If you want to get people excited about something, first thing you should be able to do is accurately and in few words describe what exactly it is that this something is going to do and why people would want to use it.
Setting a 650 K goal and basically telling your potential investors that if the goal is not reached, the app will not be launched and no refunds will be paid does imply a lot of self confidence but does little to inspire confidence on the consumer's side.
With Discogs, CD&LP; and ebay I think there already are plenty of online sales platforms so if you want to add something new, you should know exactly what you want to do and why your idea is better than what's already available. Personally, I'd see a good chance for an international auction platform set up to replace ebay for the sale of more collectible records. Why not partner up with Discogs and get something like this on the way?
I tried to parse through the marketing jargon to figure out what this is exactly with little success, but it does sound like you're trying to build a discogs on steroids. I'm all for having an app on my phone where I can just snap a picture of a record cover and get useful info about it right away, but unless you have a massive army of data-entry monkeys working as we speak, I don't see how you can catch up to the several years' worth of user-generated data that discogs has. And I don't see how you're going to build up a community of any sort by launching a mobile app.
he wants record stores to catalogue and database stock, john q collectro to catalogue and database cellectron, and make all of these things digital, real-time, and purchasable to anyone with a modem/smartphone. for a cut.
i see no problem with the intentions, the semantics however....
he wants record stores to catalogue and database stock, john q collectro to catalogue and database cellectron, and make all of these things digital, real-time, and purchasable to anyone with a modem/smartphone. for a cut.
I've no problem with that either, but isn't this what discogs does now? They just have a clunky interface and a shitty search feature.
he wants record stores to catalogue and database stock, john q collectro to catalogue and database cellectron, and make all of these things digital, real-time, and purchasable to anyone with a modem/smartphone. for a cut.
i see no problem with the intentions, the semantics however....
This would mean assembling a digital tidal wave of chud that once fully cataloged might reverse gravity and swallow the universe.
I'm not buying in the argument that there are record stores closing because they don't have their stock catalogued and available to the global "vinyl community". Stores close because they don't have anything anybody would want at the price they're asking.
he wants record stores to catalogue and database stock, john q collectro to catalogue and database cellectron, and make all of these things digital, real-time, and purchasable to anyone with a modem/smartphone. for a cut.
I've no problem with that either, but isn't this what discogs does now? They just have a clunky interface and a shitty search feature.
i know. i think i was just pointing out why he chose not to condense the idea to it's bare bones.
i like where your heads at, and I'm pulling for you, I just don't believe you should have strangers finance a long shot. remember, myspace was around long before Facebook, so it CAN theoretically work, you just decrease it's odds exponentially when you limit your market to less than 1% of the world.
Somewhere in the jargon I'm sure there's an offering. I'm a record nerd working in the digital music space and have been involved with few music tech start ups ...I'm not Einstein but it should be a concern that neither I nor a bunch of other Strutters can fathom the product. I just want to read a couple of lines (max) telling me what it does and why I'd like it.Hopefully, it's just fuzzy communication masking a great idea.Tying a good transactional app into realtime listening environments like Spotify and Deezer, coupled with the social engines Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc, could have a chance to grow fast and so gain some real social currency, assuming there's some useful functionality at the heart of it. Discogs, GEMM and the rest are behind on the mobile side but not for long, I'm sure. Sharpen up the message and try us again.
Nice blog find. These sorts of companies are under reported on as it's easier for the tech press to regurgitate X got funded for Y press releases. Which also creates the regrettable misconception that you need a ton of upfront cash to even get started.
5K items sold a day @ $15.00 average per unit. x365 x.08%
that's $2.19mil in annual revenue. sounds great except: http://discogs.com/team
portland is kind of a sleepy tech outlier, wages won't be Bay Area or Microsoft level.
2 sr dev @ $125K each
7 jr dev @ $90K each
6 non-technicals willing to take a salary hit to work at a cool company @$35K each
$150K office rent / webhosting / team lunches
2.19 - 1.33 = $860K a year for Kevin dude to pay himself, reinvest in his company and grow the thing. That's awesome for a hobby that spun out of control into the music community it is today. But with zero chance of getting bought by Amazon and little ability to quadruple revenues inside a year, even they would be rejected by professional venture capital.
So why should the crowd be expected to fund an app with a 5% of upending the incumbent (which is in itself a "just ok" business). Is this pitch a fluke or a greater sign of a generational sense of entitlement?
If you want to get people excited about something, first thing you should be able to do is accurately and in few words describe what exactly it is that this something is going to do and why people would want to use it.
Setting a 650 K goal and basically telling your potential investors that if the goal is not reached, the app will not be launched and no refunds will be paid does imply a lot of self confidence but does little to inspire confidence on the consumer's side.
With Discogs, CD&LP; and ebay I think there already are plenty of online sales platforms so if you want to add something new, you should know exactly what you want to do and why your idea is better than what's already available. Personally, I'd see a good chance for an international auction platform set up to replace ebay for the sale of more collectible records. Why not partner up with Discogs and get something like this on the way?
Hi Frank.
If you're going to paraphrase our terms & conditions, by all means string it together in a way that doesn't discredit our product. I've already addressed the amount we're seeking and that we'll be improving how we've communicated the milestone we are seeking funding for.
If you have never used Kickstarter or Indiegogo, please refer to those sites for an idea of how these type of things are framed so to be informed, then make a decision should you like to show us support; now or when we make improvements to the before-mentioned.
I'll be sure to chime in once in a while to see if there are any questions that haven't been answered.
Meanwhile, thank you for all of the respectful exchanges. They have informed what we'll be presenting out of our beta, which we're currently working on.
I tried to parse through the marketing jargon to figure out what this is exactly with little success, but it does sound like you're trying to build a discogs on steroids. I'm all for having an app on my phone where I can just snap a picture of a record cover and get useful info about it right away, but unless you have a massive army of data-entry monkeys working as we speak, I don't see how you can catch up to the several years' worth of user-generated data that discogs has. And I don't see how you're going to build up a community of any sort by launching a mobile app.
Discogs is not the only company that possess data on recordings. Seriously, people. The information that Discogs has was crowdsourced using scanners as a primary means of visual input technology. The rest was contributed by thought leaders and added to along the way.
With that being said, why not conduct a survey of your own? And by that I mean ask your musician-friends give to you an idea of where they make their money. Then ask them to press a record (if they already don't). Then ask them to set up a Discogs account. Then ask them to point customers to their site url to buy their record. If the current options are so appealing, if they don't already press vinyl, then they should want to after using your recommended site...right?
Similarly, ask several of the record store owners who have gone out of business to use the current options to sell off what remains of their collections that are currently sitting in storage. Watch them type a bio of these artists they remember, and watch them haggle to sell a recording. If it even gets that far, just approach them with the idea of selling online and please create a new thread and tag me in it-I'd love to know what they experienced.
Then let me know what you think would be an approach to building a product that would meet the diverse needs of all the stakeholders involved in the exchange of vinyl.
I would love to know your findings. Because this is where I'm coming from. And I believe there is a better way.
Nice blog find. These sorts of companies are under reported on as it's easier for the tech press to regurgitate X got funded for Y press releases. Which also creates the regrettable misconception that you need a ton of upfront cash to even get started.
5K items sold a day @ $15.00 average per unit. x365 x.08%
that's $2.19mil in annual revenue. sounds great except: http://discogs.com/team
portland is kind of a sleepy tech outlier, wages won't be Bay Area or Microsoft level.
2 sr dev @ $125K each
7 jr dev @ $90K each
6 non-technicals willing to take a salary hit to work at a cool company @$35K each
$150K office rent / webhosting / team lunches
2.19 - 1.33 = $860K a year for Kevin dude to pay himself, reinvest in his company and grow the thing. That's awesome for a hobby that spun out of control into the music community it is today. But with zero chance of getting bought by Amazon and little ability to quadruple revenues inside a year, even they would be rejected by professional venture capital.
So why should the crowd be expected to fund an app with a 5% of upending the incumbent (which is in itself a "just ok" business). Is this pitch a fluke or a greater sign of a generational sense of entitlement?
can you provide a cost by cost analysis of how you arrived at $650k? ( :balla: )
are these donations going towards pre-existing debts or for a product moving forward?
how do i get my money back?
Have you ever used Kickstarter or Indiegogo?
That might be a place to start if our site is new to you. We understand that everyone may not have backed a project on either platform.
Discogs gets a lot of sales because they are a front page hit on google, most frequently the top hit above ebay. I had sales on other sites that I reduced prices on that never shifted, put them on discogs and they flew out - many at double the original price elsewhere. People don't go to sites, they go to google to get the hit. Milkcrate is a cool app for discogs buyers, be even better if it had a seller interface too. I'm stil not really sure what is being added to the discogs party personally but good luck and I will check out what you do
can you provide a cost by cost analysis of how you arrived at $650k? ( :balla: )
are these donations going towards pre-existing debts or for a product moving forward?
how do i get my money back?
Have you ever used Kickstarter or Indiegogo?
That might be a place to start if our site is new to you. We understand that everyone may not have backed a project on either platform.
Osandi
Vnylst Inc.
i dont like your sociopathic inability to answer straight questions. and for that reason you'll definitely never get a dollar from me.
If you're going to paraphrase our terms & conditions, by all means string it together in a way that doesn't discredit our product. I've already addressed the amount we're seeking and that we'll be improving how we've communicated the milestone we are seeking funding for.
If you have never used Kickstarter or Indiegogo, please refer to those sites for an idea of how these type of things are framed so to be informed, then make a decision should you like to show us support; now or when we make improvements to the before-mentioned.
Why should it be relevant how Kickstarter works when your terms are entirely different?
Kickstarter sets a clear start and end date and refunds the pledged money to the backers if the funding goal is not reached.
Your terms say "Any contribution made by you is irrevocable and you shall have no right to a return of your contribution in whole or in part."
Then it says "Perks are refundable and can be returned after two weeks of receiving. Items can be returned in ???like new,??? unwashed and non-defective condition within 14 business days of purchase."
Under FAQ out of a sudden it's not 14 but 30 days: "You can return your item within 30 days in unworn, unwashed or unused condition. We will provide a shipping label and deduct the cost to ship the item back to your return address."
Are your "perks" sold as a product and will these products be refunded at their purchasing price?
Within 14 days or within 30 days?
Another quote: "Company estimates that it will need $650,000 to develop Company product lines, ship the products (perks)... "
Under FQA it says "If we fail to reach our goal, then we will not be able to finish our app, however we will ship your perks in exchange for your pledge."
How can you ship something that is still in development? And again, I'm quoting from your own terms: "Many of the perks are still in development and we will continue to make improvements to the perks as the Project is funded." To me this sounds like you are taking pre-orders and might or might not ship if the funding goal is not reached depending on product availability.
The very few and small pieces of what at first glance appears to be hands-on information that you are giving us are being contradicted by your own terms.
can you provide a cost by cost analysis of how you arrived at $650k? ( :balla: )
are these donations going towards pre-existing debts or for a product moving forward?
how do i get my money back?
Have you ever used Kickstarter or Indiegogo?
That might be a place to start if our site is new to you. We understand that everyone may not have backed a project on either platform.
Osandi
Vnylst Inc.
i dont like your sociopathic inability to answer straight questions. and for that reason you'll definitely never get a dollar from me.
^^^^ This. Not sure why I'm still even in this conversation, but I'll add...
Successful crowdfunding campaigns are based on tangible value for value. Help me fund my recording and mastering session costs, you get an early copy of the album. Help me fund my publishing costs, you get an early copy of my book. This is a very one sided effort... help me fund my development so I get a product for my company. It's not game changing enough for me to fund it just so it exists in the marketplace, so you should be more explicit in what funders are getting for their money. "Perks" ain't doin' it for anyone.
Also, funding companies does not happen all at once. You're painting a picture of your costs to maintain the business as you envision it becoming, when you should be focusing on the funds necessary to get there. My guess would be < $25K. You're a UX designer, so design a wireframe and screen concepts, specify the functional requirements in as much detail as you can, and then hire 1 iOS developer on oDesk to develop a POC. Get an individual, not a company by the way. I've had great luck with Eastern European developers. Cost effective, incredibly loyal, and also very engaging throughout the course of development. It may be cheaper in India and China, but you only get EXACTLY what you ask for, which rarely works in the software world.
Comments
And since no one's asked yet: Thriller, or Off The Wall?
Off the Wall.
I appreciate the exchange.
Peace,
Osandi
Vnylst Inc.
Setting a 650 K goal and basically telling your potential investors that if the goal is not reached, the app will not be launched and no refunds will be paid does imply a lot of self confidence but does little to inspire confidence on the consumer's side.
With Discogs, CD&LP; and ebay I think there already are plenty of online sales platforms so if you want to add something new, you should know exactly what you want to do and why your idea is better than what's already available. Personally, I'd see a good chance for an international auction platform set up to replace ebay for the sale of more collectible records. Why not partner up with Discogs and get something like this on the way?
i see no problem with the intentions, the semantics however....
I've no problem with that either, but isn't this what discogs does now? They just have a clunky interface and a shitty search feature.
This would mean assembling a digital tidal wave of chud that once fully cataloged might reverse gravity and swallow the universe.
I'm not buying in the argument that there are record stores closing because they don't have their stock catalogued and available to the global "vinyl community". Stores close because they don't have anything anybody would want at the price they're asking.
i know. i think i was just pointing out why he chose not to condense the idea to it's bare bones.
i like where your heads at, and I'm pulling for you, I just don't believe you should have strangers finance a long shot. remember, myspace was around long before Facebook, so it CAN theoretically work, you just decrease it's odds exponentially when you limit your market to less than 1% of the world.
they charge something like 8% from each sale. Do the math, yo*.
*actually, I've no clue as to how much gets sold on there, but they're probably doing alright
5000 records and CD's sold every day. No idea what average sale would be.
would you be able to tell me where it's going?
can you provide a cost by cost analysis of how you arrived at $650k? ( :balla: )
are these donations going towards pre-existing debts or for a product moving forward?
how do i get my money back?
Nice blog find. These sorts of companies are under reported on as it's easier for the tech press to regurgitate X got funded for Y press releases. Which also creates the regrettable misconception that you need a ton of upfront cash to even get started.
5K items sold a day @ $15.00 average per unit. x365 x.08%
that's $2.19mil in annual revenue. sounds great except: http://discogs.com/team
portland is kind of a sleepy tech outlier, wages won't be Bay Area or Microsoft level.
2 sr dev @ $125K each
7 jr dev @ $90K each
6 non-technicals willing to take a salary hit to work at a cool company @$35K each
$150K office rent / webhosting / team lunches
2.19 - 1.33 = $860K a year for Kevin dude to pay himself, reinvest in his company and grow the thing. That's awesome for a hobby that spun out of control into the music community it is today. But with zero chance of getting bought by Amazon and little ability to quadruple revenues inside a year, even they would be rejected by professional venture capital.
So why should the crowd be expected to fund an app with a 5% of upending the incumbent (which is in itself a "just ok" business). Is this pitch a fluke or a greater sign of a generational sense of entitlement?
Hi Frank.
If you're going to paraphrase our terms & conditions, by all means string it together in a way that doesn't discredit our product. I've already addressed the amount we're seeking and that we'll be improving how we've communicated the milestone we are seeking funding for.
If you have never used Kickstarter or Indiegogo, please refer to those sites for an idea of how these type of things are framed so to be informed, then make a decision should you like to show us support; now or when we make improvements to the before-mentioned.
I'll be sure to chime in once in a while to see if there are any questions that haven't been answered.
Meanwhile, thank you for all of the respectful exchanges. They have informed what we'll be presenting out of our beta, which we're currently working on.
Peace,
Osandi
Vnylst Inc.
Discogs is not the only company that possess data on recordings. Seriously, people. The information that Discogs has was crowdsourced using scanners as a primary means of visual input technology. The rest was contributed by thought leaders and added to along the way.
With that being said, why not conduct a survey of your own? And by that I mean ask your musician-friends give to you an idea of where they make their money. Then ask them to press a record (if they already don't). Then ask them to set up a Discogs account. Then ask them to point customers to their site url to buy their record. If the current options are so appealing, if they don't already press vinyl, then they should want to after using your recommended site...right?
Similarly, ask several of the record store owners who have gone out of business to use the current options to sell off what remains of their collections that are currently sitting in storage. Watch them type a bio of these artists they remember, and watch them haggle to sell a recording. If it even gets that far, just approach them with the idea of selling online and please create a new thread and tag me in it-I'd love to know what they experienced.
Then let me know what you think would be an approach to building a product that would meet the diverse needs of all the stakeholders involved in the exchange of vinyl.
I would love to know your findings. Because this is where I'm coming from. And I believe there is a better way.
Osandi
Vnylst Inc.
Neither.
Have you ever used Kickstarter or Indiegogo?
That might be a place to start if our site is new to you. We understand that everyone may not have backed a project on either platform.
Osandi
Vnylst Inc.
i dont like your sociopathic inability to answer straight questions. and for that reason you'll definitely never get a dollar from me.
This is a nail on the head problem.
It is not easy to find a specific seller on discogs.
b/w
As pointed out SoulCit most people are looking for a specific record, not a specific seller.
Why should it be relevant how Kickstarter works when your terms are entirely different?
Kickstarter sets a clear start and end date and refunds the pledged money to the backers if the funding goal is not reached.
Your terms say "Any contribution made by you is irrevocable and you shall have no right to a return of your contribution in whole or in part."
Then it says "Perks are refundable and can be returned after two weeks of receiving. Items can be returned in ???like new,??? unwashed and non-defective condition within 14 business days of purchase."
Under FAQ out of a sudden it's not 14 but 30 days: "You can return your item within 30 days in unworn, unwashed or unused condition. We will provide a shipping label and deduct the cost to ship the item back to your return address."
Are your "perks" sold as a product and will these products be refunded at their purchasing price?
Within 14 days or within 30 days?
Another quote: "Company estimates that it will need $650,000 to develop Company product lines, ship the products (perks)... "
Under FQA it says "If we fail to reach our goal, then we will not be able to finish our app, however we will ship your perks in exchange for your pledge."
How can you ship something that is still in development? And again, I'm quoting from your own terms: "Many of the perks are still in development and we will continue to make improvements to the perks as the Project is funded." To me this sounds like you are taking pre-orders and might or might not ship if the funding goal is not reached depending on product availability.
The very few and small pieces of what at first glance appears to be hands-on information that you are giving us are being contradicted by your own terms.
Color me puzzled.
Not yet.
What is a "preserve vinyl record experience"?
just old fashioned grifting
^^^^ This. Not sure why I'm still even in this conversation, but I'll add...
Successful crowdfunding campaigns are based on tangible value for value. Help me fund my recording and mastering session costs, you get an early copy of the album. Help me fund my publishing costs, you get an early copy of my book. This is a very one sided effort... help me fund my development so I get a product for my company. It's not game changing enough for me to fund it just so it exists in the marketplace, so you should be more explicit in what funders are getting for their money. "Perks" ain't doin' it for anyone.
Also, funding companies does not happen all at once. You're painting a picture of your costs to maintain the business as you envision it becoming, when you should be focusing on the funds necessary to get there. My guess would be < $25K. You're a UX designer, so design a wireframe and screen concepts, specify the functional requirements in as much detail as you can, and then hire 1 iOS developer on oDesk to develop a POC. Get an individual, not a company by the way. I've had great luck with Eastern European developers. Cost effective, incredibly loyal, and also very engaging throughout the course of development. It may be cheaper in India and China, but you only get EXACTLY what you ask for, which rarely works in the software world.
Haha! I've used that graphic in presentations before. Spot on.