that's ok if you don't like it, but it's a far cry from calling the genre as nothing but talentless hacks w/ no drum programming skills.
and in regards to domu dj sets........that's the main reason I like broken beat, because it's so hard to narrow down. Lots of genres are intertwined together.
just a little background info on this song. It came out on Especial, which is a label run by Shuya Okino of Kyoto Jazz Massive. The track crossed over in a lot of genres and was picked up by Chez (house label), who asked Danny Krivit to do a re-edit. He turned them down because he felt the song was perfect as is..........To me at least that is pretty heady praise.
a very good friend of mine has his own brokenbeat label here called cute records. i really like some of his stuff, but ive been brainwashed with it for like 5 years or so.
cant say i feel for the genre tho, too predictable musically and i think most of it just lacks groove... a lil too much "i quantize my presets"??? for me.
the beat is just massively clipped / over quantised.. and very harsh to my ears.
then they loop up what sounds like some triton bruce hornsby piano loops on top.. with some cuttup hip hop vocals and then out of no where a girls voice in the back ground. oh yeah and dont forget the ubiquitus LAZER zaps every 32 bars.
it sounds like three completely differant records that just so happen to be in time with each other.. but dont actually have anything to do with each other.
quick break and repeat for 8:35 !!!!! would have been nice to drop a key change or a middle 8.. no just more bruce hornsby.
the fact that a guy like Danny Kirvit.. the one time king of edits and a man who knows more than his fair shake about dance music would call this perfect is really sad to me and speaks volumes of how hard dance music has fallen off into this head up its ass muso overly programmed attempts at serious musicianship.
well in repsonse....this is dance music afterall and the track is intended to be played by dj's in a club. The loop itself is a piano pattern that is played by Jazztronik, who is a classically trained pianist from Tokyo. I like the simplicity because it's quite catchy imo. I don't know what you really expect, because on one hand a simple piano loop is boring to you. Whereas, if dude was to go on an extended solo, you would bitch about how he's noodling excessively like a jazz fusion wanker. Can't win either way can we?
I'm not trying to convert you into something you don't dig, but you've been hating a lot lately on here. Pretty much every post I see you get involved in.....just wondering why dude?
it sounds like three completely differant records that just so happen to be in time with each other.. but dont actually have anything to do with each other.
I think you answered your own question there. One of the biggest things that attracts me to BB is that it CAN shatter all convention (not that "samurai" does that) but I distinctly remember people saying much of the same thing about something called hip hop a while back. BB kinda exists on it's own plane without too much reliance upon many (definitely not saying all) standards.
BTW, Samurai is a MASSIVE track IMO, just like much of the previous Jazztronik shit. re: feel the air rmx
it sounds like three completely differant records that just so happen to be in time with each other.. but dont actually have anything to do with each other.
I think you answered your own question there. One of the biggest things that attracts me to BB is that it CAN shatter all convention (not that "samurai" does that) but I distinctly remember people saying much of the same thing about something called hip hop a while back. BB kinda exists on it's own plane without too much reliance upon many (definitely not saying all) standards.
BTW, Samurai is a MASSIVE track IMO, just like much of the previous Jazztronik shit. re: feel the air rmx
Lets just clarify..........BB kinda exists on its own plane. Right. Kinda. Hip hop is much more multi-faceted than BB. Dont get it twisted.
If you slow down/or speed up BrokenBeat's BPM is it still BrokenBeat?
well in repsonse....this is dance music afterall and the track is intended to be played by dj's in a club. The loop itself is a piano pattern that is played by Jazztronik, who is a classically trained pianist from Tokyo. I like the simplicity because it's quite catchy imo. I don't know what you really expect, because on one hand a simple piano loop is boring to you. Whereas, if dude was to go on an extended solo, you would bitch about how he's noodling excessively like a jazz fusion wanker. Can't win either way can we?
look i see what your saying.. yes its a loop / which makes it repetitive and semi dull.. but the loop itself is on some twinkle toes bruce hornsby cheese level. I would like to hear homey break a sweat man.. hell id like to hear the DUDE not his quantised looped up performance.. is it so much to ask for a little humanity?
and the fact that he's classically trained, well maybe that's a large part of the problem.. not to hate on training and such but alot of this stuff sounds too perfect to my ears, like it was played by robots.
I'm not trying to convert you into something you don't dig, but you've been hating a lot lately on here. Pretty much every post I see you get involved in.....just wondering why dude?
now shit like this is on some other level.. dude i dont know you.. well i know your a dude on soul strut who's from toronto.. i dont know you in the real world, i dont know what you like / dislike.. and i certainly dont run a tally in my dome about what ratio of positive to negative posts you drop on here.
this shit is starting to freak me out.. i post under the same name i dj / produce under.. im not some snarky ass alias .. i just post on topics of interest to me... sometiems my opinion is negative sometimes positive.
but its starting to freak me out that people keep tabs on this shit man.. its just us dorks on hear nit pickin on music man.. not some serious real world stuff.
you're now the second person on here from toronto to drop this "dude you are always so negative" on me... and that is freaking me more than a little.
if you cant speak from the top of your head without people getting all sensitive i dont know why im on hear anymore.
a very good friend of mine has his own brokenbeat label here called cute records. i really like some of his stuff, but ive been brainwashed with it for like 5 years or so.
?? That stuff on cute records is very nice indeed.
it sounds like three completely differant records that just so happen to be in time with each other.. but dont actually have anything to do with each other.
I think you answered your own question there. One of the biggest things that attracts me to BB is that it CAN shatter all convention (not that "samurai" does that) but I distinctly remember people saying much of the same thing about something called hip hop a while back. BB kinda exists on it's own plane without too much reliance upon many (definitely not saying all) standards.
BTW, Samurai is a MASSIVE track IMO, just like much of the previous Jazztronik shit. re: feel the air rmx
Lets just clarify..........BB kinda exists on its own plane. Right. Kinda. Hip hop is much more multi-faceted than BB. Dont get it twisted.
If you slow down/or speed up BrokenBeat's BPM is it still BrokenBeat?
I disagree on both parts.
As an example that is fundamental to both musics, hip hop sticks to (for the most part) 4/4 time sigs, a much larger percentage of BB strays from that and can be as random and unquanitized as some free jazz. The DKD is worth a listen for some odd time sigs.
Slow BB is still BB, on the Donnie LP, there's a track called "Masterplan" that's like high 70's, really minimal and sparse, but BB nonetheless.
As far as influences, BB has much of the same influences, if not all, that hip hop does and can sample, interpolate or create on it's own.
Either way, I think you guys aren't really taking in enough BB to get a good fix on it.
relax, nobody is keeping tabs on you........it's just a common observation, I don't have an excel spreadsheet of you. Whether you feel it or not, people do develop personas on msg boards, it's a reflection of real life. You have your faux rillz, then the resident clowns like shig, the emo sensitive nerd like hahaha, I won't go there, but you get the gist of it. It's something very noticeable once you post here for over a week.
I'm not offended by what you're saying at all, you have a right to your opinion. I'm just trying to understand where it's coming from, and why lately it's been consistently on the negative end of things.
if you don't feel comfortable talking about it, sure we can dead this.
Agent K - Hands - oh gosh this has spoken word, it's nag champaish, so prepare yourself.
ps: I should drop the "negative" word out of this convo, since that seems to be a sensitive area. Let me rephrase and use "strong conviction" instead.
well in repsonse....this is dance music afterall and the track is intended to be played by dj's in a club. The loop itself is a piano pattern that is played by Jazztronik, who is a classically trained pianist from Tokyo. I like the simplicity because it's quite catchy imo. I don't know what you really expect, because on one hand a simple piano loop is boring to you. Whereas, if dude was to go on an extended solo, you would bitch about how he's noodling excessively like a jazz fusion wanker. Can't win either way can we?
I'm not trying to convert you into something you don't dig, but you've been hating a lot lately on here. Pretty much every post I see you get involved in.....just wondering why dude?
it sounds like three completely differant records that just so happen to be in time with each other.. but dont actually have anything to do with each other.
I think you answered your own question there. One of the biggest things that attracts me to BB is that it CAN shatter all convention (not that "samurai" does that) but I distinctly remember people saying much of the same thing about something called hip hop a while back. BB kinda exists on it's own plane without too much reliance upon many (definitely not saying all) standards.
BTW, Samurai is a MASSIVE track IMO, just like much of the previous Jazztronik shit. re: feel the air rmx
Lets just clarify..........BB kinda exists on its own plane. Right. Kinda. Hip hop is much more multi-faceted than BB. Dont get it twisted.
If you slow down/or speed up BrokenBeat's BPM is it still BrokenBeat?
I'd say yes. BB for me is all about that "broken" rhythm pattern, so there have been BB track before, I know some 70s disco tracks that are broken, I got a german hiphop track that is broken beat.
I'm not offended by what you're saying at all, you have a right to your opinion. I'm just trying to understand where it's coming from, and why lately it's been consistently on the negative end of things.
Why is having different tastes the equivalent to being "negative".
If he finds it wack and you dont, well that's that.
nah man its all cool... i just pointed it out cause it only seems to get called out by cats from toronto.
everybodies got their own thing.. if i wanted to start a post about the boystown gang i can't get all freaked if people start hating on it cause shit is gay... it is what it is.
the same musical elements that make stuff like socca and broken and dancehall and grime appealling to one audience is the same stuff that turns off another.
the beat is just massively clipped / over quantised.. and very harsh to my ears.
then they loop up what sounds like some triton bruce hornsby piano loops on top.. with some cuttup hip hop vocals and then out of no where a girls voice in the back ground. oh yeah and dont forget the ubiquitus LAZER zaps every 32 bars.
it sounds like three completely differant records that just so happen to be in time with each other.. but dont actually have anything to do with each other.
quick break and repeat for 8:35 !!!!! would have been nice to drop a key change or a middle 8.. no just more bruce hornsby.
the fact that a guy like Danny Kirvit.. the one time king of edits and a man who knows more than his fair shake about dance music would call this perfect is really sad to me and speaks volumes of how hard dance music has fallen off into this head up its ass muso overly programmed attempts at serious musicianship.
Again, I completely agree with Dubious. This is seriously banal music. Maybe if I was in a club high on life and the whatnot this would sound good, but people say the same thing about happy hardcore. That piano loop is incredibly tedious and the lazer zaps are what, supposed to be ironic? Self-parodying? Post-ironic sincere? Dance music shouldn't have to be dumb. Guys, the piano! Are you serious? I'm listening to this now and I can't believe people freak for this! This is currently a massive track?
it sounds like three completely differant records that just so happen to be in time with each other.. but dont actually have anything to do with each other.
I think you answered your own question there. One of the biggest things that attracts me to BB is that it CAN shatter all convention (not that "samurai" does that) but I distinctly remember people saying much of the same thing about something called hip hop a while back. BB kinda exists on it's own plane without too much reliance upon many (definitely not saying all) standards.
BTW, Samurai is a MASSIVE track IMO, just like much of the previous Jazztronik shit. re: feel the air rmx
Lets just clarify..........BB kinda exists on its own plane. Right. Kinda. Hip hop is much more multi-faceted than BB. Dont get it twisted.
If you slow down/or speed up BrokenBeat's BPM is it still BrokenBeat?
I'd say yes. BB for me is all about that "broken" rhythm pattern, so there have been BB track before, I know some 70s disco tracks that are broken, I got a german hiphop track that is broken beat.
I kinda disagree with this assessment, but it's hard to explain why. Sure you had "proto-broken beat" if you consider even a song like Soho's Hot Music BUT I'm not sure if it was created with the same artist intent.
For some reason, I consider Bugz' "Booty Lala" to be Broken beat although it falls more in the vain of twisted funk or just some p-funk throwback shit.
I wouldn't be surprised if BB was one of those genres that snuck back up on ya in a few years. Future raers.
I very sure that BB will be a good candidate for future raers, I think there is so much more genre bending BB stuff to come, for me it's like early 80s hiphop wise.
if dude was to go on an extended solo, you would bitch about how he's noodling excessively like a jazz fusion wanker. Can't win either way can we?
I'm not trying to convert you into something you don't dig, but you've been hating a lot lately on here. Pretty much every post I see you get involved in.....just wondering why dude?
Musicianship can exist within dancemusic; remember the Swell Session track 'music in her eyes'? the flip had a solid cut with absolutely decent soloing and I think it was considered broken.
Aser, Dubious isn't hating; he's calling it like it is.
the beat is just massively clipped / over quantised.. and very harsh to my ears.
then they loop up what sounds like some triton bruce hornsby piano loops on top.. with some cuttup hip hop vocals and then out of no where a girls voice in the back ground. oh yeah and dont forget the ubiquitus LAZER zaps every 32 bars.
it sounds like three completely differant records that just so happen to be in time with each other.. but dont actually have anything to do with each other.
quick break and repeat for 8:35 !!!!! would have been nice to drop a key change or a middle 8.. no just more bruce hornsby.
the fact that a guy like Danny Kirvit.. the one time king of edits and a man who knows more than his fair shake about dance music would call this perfect is really sad to me and speaks volumes of how hard dance music has fallen off into this head up its ass muso overly programmed attempts at serious musicianship.
Again, I completely agree with Dubious. This is seriously banal music. Maybe if I was in a club high on life and the whatnot this would sound good, but people say the same thing about happy hardcore. That piano loop is incredibly tedious and the lazer zaps are what, supposed to be ironic? Self-parodying? Post-ironic sincere? Dance music shouldn't have to be dumb. Guys, the piano! Are you serious? I'm listening to this now and I can't believe people freak for this! This is currently a massive track?[/b]
WAS a massive track. Now over a year old.
I seriously don't expect many people to like BB at all. But its still surprising to see how much people are unwilling to accept something that doesn't fall into what they're already accustomed to.
I wouldn't be surprised if BB was one of those genres that snuck back up on ya in a few years. Future raers.
I very sure that BB will be a good candidate for future raers, I think there is so much more genre bending BB stuff to come, for me it's like early 80s REGGAETON wise.
I think broken beat has serious potential but the whole nu-jazz slant on it has just fucked things up. All these "jazzy" broken beat records sound the same and it's come to the point where it's like the whole scene has melded with "nu-jazz" or just "jazzy house". I like the rhythm patterns in broken beat but please just someone lay something other than rhodes/bass/cheese vocals over the top.
if dude was to go on an extended solo, you would bitch about how he's noodling excessively like a jazz fusion wanker. Can't win either way can we?
I'm not trying to convert you into something you don't dig, but you've been hating a lot lately on here. Pretty much every post I see you get involved in.....just wondering why dude?
Musicianship can exist within dancemusic; remember the Swell Session track 'music in her eyes'? the flip had a solid cut with absolutely decent soloing and I think it was considered broken.
Aser, Dubious isn't hating; he's calling it like it is.
To imply that musicianship doesn't exist in BB is ridiculous and speaks to your, for lack of a better word, ignorance of the genre.
very true, but there are different ways to arrive at the same point.
a) I don't like it, but I can see why it would interest other people
b) I hate it, and people who listen to that shit have terrible taste in music.
your being awfully simplistic there.
why cant somebody dislike something / state the reasons why and just leave it at that.
drawing the conclusion that because someone dislikes something means they dislike that person and think the person is stupid is going over the deep end.
Comments
and in regards to domu dj sets........that's the main reason I like broken beat, because it's so hard to narrow down. Lots of genres are intertwined together.
just a little background info on this song. It came out on Especial, which is a label run by Shuya Okino of Kyoto Jazz Massive. The track crossed over in a lot of genres and was picked up by Chez (house label), who asked Danny Krivit to do a re-edit. He turned them down because he felt the song was perfect as is..........To me at least that is pretty heady praise.
never said the genre was full of dudes who can't program.. if anythign its full of dudes with TOO much programming.
cant say i feel for the genre tho, too predictable musically and i think most of it just lacks groove... a lil too much "i quantize my presets"??? for me.
again what exaclty is there to like about this?
the beat is just massively clipped / over quantised.. and very harsh to my ears.
then they loop up what sounds like some triton bruce hornsby piano loops on top.. with some cuttup hip hop vocals and then out of no where a girls voice in the back ground. oh yeah and dont forget the ubiquitus LAZER zaps every 32 bars.
it sounds like three completely differant records that just so happen to be in time with each other.. but dont actually have anything to do with each other.
quick break and repeat for 8:35 !!!!! would have been nice to drop a key change or a middle 8.. no just more bruce hornsby.
the fact that a guy like Danny Kirvit.. the one time king of edits and a man who knows more than his fair shake about dance music would call this perfect is really sad to me and speaks volumes of how hard dance music has fallen off into this head up its ass muso overly programmed attempts at serious musicianship.
I'm not trying to convert you into something you don't dig, but you've been hating a lot lately on here. Pretty much every post I see you get involved in.....just wondering why dude?
I think you answered your own question there. One of the biggest things that attracts me to BB is that it CAN shatter all convention (not that "samurai" does that) but I distinctly remember people saying much of the same thing about something called hip hop a while back. BB kinda exists on it's own plane without too much reliance upon many (definitely not saying all) standards.
BTW, Samurai is a MASSIVE track IMO, just like much of the previous Jazztronik shit. re: feel the air rmx
yup. I'm not super versed on Broken Beat but anything the Bugz in the Attic dudes touch is worth checking for.
That Silhouette Brown was pretty on point.
Lets just clarify..........BB kinda exists on its own plane. Right. Kinda.
Hip hop is much more multi-faceted than BB. Dont get it twisted.
If you slow down/or speed up BrokenBeat's BPM is it still BrokenBeat?
look i see what your saying.. yes its a loop / which makes it repetitive and semi dull.. but the loop itself is on some twinkle toes bruce hornsby cheese level. I would like to hear homey break a sweat man.. hell id like to hear the DUDE not his quantised looped up performance.. is it so much to ask for a little humanity?
and the fact that he's classically trained, well maybe that's a large part of the problem.. not to hate on training and such but alot of this stuff sounds too perfect to my ears, like it was played by robots.
now shit like this is on some other level.. dude i dont know you.. well i know your a dude on soul strut who's from toronto.. i dont know you in the real world, i dont know what you like / dislike.. and i certainly dont run a tally in my dome about what ratio of positive to negative posts you drop on here.
this shit is starting to freak me out.. i post under the same name i dj / produce under.. im not some snarky ass alias .. i just post on topics of interest to me... sometiems my opinion is negative sometimes positive.
but its starting to freak me out that people keep tabs on this shit man.. its just us dorks on hear nit pickin on music man.. not some serious real world stuff.
you're now the second person on here from toronto to drop this "dude you are always so negative" on me... and that is freaking me more than a little.
if you cant speak from the top of your head without people getting all sensitive i dont know why im on hear anymore.
That stuff on cute records is very nice indeed.
I disagree on both parts.
As an example that is fundamental to both musics, hip hop sticks to (for the most part) 4/4 time sigs, a much larger percentage of BB strays from that and can be as random and unquanitized as some free jazz. The DKD is worth a listen for some odd time sigs.
Slow BB is still BB, on the Donnie LP, there's a track called "Masterplan" that's like high 70's, really minimal and sparse, but BB nonetheless.
As far as influences, BB has much of the same influences, if not all, that hip hop does and can sample, interpolate or create on it's own.
Either way, I think you guys aren't really taking in enough BB to get a good fix on it.
I'm not offended by what you're saying at all, you have a right to your opinion. I'm just trying to understand where it's coming from, and why lately it's been consistently on the negative end of things.
if you don't feel comfortable talking about it, sure we can dead this.
Agent K - Hands - oh gosh this has spoken word, it's nag champaish, so prepare yourself.
ps: I should drop the "negative" word out of this convo, since that seems to be a sensitive area. Let me rephrase and use "strong conviction" instead.
Very nice track, didn't know that before. Thanks!
I'd say yes. BB for me is all about that "broken" rhythm pattern, so there have been
BB track before, I know some 70s disco tracks that are broken, I got a german hiphop track that is broken beat.
since when WASNT this around?
Why is having different tastes the equivalent to being "negative".
If he finds it wack and you dont, well that's that.
everybodies got their own thing.. if i wanted to start a post about the boystown gang i can't get all freaked if people start hating on it cause shit is gay... it is what it is.
the same musical elements that make stuff like socca and broken and dancehall and grime appealling to one audience is the same stuff that turns off another.
Again, I completely agree with Dubious. This is seriously banal music. Maybe if I was in a club high on life and the whatnot this would sound good, but people say the same thing about happy hardcore. That piano loop is incredibly tedious and the lazer zaps are what, supposed to be ironic? Self-parodying? Post-ironic sincere? Dance music shouldn't have to be dumb. Guys, the piano! Are you serious? I'm listening to this now and I can't believe people freak for this! This is currently a massive track?
Maybe instead of "freaking out" you should think about it.
I kinda disagree with this assessment, but it's hard to explain why. Sure you had "proto-broken beat" if you consider even a song like Soho's Hot Music BUT I'm not sure if it was created with the same artist intent.
For some reason, I consider Bugz' "Booty Lala" to be Broken beat although it falls more in the vain of twisted funk or just some p-funk throwback shit.
laalalalalaaaaa
a) I don't like it, but I can see why it would interest other people
b) I hate it, and people who listen to that shit have terrible taste in music.
see the difference?
I very sure that BB will be a good candidate for future raers, I think there is so much more genre bending BB stuff to come, for me it's like early 80s hiphop wise.
Musicianship can exist within dancemusic; remember the Swell Session track 'music in her eyes'? the flip had a solid cut with absolutely decent soloing and I think it was considered broken.
Aser, Dubious isn't hating; he's calling it like it is.
WAS a massive track. Now over a year old.
I seriously don't expect many people to like BB at all. But its still surprising to see how much people are unwilling to accept something that doesn't fall into what they're already accustomed to.
why should i think about it??? i dont see you telling this to dann agreed / reitterated expanded on everything i've said on here.
That band at the end of that clip is exactly the kind of shit I really don't like.
Finally: Cosign on Jazztronik's 'Samurai'. I thought it was way to cheesy at first but that shit really grew on me.
To imply that musicianship doesn't exist in BB is ridiculous and speaks to your, for lack of a better word, ignorance of the genre.
your being awfully simplistic there.
why cant somebody dislike something / state the reasons why and just leave it at that.
drawing the conclusion that because someone dislikes something means they dislike that person and think the person is stupid is going over the deep end.