i'm not gonna get in the whole "purity" coversation, but i will say that i have been spending a lot more on raers than i used to. the money allocated to buying new 12"s is now going to feed my inner collectro. When I get home, i record said raer to serato... simple as that. now i can play things out that i didnt want to take out of the house before. i sold all my doubles and lame shit i had for corporate gigs. Not to mention... i can really hold down those lame (but high paying) corporate gigs now. dude, i've had serato for about 3 months, and it has paid for itself 3 times over including the cost of my laptop. the day i decided to get it, was when i djed in montreal, and got caught with my pants down. young ass audience who basicall booed mary jane girls... had i had serato, i would have been able to keep them happy, but my crate was full of classics.
Olski,
I dont know what to tell you, but it would seem that the market is gonna have to switch to selling units at live performances. You'll still be able to sell #s, but it'll have to be in a more proactive way. marketing and promotion are gonna die, and the live performance will have to come back... in a way, this might be good.
and the live performance will have to come back... in a way, this might be good.
I'm sure this is how lots of dudes are paying bills now. The indy rap dudes tour like mad - I always thought this is how they make a living. I'm sure they sell units, but I'll be more willing to bet for every 1 copy of a Murs album sold, 5 are downloaded.
when i djed in montreal, and got caught with my pants down. young ass audience who basicall booed mary jane girls... had i had serato, i would have been able to keep them happy, but my crate was full of classics.
damn. you should have yelled at them and told them they didn't know that REAL SCHITT!
Digital dj-ing is cool and the future but it will also change the market for so called dj-music. The majority of independent labels that are doing Soul Strut-related music (from Jazzman to Stones Throw) are making a good part of their money from selling 45s and 12"s to DJs. Digital-DJs have no reason to buy their records anymore. I haven't met any Serato-DJ who's buying his files legally and I don't think that it will change. Even if they would it wouldn't make a big difference because the money a label and artist makes from a track sold through iTunes is a joke. Due to the technology there are too many middle-men involved.
So where do you see the future for these kinda labels?
Non-physical music is the future and every collector's nightmare. But how will people know about this hot new soundfile? Maybe labels will turn into pure promo and image-building enterprises. I don't know.
i dont 100% know how i feel about this issue either. namely since it still seems to be sorting itself out.
from my observations it seems alot of more mainstream and house oriented DJ's started switching to cdj's over the last few years already. Services like Stompy have been doing quite well by providing downloadable aifs for digital dj's. I even know of DJ's who YES pay to download new releases from services like these.
from my perspective as a label owner i think digital downloads are a good thing. Namely because my press runs are only 1000 and thus sell out pretty fast. with digital downloads you can still generate profit from your back catalogue after the 12"s are long gone.
companies like Juno in the UK are setting up new digital services and they look much nicer than itunes. both in terms of rates and in terms of options for the downloads.. namely you can do hi res aifs and such and sell 12"s on the same page.
i think there's such a ceiling on the vinyl buying market that the only way to rise above that is to get into digital... and downloading seems infinitly preferable to me than making cds.
you say "i have been spending a lot more on raers than i used to. the money allocated to buying new 12"s is now going to feed my inner collectro. " That's my point: labels that are releasing new dj-style music will suffer from digital dj-ing and downloading.
Selling units at live performances is a joke. What band/producer/label can live from that? Playing live and selling records afterwards? That is not selling any numbers. And how do you attract people to your show when your product is only available at your show?
Ask any giging band and they will tell you how hard it is to do play gigs and meet ends.
You can sell Brainfreeze this way but that only worked because there was Entroducing.
I don't want to complain but if you want to selll records today you have to be extra-proactive.
Marketing and promotion will not die. How do people learn about the next hot ish? How do you create an image ? By having free mp3s played to Serato DJs not. You have to create some kind of "hype", get reviews, do stickers, have features and so on...
I understand that the DJs and collectors on this board are not concerned about these issues. But you all should keep in mind that people will only put out new music as long as other people are buying new music.
when i djed in montreal, and got caught with my pants down. young ass audience who basicall booed mary jane girls... had i had serato, i would have been able to keep them happy, but my crate was full of classics.
damn.
you should have yelled at them and told them they didn't know that REAL SCHITT!
Serato is going to have very little affect on the vinyl buying DJs that switch to Serato. Serato isn't going to replace DJs actually buying vinyl, it's just going to replace DJs buying vinyl that they don't need (i.e. Ayres Tony Yayo example) because it's not like most are now all of a sudden completely abandoning vinyl. If there's some shit you can only get on vinyl, all Serato means now is that you can cop that vinyl-only Bmore shit or G.U.N. shit instead of that Tony Yayo single that will be outdated in two months.
If anything, Serato is gonna phase out CDs... not vinyl. In fact, I reckon Serato is going to make the vinyl market a lot healthier. It might make some vinyl stores suffer a bit (sorry Armands), but that's just part of the game.
Selling units at live performances is a joke. What band/producer/label can live from that? Playing live and selling records afterwards? That is not selling any numbers. And how do you attract people to your show when your product is only available at your show?
you say "i have been spending a lot more on raers than i used to. the money allocated to buying new 12"s is now going to feed my inner collectro. " That's my point: labels that are releasing new dj-style music will suffer from digital dj-ing and downloading.
Selling units at live performances is a joke. What band/producer/label can live from that? Playing live and selling records afterwards? That is not selling any numbers. And how do you attract people to your show when your product is only available at your show?
Ask any giging band and they will tell you how hard it is to do play gigs and meet ends.
You can sell Brainfreeze this way but that only worked because there was Entroducing.
I don't want to complain but if you want to selll records today you have to be extra-proactive.
Marketing and promotion will not die. How do people learn about the next hot ish? How do you create an image ? By having free mp3s played to Serato DJs not. You have to create some kind of "hype", get reviews, do stickers, have features and so on...
I understand that the DJs and collectors on this board are not concerned about these issues. But you all should keep in mind that people will only put out new music as long as other people are buying new music.
I understand your concern olski, and i am totally sypathetic. I guess one way you can look at it as a positive thing, is that if djs on the radio and in clubs are playing your mp3s, it will give you a leg up promotionally. You don't have to press up more for promos and don't have to wait for the test presses to clear before it gets any rub. i play day's "gone bad" all the time and when people ask what it is, I tell em. I can start getting email addresses, and forward them to you if you like.
I've been wanting to mess with this for a while now, but so far I don't need it as a local yocal who plays a lot of bay stuff and live acapella blends. Day, thanks for reminding me I'm too poor for this technology!
Remixers, I'm curious if you still do a lot of blends live still~ or if it's mainly recording them at home to ensure precision? I'm a little nervous that Serato would make me lazy on that front, plus I hate when an acapella skips at a club gig...
"Selling units at live performances is a joke. What band/producer/label can live from that? Playing live and selling records afterwards? That is not selling any numbers. And how do you attract people to your show when your product is only available at your show?"
I live strictly off that... and believe me, when aretist find themselves on a large indi label, selling a lot of records, but not an insane amount, 9/10 times thier shit is not recouping. They need to get out there and tour, put on a fucking dope show so that they can sell the CDs hand to hand (and the million other things they have on thier table, such as tour-only stock). I say fuck it man, give away the music, open the floodgate, and let the bullshit sink. The reason the state of current music sucks so badly is because people expect to get paid off it... and aren't nessasarily thinking about a responsibility to making it move forward.
Do you really think that whole Electroclash movement would have happened in for a week if the people making that music had no desire to make money off it?
I am in full support of serrato as a live performance tool for someone making thier own shit. You still gotta be able to DJ... a wack dood is still a wack dood. Good selections still go a long way when you are bumping shit at a club. Also, to the people that think its just like , watching some dood check his email.... IT IS STILL CONNECTED TO THE TURNTABLES AND MIXER!
Im lethally hungover and bitchy today. Kid Koala just loaned me his Serato.
I'm curious if anyone has tried Final Scratch 2.0 yet. It's got a lot of features that SSL does not have (firewire, MIDI, aux ins and outs) and is using a much more stable software in Traktor 2.6 (timestretching, autogain, recording your sets, online streaming capabilities).
AI - did I see your boy Senor Melker using it at Plan B a couple of weeks ago?
you say "i have been spending a lot more on raers than i used to. the money allocated to buying new 12"s is now going to feed my inner collectro. " That's my point: labels that are releasing new dj-style music will suffer from digital dj-ing and downloading.
Selling units at live performances is a joke. What band/producer/label can live from that? Playing live and selling records afterwards? That is not selling any numbers. And how do you attract people to your show when your product is only available at your show?
Ask any giging band and they will tell you how hard it is to do play gigs and meet ends.
You can sell Brainfreeze this way but that only worked because there was Entroducing.
I don't want to complain but if you want to selll records today you have to be extra-proactive.
Marketing and promotion will not die. How do people learn about the next hot ish? How do you create an image ? By having free mp3s played to Serato DJs not. You have to create some kind of "hype", get reviews, do stickers, have features and so on...
I understand that the DJs and collectors on this board are not concerned about these issues. But you all should keep in mind that people will only put out new music as long as other people are buying new music.
I understand your concern olski, and i am totally sypathetic. I guess one way you can look at it as a positive thing, is that if djs on the radio and in clubs are playing your mp3s, it will give you a leg up promotionally. You don't have to press up more for promos and don't have to wait for the test presses to clear before it gets any rub. i play day's "gone bad" all the time and when people ask what it is, I tell em. I can start getting email addresses, and forward them to you if you like.
Thanks, Delay! As I said I'm not against it at all. Downloading and the web are great tool for small labels. I do the bulk of my promo by mailing out links to DJs where they can download new tracks (by the way: the version of Day's next 12" that you are playing out is not mastered and misses that extra boom).
I only mail out 20 copies to DJs for promotion. Otherwise I would make no money because DJs are not my promoters they are my customers. Plus it's not so much the pressing costs that makes mailing out promos expensive but the shipping.
email adresses of people intrested in our stuff are always welcome. People can also subscribe to our newsletter at www.mpmsite.com (sorry bout the plug...)
I'm wondering when the RIAA (Whatever group from which ever country) will start showing up at clubs and gigs and handing out fines.
I remember reading a couple of articles a bit back of groups already starting to go after DJ's (And owners) at events playing off CDJ's and mp3's. That would sooo be
Also, before I got Serato I was fucking around with CDs for about 6 - 9 months. It was during that time that I stopped buying as much vinyl, but I knew the buying of CDs was a step in teh direction of Serato. Since I've gotten Serato, in the past 3 weeks I've spent more money on vinyl than I have in the past year. But it's all shit that I really want.
I understand your concern olski, and i am totally sypathetic. I guess one way you can look at it as a positive thing, is that if djs on the radio and in clubs are playing your mp3s, it will give you a leg up promotionally. You don't have to press up more for promos and don't have to wait for the test presses to clear before it gets any rub. i play day's "gone bad" all the time and when people ask what it is, I tell em. I can start getting email addresses, and forward them to you if you like.
Hey Tmo, J from tSL says just coz you switched doesn't mean you can't stop by and say hi. He'll still talk to you.
My 2c: 1) Serato is if you're doing a proper live set. For straight playing of raers, or being able to appeal to a frat crowd - lame. If you'd be embarrassed to have the record in your crate, then delete that fucking mp3!
2) So far it seems the DJ will stop buying as much vinyl and obtain most of the music illegally. Eventually the software manufactureres and record companies will get a handle on this - by merging. Apple will be the manufacturer or supplier of your laptop, your software, and the music you play. Daptone or Vanguard Squad will make less money or get further from breakeven selling more expensive vinyl, or they'll have the option of joining iTunes.
3) There's a lot of defensiveness from the Serato set. Feeling Guilty?
"Selling units at live performances is a joke. What band/producer/label can live from that? Playing live and selling records afterwards? That is not selling any numbers. And how do you attract people to your show when your product is only available at your show?"
I live strictly off that... and believe me, when aretist find themselves on a large indi label, selling a lot of records, but not an insane amount, 9/10 times thier shit is not recouping. They need to get out there and tour, put on a fucking dope show so that they can sell the CDs hand to hand (and the million other things they have on thier table, such as tour-only stock). I say fuck it man, give away the music, open the floodgate, and let the bullshit sink. The reason the state of current music sucks so badly is because people expect to get paid off it... and aren't nessasarily thinking about a responsibility to making it move forward.
Respect for doing so! But large indie labels are paying non-returnable advances, right?
What kind of shows are you doing? Dj-ing or performing?
3) There's a lot of defensiveness from the Serato set. Feeling Guilty?
Hell no. I feel great. I've been DJing for 15 years and using Serato has made this shit fun again to me.
Sasche,
tell jboogie i've been meaning to come say hi, but it's always on a day he's not there.
as far as feeling guilty... fuck that. i've been buying records rabidly for about 15 years too, and i don't have shit to prove to anybody. i done payed my dues.
2) So far it seems the DJ will stop buying as much vinyl and obtain most of the music illegally. Eventually the software manufactureres and record companies will get a handle on this - by merging. Apple will be the manufacturer or supplier of your laptop, your software, and the music you play. Daptone or Vanguard Squad will make less money or get further from breakeven selling more expensive vinyl, or they'll have the option of joining iTunes.
Daptone and Vanguard Squad would loose their independence, become slaves to the apple and nobody would start the next Daptone and Vanguard Squad. Once we loose the opportunity to release and distribute music independently (no matter what format) we are lost. No future raers for our children. Just disposable mainstream music fed to us by multinational corporations.
I see what you're saying Olski but I don't agree. I will continue to buy vinyl. I just don't buy crap anymore because I don't have to. The money I save on not having to purchase the Keysha Cole remix 12s of the world will be spent on a Vanguard Squad 45, a mint copy of "This Is My Country" and a Didier's Sound Spectrum.
I say fuck it man, give away the music, open the floodgate, and let the bullshit sink. The reason the state of current music sucks so badly is because people expect to get paid off it...
Yo, Dude,
I agree with this sentiment 100%, but how's a dude gonna eat?
Also, it's cool that people get to hear Day's tracks via Serato on MP3, but I'm sure he don't wanna be flat broke with a club hit. If that interest doesn't translate itself to sales & people just hit up soulseek for their musical needs, how will artists afford to put out shit or tour? I like new techonologies, but let the people who put in the effort make some cash off of it. I mean, Digital Deejaying is cool, but it leads into this dowloading thing & soon there won't be any good new music to cop.
I see what you're saying Olski but I don't agree. I will continue to buy vinyl. I just don't buy crap anymore because I don't have to. The money I save on not having to purchase the Keysha Cole remix 12s of the world will be spent on a Vanguard Squad 45, a mint copy of "This Is My Country" and a Didier's Sound Spectrum.
Than you are not disagree Cosmo. I am asking questions here first and formost. Good to hear that serato doesn't kill the vinyl bug.
What I am as much concerned about is who is controlling the download-sales and who is really making profit from it. At first it looks cool, like you make a track and people can buy it from via download. But the reality is not like that. I am in the process of getting my stuff on iTunes and other platforms and I#m learning that it is not as easy as pressing up vinyls and sell them the old way. You have less control and more middlemen.
The money I save on not having to purchase the Keysha Cole remix 12s of the world will be spent on a Vanguard Squad 45, a mint copy of "This Is My Country" and a Didier's Sound Spectrum.
But really tho, shouldn't you 'big dude' djs be getting serviced from the major labels so you don't have to buy that stuff? I mean when I was in LA doing college radio for a station that had NO SIGNAL I was getting all of that stuff. Hell, some dude came in the shop yesterday with like 10 copies of Ying Yang Wait remix 12's from the label. He bought them off a DJ, and they were clearly promos with the UPC slashed off.
It aint that hard to get on mailing lists, especially if your gigging regularly. Plus you can rip it and flip it.
Another question for AI - does Melker not like FS because of something specific with the program, or does he just not like the 'feel' of it?
What I am as much concerned about is who is controlling the download-sales and who is really making profit from it. At first it looks cool, like you make a track and people can buy it from via download. But the reality is not like that. I am in the process of getting my stuff on iTunes and other platforms and I#m learning that it is not as easy as pressing up vinyls and sell them the old way. You have less control and more middlemen.
iTunes is no different from any of the old major (asshole) labels. They spend 80% of their budget promoting a few wrinkly rockers and teen strippers, money which is made off the backs of Joe Singer-Songwriter x 99c x 50million (or however many myspace pages are out there). Because Joe Singer-songwriter will promote iTunes for free, and still have to book tours. They're just getting crumbs off the table.
Comments
Olski,
I dont know what to tell you, but it would seem that the market is gonna have to switch to selling units at live performances. You'll still be able to sell #s, but it'll have to be in a more proactive way. marketing and promotion are gonna die, and the live performance will have to come back... in a way, this might be good.
I'm sure this is how lots of dudes are paying bills now. The indy rap dudes tour like mad - I always thought this is how they make a living. I'm sure they sell units, but I'll be more willing to bet for every 1 copy of a Murs album sold, 5 are downloaded.
you should have yelled at them and told them they didn't know that REAL SCHITT!
i dont 100% know how i feel about this issue either. namely since it still seems to be sorting itself out.
from my observations it seems alot of more mainstream and house oriented DJ's started switching to cdj's over the last few years already. Services like Stompy have been doing quite well by providing downloadable aifs for digital dj's. I even know of DJ's who YES pay to download new releases from services like these.
from my perspective as a label owner i think digital downloads are a good thing. Namely because my press runs are only 1000 and thus sell out pretty fast. with digital downloads you can still generate profit from your back catalogue after the 12"s are long gone.
companies like Juno in the UK are setting up new digital services and they look much nicer than itunes. both in terms of rates and in terms of options for the downloads.. namely you can do hi res aifs and such and sell 12"s on the same page.
i think there's such a ceiling on the vinyl buying market that the only way to rise above that is to get into digital... and downloading seems infinitly preferable to me than making cds.
you say "i have been spending a lot more on raers than i used to. the money allocated to buying new 12"s is now going to feed my inner collectro. " That's my point: labels that are releasing new dj-style music will suffer from digital dj-ing and downloading.
Selling units at live performances is a joke. What band/producer/label can live from that? Playing live and selling records afterwards? That is not selling any numbers. And how do you attract people to your show when your product is only available at your show?
Ask any giging band and they will tell you how hard it is to do play gigs and meet ends.
You can sell Brainfreeze this way but that only worked because there was Entroducing.
I don't want to complain but if you want to selll records today you have to be extra-proactive.
Marketing and promotion will not die. How do people learn about the next hot ish? How do you create an image ? By having free mp3s played to Serato DJs not. You have to create some kind of "hype", get reviews, do stickers, have features and so on...
I understand that the DJs and collectors on this board are not concerned about these issues. But you all should keep in mind that people will only put out new music as long as other people are buying new music.
And he would have been right, too.
If anything, Serato is gonna phase out CDs... not vinyl. In fact, I reckon Serato is going to make the vinyl market a lot healthier. It might make some vinyl stores suffer a bit (sorry Armands), but that's just part of the game.
-e
tell that to theo parrish
sellin 12"s for 15 euros at the gigs
I understand your concern olski, and i am totally sypathetic. I guess one way you can look at it as a positive thing, is that if djs on the radio and in clubs are playing your mp3s, it will give you a leg up promotionally. You don't have to press up more for promos and don't have to wait for the test presses to clear before it gets any rub. i play day's "gone bad" all the time and when people ask what it is, I tell em. I can start getting email addresses, and forward them to you if you like.
Remixers, I'm curious if you still do a lot of blends live still~ or if it's mainly recording them at home to ensure precision? I'm a little nervous that Serato would make me lazy on that front, plus I hate when an acapella skips at a club gig...
I live strictly off that... and believe me, when aretist find themselves on a large indi label, selling a lot of records, but not an insane amount, 9/10 times thier shit is not recouping. They need to get out there and tour, put on a fucking dope show so that they can sell the CDs hand to hand (and the million other things they have on thier table, such as tour-only stock). I say fuck it man, give away the music, open the floodgate, and let the bullshit sink. The reason the state of current music sucks so badly is because people expect to get paid off it... and aren't nessasarily thinking about a responsibility to making it move forward.
Do you really think that whole Electroclash movement would have happened in for a week if the people making that music had no desire to make money off it?
I am in full support of serrato as a live performance tool for someone making thier own shit. You still gotta be able to DJ... a wack dood is still a wack dood. Good selections still go a long way when you are bumping shit at a club. Also, to the people that think its just like , watching some dood check his email.... IT IS STILL CONNECTED TO THE TURNTABLES AND MIXER!
Im lethally hungover and bitchy today. Kid Koala just loaned me his Serato.
AI - did I see your boy Senor Melker using it at Plan B a couple of weeks ago?
Thanks, Delay!
As I said I'm not against it at all. Downloading and the web are great tool for small labels. I do the bulk of my promo by mailing out links to DJs where they can download new tracks (by the way: the version of Day's next 12" that you are playing out is not mastered and misses that extra boom).
I only mail out 20 copies to DJs for promotion. Otherwise I would make no money because DJs are not my promoters they are my customers. Plus it's not so much the pressing costs that makes mailing out promos expensive but the shipping.
email adresses of people intrested in our stuff are always welcome. People can also subscribe to our newsletter at www.mpmsite.com (sorry bout the plug...)
anyways I got serato about a month ago and ayres's "tony yayo paradigm" is on point.
if you stop buying records because you got serato, you didn't really like records in the first place.
I use Scratch Live 1.4 and it's fucking dope.
I remember reading a couple of articles a bit back of groups already starting to go after DJ's (And owners) at events playing off CDJ's and mp3's. That would sooo be
Hey Tmo, J from tSL says just coz you switched doesn't mean you can't stop by and say hi. He'll still talk to you.
My 2c:
1) Serato is
2) So far it seems the DJ will stop buying as much vinyl and obtain most of the music illegally. Eventually the software manufactureres and record companies will get a handle on this - by merging. Apple will be the manufacturer or supplier of your laptop, your software, and the music you play. Daptone or Vanguard Squad will make less money or get further from breakeven selling more expensive vinyl, or they'll have the option of joining iTunes.
3) There's a lot of defensiveness from the Serato set. Feeling Guilty?
Hell no. I feel great. I've been DJing for 15 years and using DILDO has made this shit fun again to me.
Respect for doing so! But large indie labels are paying non-returnable advances, right?
What kind of shows are you doing? Dj-ing or performing?
Sasche,
tell jboogie i've been meaning to come say hi, but it's always on a day he's not there.
as far as feeling guilty... fuck that. i've been buying records rabidly for about 15 years too, and i don't have shit to prove to anybody. i done payed my dues.
Daptone and Vanguard Squad would loose their independence, become slaves to the apple and nobody would start the next Daptone and Vanguard Squad. Once we loose the opportunity to release and distribute music independently (no matter what format) we are lost. No future raers for our children. Just disposable mainstream music fed to us by multinational corporations.
Yo, Dude,
I agree with this sentiment 100%, but how's a dude gonna eat?
Also, it's cool that people get to hear Day's tracks via Serato on MP3, but I'm sure he don't wanna be flat broke with a club hit. If that interest doesn't translate itself to sales & people just hit up soulseek for their musical needs, how will artists afford to put out shit or tour? I like new techonologies, but let the people who put in the effort make some cash off of it. I mean, Digital Deejaying is cool, but it leads into this dowloading thing & soon there won't be any good new music to cop.
h
Than you are not disagree Cosmo. I am asking questions here first and formost. Good to hear that serato doesn't kill the vinyl bug.
What I am as much concerned about is who is controlling the download-sales and who is really making profit from it. At first it looks cool, like you make a track and people can buy it from via download. But the reality is not like that. I am in the process of getting my stuff on iTunes and other platforms and I#m learning that it is not as easy as pressing up vinyls and sell them the old way. You have less control and more middlemen.
But really tho, shouldn't you 'big dude' djs be getting serviced from the major labels so you don't have to buy that stuff? I mean when I was in LA doing college radio for a station that had NO SIGNAL I was getting all of that stuff. Hell, some dude came in the shop yesterday with like 10 copies of Ying Yang Wait remix 12's from the label. He bought them off a DJ, and they were clearly promos with the UPC slashed off.
It aint that hard to get on mailing lists, especially if your gigging regularly. Plus you can rip it and flip it.
Another question for AI - does Melker not like FS because of something specific with the program, or does he just not like the 'feel' of it?
iTunes is no different from any of the old major (asshole) labels. They spend 80% of their budget promoting a few wrinkly rockers and teen strippers, money which is made off the backs of Joe Singer-Songwriter x 99c x 50million (or however many myspace pages are out there). Because Joe Singer-songwriter will promote iTunes for free, and still have to book tours. They're just getting crumbs off the table.