Just want to pick the brains of the U.K. headz on here...
Gibbo
124 Posts
Basically, I'm a long time lurker who only registered about a year ago. Living in Ireland but moving to Bristol on Thursday to try and pursue work. As I alluded to in another thread, Ireland is economic dead weight at the minute so I decided to chance my arm elsewhere (my background is in education, so I may end up working in schools in some capacity).
Since I'm heading to somewhat greener pastures and hoping to get some fresh perspectives I had a bit of a brainwave. I've been sitting on an old college dissertation that I'd love to try and realize into a book. Basically it traces the history of sample culture from musique concrete (from Pierre Boulez et al to avant garde composers like Cage/Stockhausen) all the way up to the zenith of sampling culture in the 80's (encompassing everything from Brian Eno to Prince Paul). The premise of the book is basically an overview of the history of the culture and to present it as an art form in itself. But I'd love to expand the original to encompass things like the various legal aspects and landmark cases that occurred and their impact on how sample based music is produced.
I definitely have the bones of something interesting but was just wondering if there would be a market for such a thing? Would it be worth hitting up some publishers when I get over there? Which ones? I never really considered it up until now but I think I'd need some kind of development deal/funding to realize the project any further. Would Skel or DocMcoy have any ideas? From what I remember one or both of you have worked in related fields?
Any feedback is appreciated.
Since I'm heading to somewhat greener pastures and hoping to get some fresh perspectives I had a bit of a brainwave. I've been sitting on an old college dissertation that I'd love to try and realize into a book. Basically it traces the history of sample culture from musique concrete (from Pierre Boulez et al to avant garde composers like Cage/Stockhausen) all the way up to the zenith of sampling culture in the 80's (encompassing everything from Brian Eno to Prince Paul). The premise of the book is basically an overview of the history of the culture and to present it as an art form in itself. But I'd love to expand the original to encompass things like the various legal aspects and landmark cases that occurred and their impact on how sample based music is produced.
I definitely have the bones of something interesting but was just wondering if there would be a market for such a thing? Would it be worth hitting up some publishers when I get over there? Which ones? I never really considered it up until now but I think I'd need some kind of development deal/funding to realize the project any further. Would Skel or DocMcoy have any ideas? From what I remember one or both of you have worked in related fields?
Any feedback is appreciated.
Comments
I'm not trying to be harsh, but I know a lot of folks here can vouch that there's already an awfully big pile of this stuff out there, you know? Before you take something like that to market, you should make sure you've really got some shit.
In any case, best of luck with the move and the work.
This was my first thought as well. I would take a good hard look at what's already been done and see if you can offer something new. If not, I think you would have a hard time getting a publisher to be interested.
I haven't checked for a book on the subject matter in a long time but remember that there wasn't anything that gathered all the info 'I' would have liked to have seen in one place. Is there any books I could check out? (I remember one called 'The Ambient Century' that I was particularly impressed with). I always assumed the publishing scene was a little dead myself (i.e. who reads books anymore with all the other distractions out there).
Anyway I just wanted to get a little perspective on it. No need to apologise for criticisms, I'm pretty thick skinned. Like I said I'm using the move to try and eject myself from a bit of a rut so any and all suggestions welcome.
I've read a lot of books covering genres that I felt I had a special handle on, and not one of them managed to capture the essence as I saw it.
This is almost certainly true for any fanboy. The boy Pattrick on here is in the midst of a dissertation on the 90s j/f/s bootleg scene and has an interesting angle on how to turn ideas into a cohesive narrative with a unique twist.
This was basically my take on it. Lots of different texts had some decent content but failed to link it up in any meaningful way or did so in a very obvious/pedestrian way. Basically the bones of what I have and what I would like to pursue is something that will be in depth enough for the type of aficionado that resides on the strut but would also appeal to the casual reader (I'm aware that's one hell of a tightrope to traverse and you would need a very sympathetic publisher/editor to guide the process). All the while not descending into some watered down B.S.
In all my previous research (dated though now it is, I've no idea what's been published in the last few years) I never came across such a text and thought it was a void I could fill. Obviously I'm just kicking around some ideas/looking for opinions. I won't feel right until the Harvey/Batmon tag-team interject to tell me how shit the idea is (I jest, I hope, I honestly wouldn't have come on here expecting sugar coated responses).
It's also worth remembering that in the saturation of the post-internet age, a lot of the ideas that used to be novel and/or used to be solely the province of academia have become pretty thoroughly mainstreamed and subsequently somewhat devalued. Stockhausen begets Kraftwerk begets "Planet Rock" begets Bomb Squad begets De La Soul begets Further Reading might have blown minds and sold actual books back in the 90s (I know I bought a number of them myself), but it's since trickled down to become cliche at best .
I'm curious: What kind of music writing have you been reading/doing these years since?
As for my own background I spent that last few years immersing myself in all the great European/American tomes from the last couple of hundred years that I never made time to read before (reading that back definitely makes me sound like an arsehole, but I'm alright I promise) all the while balancing that with a career in education (I've worked in a few different areas mainly primary/secondary school teaching) with a dash of working in disadvantaged areas with 'at-risk' youths. But as with any recession these are the first areas to be hit by cutbacks so I've found myself having to migrate back to the U.K. (I lived there for a few years in my early-mid twenties) so the plan is to see if the job market is any better. I'm determined to give it a shot but won't know what the story is until I've spent a bit of time back there.
I guess this thread was to try and gauge if there's an appetite for such a book and I felt I was always sitting on the bones of one. The hard part is trying to reconcile all the various strands it would encompass without watering it down. Either that or go the Flann O'Brien route and write a work of fiction populated by talking MPC's.
Bookwise I'd find it hard to believe this kind of thing has been covered extensively over the years but one direction you could take it in to make it marketable may be to go down the the coffee table route like the recent private press book and try to tap into the "resurgence of vinyl culture" mentality.
echo'ing what james has said, yes i have seen a book of this ilk many times over and no, i have never read one that accurately expounds on the mindset impact of the actual participants of "the scene".
i guess all that proves is that it is actually kind of easy to get that book published, and with very little need for authentication. so from a business standpoint i'd say it's a pretty good decision, but if you're looking for the approval of your peers it may not be.
If you could combine it with a CD/LP release of relevant material and get a tastemeker or two to weigh in, that could put it over the top.
That's a whole 'nother level of project, though.
I guess my angle would be and a bunch of folks have touched on it is that although the subject has been done to death that a lot of what has been written seems to lack authenticity or fails to capture the vibe of 'sample culture' (for some reason I just shuddered as I typed that). I feel it's a very easy trap to fall into.
Another would be the scope of such a project. Obviously the bones of what I have would only amount to sixty pages or so and I've already highlighted a couple of areas that due to various constraints I wasn't able to delve into. In fact from what I remember the original dissertation tracks the roots in the avant garde scene from the early twentieth century through the rock/pop scene up to the early eighties and then into hip-hop of the eighties and beyond (in fact it's very New York in its scope and would have really benefited from a few more regional additions).
Anyway I guess it's something I should probably turn into a thesis instead
Sorry I neglected to mention that the genesis of the project started while I was studying for a B.A in audio engineering in London around ten years ago and I was the only one studying who'd grown up listening to hip-hop rather than rock. I worked in a major studio for awhile but it's even more of a thankless task than trying to teach English literature to teenagers.
I can definitely empathise with the whole 'doing it justice' as I been heavily involved in the skateboard scene since I was a little kid so I'm fully aware of bandwagon jumpers, vested corporate interests trying to appropriate the 'cool factor' to peddle their shite and the media's utter cluelessness when it comes to presenting it in a matter that doesn't reek of condescension.
Anyway thanks again for tolerating my brain fart.
Information has become very easy, but true feeling has only gotten harder. "Captur[ing] the vibe," as you say, is ultimately a much tougher, much rarer, and much finer thing than stating the facts or arguing the theories, and I think you're right to focus your energies there.
I think essentially that's the only consensus that's come across in whole thread 'vibes and stuff'. Or how to write something that 'real headz' will appreciate without alienating a general readership i.e. getting too technical for instance.
I know David Toop delves into a lot of the socio-economic factors that hip-hop was born out of (just as an example I can think off the top of my head) and that can factor into it also.
So basically a lot of food for thought and some avenues that could well be worthy of exploration. Thanks again.