loudness of vinyl rips (serato related)

finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
edited June 2014 in Strut Central
Whenever I digitize a song from vinyl and add it to serato, the playback is lot more quiet than the songs I bought from online stores or the ones I ripped from cds. This happens even if I normalize the ripped track to 0 db in audacity and even I use the auto gain feature in serato. The wave forms of the vinyl rips look thinner in serato as well. Am I doing something wrong or is it because of difference in mastering of vinyl and digital formats? Is there an easy fix for this issue?

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  • DustedDonDustedDon 830 Posts
    just record directly into Serato and redline it, it actually works pretty well, i've only distorted a few things and ive ripped a ton of stuff clean and loud, can take a bit of experimenting tho.

  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    Thanks for your suggestion. But on principle I don't overdrive anything in the red. I'm still using the sl1 serato interface, which is not geared for recording music. Therefore I use a superior interface to digitize music (Roland Quad Capture).
    I guess the way to level out the difference in volume is to use some sort of limiting/compression on the ripped track.

  • BeatChemistBeatChemist 1,465 Posts
    finelikewine said:
    Whenever I digitize a song from vinyl and add it to serato, the playback is lot more quiet than the songs I bought from online stores or the ones I ripped from cds. This happens even if I normalize the ripped track to 0 db in audacity and even I use the auto gain feature in serato. The wave forms of the vinyl rips look thinner in serato as well. Am I doing something wrong or is it because of difference in mastering of vinyl and digital formats? Is there an easy fix for this issue?

    Most likely something along these lines.

    When I'm sampling/ripping vinyl, I do it through one of these:

    ART USB Dual Tube Pre

    It's a two channel tube preamp that also acts as a pretty transparent optical compressor/limiter. It also has a pretty decent usb audio interface, so you can go turntable --> preamp --> laptop easily. About $100.

  • BeatChemistBeatChemist 1,465 Posts
    Software compression is another option. What program / DAW are you using to edit audio?

  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    BeatChemist said:
    Software compression is another option. What program / DAW are you using to edit audio?

    for simple recordings I use Audacity and for more complex audio processing I use abelton with it's included audio effects units..

  • DustedDonDustedDon 830 Posts
    finelikewine said:
    I'm still using the sl1 serato interface, which is not geared for recording music.

    yea, im using a 62

  • if you can find this http://www.numark.com/product/lp2cd it's dynamite. Don't settle for the shitty ion version that's still in print it's kinda wonky. it has a flash drive and a cd burner so you can test your rips.. and then when you rip em from your flash drive/cd you can rip em to flac. and that'll be i tunes level listening..

  • BeatChemistBeatChemist 1,465 Posts
    Most of the plugins that I have experience with cost $$. But you could use Ableton's limiter plugin. The most important part is to have restraint and not just slam the limiter with a really hot signal. This will lead to distortion, especially with that plugin. You might not be able to get the songs up to an iTunes-loud level. But it will certainly help things.

    Audacity probably has something similar, whether it's a compressor or limiter or what. I'm not familiar with the software though, so I can't help with it.

  • What is most likely happening is that there's some non-musical "peak" in the recording. Could be the needle drop, or a pop/click, or something that is maxing out at 0db. So normalizing won't do squat in this case.


    I don't know Audacity features all that well, but this is how you can fix it in Pro Tools:

    - Use Normalize effect to "analyze" the track. You'll get a reading like "-1.6dB" if you didn't redline your recording.
    - Locate the errant peak and highlight it.
    - Use the Gain effect, apply somewhere like -5 to -10 dB.
    - repeat as needed, Analyzing each time until there are no bad peaks.
    - Normalize.

    warning : it's a bitch to do correctly and you'll likely hear your patch ups when played loud.
    2nd warning: if the pop/click is dead centre inside of the music, don't bother. Just add Gain to the track (it will redline in a few spots briefly).

  • kicks79kicks79 1,338 Posts
    This is kind of related so I thought I'd ask.
    I used to rip shit on my old fire wire m-box with audacity and was never happy with the results.
    I'm updating my laptop and needless to say the fire wire m-box is out as well.
    Anyone got any suggestions for a replacement ? Was looking at apogee but is it worth the dollars ?

  • DuderonomyDuderonomy Haut de la Garenne 7,789 Posts
    Whenever I digitize a song from vinyl and add it to serato, the playback is lot more quiet than the songs I bought from online stores or the ones I ripped from cds [...] Is there an easy fix for this issue?

    I also had the same problem. I use the same Roland soundcard as you, some magnetic audiophile cart (name???), a Vestax 07 pro, and audacity. About 90% of my vinyl rips are noticeably quieter than a WAV or FLACC download. I didn't want to redline my files. Digitising records is a pain, because 99% of a track might peak just below the red, and if it's an old 60s-70s track, there can be one single bass drum kick that will suddenly go over and you have to re-record with just a little less gain.

    So I went back to audacity and tried to find a solution there.

    When you open audacity, the "default" display of your sound input is at the top of the screen, at the top right, sharing space with some other functions/another toolbar to the left of the screen.
    So I dragged the input toolbar down a level, and extended it (made it BIGGER). Now I could see the input level in more detail, and set the gain louder without going into the red.
    The last 10% of my audio rips are roughly at the same loudness as my digital files. I don't think I'd be able to hear a difference. I have noticed as well that digital files I've purchased look huge. I suspect that vinyl surface noise, that "warmth" that we love, is contributing an additional layer of sound which means you'll never be able to digitise a record into a sound file that looks as large/sounds quite as loud as a straight digital file.

    For the purpose of using Ableton or something, slightly quieter files won't be much of a problem as you just turn them up... better to have recorded cautiously than going for volume and getting distorted peaks IMHO.
    For burning WAVs to CDs for mixing, which is what I intend to do, I guess I'll just have to check the volume levels by ear when I'm cueing up tracks. It's a minor inconvenience.

  • spcspc 534 Posts
    Dont "redline" anything if you don't have a good (means expensive = 2000$+ per channel) ad-converter. Peaking at -12db is ok, you can normalize later. Vinyl recordings just have better dynamic range than the usual digital file you buy online, therefore the waveform look thinners. Limit 2-3 db max (use 1ms look-ahead if possible) and if you have some louder pops or clicks just cut them out or use a declicker (Isotope got some very good utilities for that).
    And for the missing volume difference at the end just use your faders.

  • serch4beatzserch4beatz Switzerland 521 Posts
    When i record from wax in adobe audition i set my mixer (rane ttm56) low on purpose (and disable the eq so its recorded like it was pressed) . After recording i use the built in gain in audition to up it to approx. -1db, as loud as possible without clipping anything.
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