Who plays the nice piano on his duet version of Sunny with Marva? I guess I assumed that it was JB but given the harsh light being shone on his keyboard skills I'm having some doubts.
Pretty sure that's the dee feelice trio on that
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
disco_che said:
DocMcCoy said:
Surely the worst example of "it's so out of tune, it's making our teeth itch, but it's James, so whaddyagonnado?" playing can be found on "Cross The Tracks"?
Are you talking about the Maceo & and the Macks track (I can't hear no keyboard soloing on that one.) or is there another version?
Yeah that's the one, and I'm referring to the synth hook (which is James) that's real high in the mix (because it's James) and which was left in despite being ridiculously out of tune (because, etc., etc). To me that always sounded far worse than the soloing on Shhh... for example
I think it sounds best on Sho Is Funky Down Here, though it is definitely his same wanky style, maybe even more so. but it just sounds so perfect to me in it's madness.
I love JB but this is some serious bull shit.
"Don't Mind" from this album is one of my favorite organ tracks, but I always thought it was Dave Matthews playing, not JB.
*edit - Wikipedia confirms it's Matthews on organ.
I read somewhere that some of those Fela Celluloid pressing have the sax lower in the mix because the label execs found his paying to be sub-standard. I don't know if that's true or not.
Shhhhhhh (for a little while) is amazing for what it is... so raunchy. Sho Is Funky Down Here on the other hand sounds terrible to my ears and not only because of the organ.
Who plays the nice piano on his duet version of Sunny with Marva? I guess I assumed that it was JB but given the harsh light being shone on his keyboard skills I'm having some doubts.
Surely the worst example of "it's so out of tune, it's making our teeth itch, but it's James, so whaddyagonnado?" playing can be found on "Cross The Tracks"?
Are you talking about the Maceo & and the Macks track (I can't hear no keyboard soloing on that one.) or is there another version?
Yeah that's the one, and I'm referring to the synth hook (which is James) that's real high in the mix (because it's James) and which was left in despite being ridiculously out of tune (because, etc., etc). To me that always sounded far worse than the soloing on Shhh... for example
Really? To me it's completely the opposite. "Cross the Tracks" wouldn't be the track that itis without the out of tune synth. This isn't bothering me at all but adds that kind of rawness some people talked about before. Imagine the Stetsasonic track that sampled "Cross the Tracks" with an in-tune synth-line. No way.
Soloing is always hurting me much more, because usually artists do it to display their virtuosity. A bunch of mediocre players could still form a relatively tight band and James ability is enough to blend in with his ensemble. But than this ego-thing kicks in and he does it again...
Sho Is Funky Down Here on the other hand sounds terrible to my ears and not only because of the organ.
Sho' Is Funky is not essential JB by any means. But I still like it, if only for the novelty of hearing the Godfather of Soul make an attempt at acid-rock. I should add acid-rock instrumentals, at that. I'll put this on quicker than ElectricMud.
Once when I saw James he went around the stage playing every instrument.
Maybe not everyone, I remember keys and drums for sure, and he might have tooted a horn or strummed a guitar or bass, because he wasted a big part of the show doing it.
Once he had "proven" he didn't need his band because he could do it all, with much fanfare, he played a synthtar after making a big deal how it was going to blow our minds.
That was the synthtar's only appearance in the show.
Now I was, and am, of the opinion that James can do no wrong musically, but he was so uncomfortable with that thing, and struggled to get some pitiful sounds out of it.
He messed with it because he could.
And now, let's have a moment of silence for..... ELVIS PRESLEY!
When I saw him live about 10 yrs ago he was still going strong, up to all his old antics and he brought the house down. For him the organ was home base, he'd go off and get some ladies to dance with, split it up, hollller, sweat, make sure everyone was in line, then when the heart palpitations kicked in he'd get back to the organ, catch his breath, and let the band do their thing. I don't listen to JB for his organ playing, I listen to Groove Holmes or the like. But I've never found myself thinking his material would be better off without it.
This whole discussion reminds me of an argument I once had about Miles Davis having a keyboard onstage in the 70's and 80s. It would just sit there and once in a while when he wasn't soloing (or sometimes even when he was) he would wander over to it and blast out a chord or two that seemed to have nothing to do with what the band was doing. It drove me nuts sometimes, I wished that Bob Berg or Mike Stern would just walk over and unplug the damn thing just to shut Miles up. But of course, who was going to tell the great man (be it Miles or James) to stay in his lane? The stare you would have received would probably be enough to kill you right there.
Once when I saw James he went around the stage playing every instrument.
Maybe not everyone, I remember keys and drums for sure, and he might have tooted a horn or strummed a guitar or bass, because he wasted a big part of the show doing it.
Once he had "proven" he didn't need his band because he could do it all, with much fanfare, he played a synthtar after making a big deal how it was going to blow our minds.
That was the synthtar's only appearance in the show.
Now I was, and am, of the opinion that James can do no wrong musically, but he was so uncomfortable with that thing, and struggled to get some pitiful sounds out of it.
He messed with it because he could.
And now, let's have a moment of silence for..... ELVIS PRESLEY!
This shit here is funny.
No performer has had more surreal "WTF" moments, on stage or on record, than James Brown.
Who plays the nice piano on his duet version of Sunny with Marva? I guess I assumed that it was JB but given the harsh light being shone on his keyboard skills I'm having some doubts.
Pretty sure that's the dee feelice trio on that
Confirmed.
Doh. Course it is. Thank you both. Personally, I dig JB's two fisted organ assaults.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
leon said:
The synth hook on Cross the tracks defines (the funk in) that tune! Complaining about it being out of tune, now That's blasphemy!
Just to be clear, I realise that it adds to the character of the track, and I'd never not play it for that reason. But it's still out of tune.
Haha, good call. Does Fela's "personal" approach to the sax detract from the listening experience? And what about his keyboard playing? RMI Electra-Piano plinkety-plonk for dayz. To me, it's an integral part of the feel and energy, but I realize some people think it's :shitty:. Years ago I played a Fela track for a (classically trained) trumpet player friend of mine and he was laughing at Tunde Williams' solo ("LOL, it's so na??ve"). That kind of baffled me, because listening to the music from a technical point of view wasn't that relevant in my mind garden back then, and it still isn't even though I'm more aware of that aspect today.
Where does the border between "inept" and "real people music" go? Seems like a lot of music that gets dap from the strut is performed by below-average musicians, e.g. moustache soul or kiddie funk.
Once when I saw James he went around the stage playing every instrument.
Maybe not everyone, I remember keys and drums for sure, and he might have tooted a horn or strummed a guitar or bass, because he wasted a big part of the show doing it.
Once he had "proven" he didn't need his band because he could do it all, with much fanfare, he played a synthtar after making a big deal how it was going to blow our minds.
That was the synthtar's only appearance in the show.
Now I was, and am, of the opinion that James can do no wrong musically, but he was so uncomfortable with that thing, and struggled to get some pitiful sounds out of it.
He messed with it because he could.
And now, let's have a moment of silence for..... ELVIS PRESLEY!
This shit here is funny.
No performer has had more surreal "WTF" moments, on stage or on record, than James Brown.
We need a link to the James Brown Comedy Gold thread you started a while back.
His Organ playing is the instrumental equivalent to his ???? shouts, asides and lyrics.
Once when I saw James he went around the stage playing every instrument.
Maybe not everyone, I remember keys and drums for sure, and he might have tooted a horn or strummed a guitar or bass, because he wasted a big part of the show doing it.
Once he had "proven" he didn't need his band because he could do it all, with much fanfare, he played a synthtar after making a big deal how it was going to blow our minds.
That was the synthtar's only appearance in the show.
Now I was, and am, of the opinion that James can do no wrong musically, but he was so uncomfortable with that thing, and struggled to get some pitiful sounds out of it.
He messed with it because he could.
And now, let's have a moment of silence for..... ELVIS PRESLEY!
This shit here is funny.
No performer has had more surreal "WTF" moments, on stage or on record, than James Brown.
We need a link to the James Brown Comedy Gold thread you started a while back.
His Organ playing is the instrumental equivalent to his ???? shouts, asides and lyrics.
Nashville, Johnny Cashville.
Like somebody said on that thread, during the 70s the tape was never NOT rolling at a JB session. If a cop broke down the door in the middle of a song and arrested half the band for marijuana possession, that would have wound up on the record.
I have to say, I never expected Soul Strut to be so uptight about technical playing. Don't get me wrong, JB can be atrocious on the organ, but I absolutely love shit like "Shhh ... " and the entire "Sho is Funky Down Here" album ... the weird organ playing is just part of the charm, IMO. Definitely did not expect people to be calling it "unlistenable" or whatever. Further boosting my belief that SS does not even party anymore.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Guys. Lighten up, for fuck's sake.
Once more for the record, I love "Shhh..." and "Cross The Tracks" and all the other JB craziness referred to in that other thread. I would never attempt to dispute that such flaws all go together to create the unique character of so many JB records, but they are nevertheless still flaws. I get the impression that some of you think that, by drawing attention to them, I and others are somehow attempting to take a dump on James' genius, just like those fucking jackasses who constantly assert that the handful of cheesy kid's songs Paul McCartney recorded are enough to invalidate his entire body of work. Not so. But while there has never been a time for me when "Cross The Tracks" hasn't sounded funky as fuck, neither has there been a time where that synth didn't sound weird and out of tune. It's a testament to the power of the music that such things, whether they be intentional or otherwise, cannot diminish it in the slightest.
Once more for the record, I love "Shhh..." and "Cross The Tracks" and all the other JB craziness referred to in that other thread. I would never attempt to dispute that such flaws all go together to create the unique character of so many JB records, but they are nevertheless still flaws. I get the impression that some of you think that, by drawing attention to them, I and others are somehow attempting to take a dump on James' genius, just like those fucking jackasses who constantly assert that the handful of cheesy kid's songs Paul McCartney recorded are enough to invalidate his entire body of work. Not so. But while there has never been a time for me when "Cross The Tracks" hasn't sounded funky as fuck, neither has there been a time where that synth didn't sound weird and out of tune. It's a testament to the power of the music that such things, whether they be intentional or otherwise, cannot diminish it in the slightest.
just like those fucking jackasses who constantly assert that the handful of cheesy kid's songs Paul McCartney recorded are enough to invalidate his entire body of work.
This is surely the real debate SS needs to have. It's my personal opinion that the Macca imitator who was brought in after Paul died got sick of following the company line after a few years and deliberately went out there to try and force The Man to reveal that the guy singing about his Mull or partying with Rupert The Bear on TOTPs was not the same man who gave the world Helter Skelter.
Personally some of the songs I ride for hardest were way after he "fell off".
Comments
Pretty sure that's the dee feelice trio on that
Yeah that's the one, and I'm referring to the synth hook (which is James) that's real high in the mix (because it's James) and which was left in despite being ridiculously out of tune (because, etc., etc). To me that always sounded far worse than the soloing on Shhh... for example
"Don't Mind" from this album is one of my favorite organ tracks, but I always thought it was Dave Matthews playing, not JB.
*edit - Wikipedia confirms it's Matthews on organ.
I read somewhere that some of those Fela Celluloid pressing have the sax lower in the mix because the label execs found his paying to be sub-standard. I don't know if that's true or not.
Shhhhhhh (for a little while) is amazing for what it is... so raunchy. Sho Is Funky Down Here on the other hand sounds terrible to my ears and not only because of the organ.
Confirmed.
Really? To me it's completely the opposite. "Cross the Tracks" wouldn't be the track that itis without the out of tune synth. This isn't bothering me at all but adds that kind of rawness some people talked about before. Imagine the Stetsasonic track that sampled "Cross the Tracks" with an in-tune synth-line. No way.
Soloing is always hurting me much more, because usually artists do it to display their virtuosity. A bunch of mediocre players could still form a relatively tight band and James ability is enough to blend in with his ensemble. But than this ego-thing kicks in and he does it again...
Sho' Is Funky is not essential JB by any means. But I still like it, if only for the novelty of hearing the Godfather of Soul make an attempt at acid-rock. I should add acid-rock instrumentals, at that. I'll put this on quicker than Electric Mud.
Maybe not everyone, I remember keys and drums for sure, and he might have tooted a horn or strummed a guitar or bass, because he wasted a big part of the show doing it.
Once he had "proven" he didn't need his band because he could do it all, with much fanfare, he played a synthtar after making a big deal how it was going to blow our minds.
That was the synthtar's only appearance in the show.
Now I was, and am, of the opinion that James can do no wrong musically, but he was so uncomfortable with that thing, and struggled to get some pitiful sounds out of it.
He messed with it because he could.
And now, let's have a moment of silence for..... ELVIS PRESLEY!
This shit here is funny.
No performer has had more surreal "WTF" moments, on stage or on record, than James Brown.
Doh. Course it is. Thank you both. Personally, I dig JB's two fisted organ assaults.
Just to be clear, I realise that it adds to the character of the track, and I'd never not play it for that reason. But it's still out of tune.
Haha, good call. Does Fela's "personal" approach to the sax detract from the listening experience? And what about his keyboard playing? RMI Electra-Piano plinkety-plonk for dayz. To me, it's an integral part of the feel and energy, but I realize some people think it's :shitty:. Years ago I played a Fela track for a (classically trained) trumpet player friend of mine and he was laughing at Tunde Williams' solo ("LOL, it's so na??ve"). That kind of baffled me, because listening to the music from a technical point of view wasn't that relevant in my mind garden back then, and it still isn't even though I'm more aware of that aspect today.
Where does the border between "inept" and "real people music" go? Seems like a lot of music that gets dap from the strut is performed by below-average musicians, e.g. moustache soul or kiddie funk.
We need a link to the James Brown Comedy Gold thread you started a while back.
His Organ playing is the instrumental equivalent to his ???? shouts, asides and lyrics.
Nashville, Johnny Cashville.
Like somebody said on that thread, during the 70s the tape was never NOT rolling at a JB session. If a cop broke down the door in the middle of a song and arrested half the band for marijuana possession, that would have wound up on the record.
Once more for the record, I love "Shhh..." and "Cross The Tracks" and all the other JB craziness referred to in that other thread. I would never attempt to dispute that such flaws all go together to create the unique character of so many JB records, but they are nevertheless still flaws. I get the impression that some of you think that, by drawing attention to them, I and others are somehow attempting to take a dump on James' genius, just like those fucking jackasses who constantly assert that the handful of cheesy kid's songs Paul McCartney recorded are enough to invalidate his entire body of work. Not so. But while there has never been a time for me when "Cross The Tracks" hasn't sounded funky as fuck, neither has there been a time where that synth didn't sound weird and out of tune. It's a testament to the power of the music that such things, whether they be intentional or otherwise, cannot diminish it in the slightest.
Thanks, that was neccessary.
This is surely the real debate SS needs to have. It's my personal opinion that the Macca imitator who was brought in after Paul died got sick of following the company line after a few years and deliberately went out there to try and force The Man to reveal that the guy singing about his Mull or partying with Rupert The Bear on TOTPs was not the same man who gave the world Helter Skelter.
Personally some of the songs I ride for hardest were way after he "fell off".