cats. I don't think u believe that, either.
In fact, the City has around 2-3 hundred thousand workforce.
That accounts for say 5 constituencies?
So how to persuade them blue millions, and especially the floaters, that Lab has their interests at heart?
Because atm they believe the opposite. They believe Lab is looking to screw them over, constantly.
Nothing to add that hasn't been said (mainly by Moke, cheers), except this all adds more weight to the idea of staying in Barcelona. If England gets any more like America, I couldn't live there.
Because the public are too thick or lazy to see or listen to anything that is not placed directly in front of them.
See "Popular Music".
No point asking me, I didnt vote.
Perhaps Lab should ask them.
You mean more AWESOME!!!! And with guns!!!!
[chant/ (U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A) /chant]
The UK election actually got a decent amount of press in the States this year --- much more than I can ever remember before. I think we sent over some of our political miscreants to "help" with your election -- probably why.
Can one of you blokes educate me some more on the practical difference between Labour and the Lib Dems? In my read-ups it seemed like the Lib Dems were legitimate enough to actually take % of votes away from Labour -- much more than we have in the states when occasionally a "green" party will steal a few votes from Democrats (e.g. Al Gore & Ralph Nader vs. G. Bush circa 2000).
I'm a socialist. i can't stomach current American values (regarding socialism, or more pertinently, lack of), so every time my dad asks me if I want to live there again I have to politely refuse. At the moment I can't afford to live in England, and if they follow the American model, I couldn't afford to die there either.
http://thump.vice.com/en_uk/article/live-blog-ed-milibands-first-day-in-ibiza?utm_source=vicefbuk
The news has broken that in order to "get away from it all", Ed Miliband has gone to Ibiza. He has been gracious enough to live blog his first day on the White Isle exclusively for us.
:lol:
I'm getting a bit tired of ballboys being major c*nts.
That's beyond rediculous....like a f*cking Benny Hill skit.
Not sure why ballboys are aligned to the clubs as opposed to the FA's. There are probably 1000's of kids who would love to be a ballboy and could do so without being rediculously partial to the hometeam. Of course you are going to act in the favor of the club that either pays you and/or you support.
Le*, you're white, male, intelligent, from a rich western country.
Every good card in the deck.
Who's issue is it if you can't take that advantage?
The Tories?
Probably my issue.
Not missing this shit one bit.
Bangers & mash on the other hand...
See, this kind of hysterical reaction is one reason why the left will not govern again for the forseeable. The voters thinks it's bullshit. And it is.
The HRA is not being scrapped, is it, really? And the current scheme doesn't seem to be adhered to very well, does it? Gitmo, Putin and Ukraine etc etc.
Folks need to get a grip or we/they will never wrest back some govt. (I say we as I joined Lab in the 80s, quickly bailed after realising it had been hijacked by fucking lunatics).
The strategy (philosophy) is fine, but the tactics (individual policies) are often suicide notes.