It sucks though that theres all these hybrid tax breaks, and the people getting them are rich anyways putting down alot of money for one of these new lexus hybrid suv's or something.
People are missing the point. It needs to be MORE efficient. and even then, its a TEMPORARY solution to a long term energy crisis that we will be forced to deal with very very soon.
I mean, even if everyone had a cheap hybrid car, theres still the issue of trucking around goods and shit. THis is a big country. We dont have any clue how to dig ourselves out of this pit right now.
I wish i could believe in alot of these alternative methods. I mean, i see that some of them work, but it all feels like too little too late when you look at the immensity of the problem.
I personally believe we have already hit it a few years ago. Iraq has been less than truthful with their reporting. Oil is huge, but not the major thing. The problem is the fact that we are now 40 trillion dollars in debt. Or $136,479 per man, woman and child. Some day very soon our credit will run out. 66% ($27 trillion) of today's debt was created since 1990. We haven't been able to pay only the intrest on that for many years. The goverment will print more money to help us out of this disaster which will bring down the value of our dollar to virtually nothing. revolutions will ensue.
Nate, I'm sure that stuff is fun, but building structures in the water for people to get pulled over by boats strikes me as a problematic way of interacting with the environment. When your recreation has that kind of ecological footprint, it's time to reconsider. Admittedly, I'm a diehard canoer and am strongly biased against most any recreation that's loud and polluting and smelly.
It sucks though that theres all these hybrid tax breaks, and the people getting them are rich anyways putting down alot of money for one of these new lexus hybrid suv's or something.
People are missing the point. It needs to be MORE efficient. and even then, its a TEMPORARY solution to a long term energy crisis that we will be forced to deal with very very soon.
I mean, even if everyone had a cheap hybrid car, theres still the issue of trucking around goods and shit. THis is a big country. We dont have any clue how to dig ourselves out of this pit right now.
I wish i could believe in alot of these alternative methods. I mean, i see that some of them work, but it all feels like too little too late when you look at the immensity of the problem.
after peak oil hits, we are fucked.
True but it seems like the only viable alternative is fusion based cars. Apparently the technology needs a lot of work but more importantly the source of energy is in question. They found that certain termites actually produce small amounts of fusion power and they're looking into harboring this power as a source of energy.
You're right though. The mileage some of these hybrid cars claim just isn't impressive for what you'd think hybrid would produce. 50 miles per gallon is good but I've seen regular 4 banger cars that get the same mileage. Albeit they're not as stylish or large but they get you from A to B. Like the 1989 HONDA CIVIC CRX which gets almost 60 MPG on the freeway.
Nate -- do you do anything to mitigate the extra and unnecessary polution you create, and do you go beyond holding an anti-war stance?
I think the answer to your question is probably yes, an excessive pursuit of leisure at the expensive of the rest of the world is part of a violent lifestyle, whatever your stated position on war. It's very American though and you won't find too many people getting upset about it -- myself included -- cause, you know, much worse shit than driving an SUV and boat is going on these days.
Nate, I'm sure that stuff is fun, but building structures in the water for people to get pulled over by boats strikes me as a problematic way of interacting with the environment. When your recreation has that kind of ecological footprint, it's time to reconsider. Admittedly, I'm a diehard canoer and am strongly biased against most any recreation that's loud and polluting and smelly.
Nate, I'm sure that stuff is fun, but building structures in the water for people to get pulled over by boats strikes me as a problematic way of interacting with the environment. When your recreation has that kind of ecological footprint, it's time to reconsider. Admittedly, I'm a diehard canoer and am strongly biased against most any recreation that's loud and polluting and smelly.
Been out on the St John yet, dan?
K.
now i see why it takes you a month to ship your records
Bruce Beach. Ask Raj, Dreas, Sonic Reducer, Castillo et al - they've been there. I will die there.
It's my family cottage that's been around since my Great Grandfather traded a cow (no joke!) for it a long time ago. It's not really thought of as cottage country (in the same way as Muskoka), but i'd take it over there anyday. Lake Huron is easy to fall in love with.
Nate, I'm sure that stuff is fun, but building structures in the water for people to get pulled over by boats strikes me as a problematic way of interacting with the environment. When your recreation has that kind of ecological footprint, it's time to reconsider. Admittedly, I'm a diehard canoer and am strongly biased against most any recreation that's loud and polluting and smelly.
Been out on the St John yet, dan?
K.
now i see why it takes you a month to ship your records
dave
I don't live there anymore, Dave. That's about a 5 mintue drive from where Danno is going to Law School (and where I lived for a while). It's a 15 hour drive from Toronto to Fredericton and is quite boring until you hit the road that snakes along this powerful river.
K.
P.S. IF I drove 15 hours west, I wouldn't even be out of my province/state! Driving to Florida is closer that Manitoba.
People are missing the point. It needs to be MORE efficient. and even then, its a TEMPORARY solution to a long term energy crisis that we will be forced to deal with very very soon.
after peak oil hits, we are fucked.
The other half of the picture is that the US economy is also jet-engine driven. I don't think there are any plans for a hybrid 747 yet. Nobody really talks about this because climatologists also like to go to conferences in nice parts of the world. Life would change considerably.
How many car ads are there on TV right now? Give up already!
wait till gas is 15 dollars a gallon and the economy is is total collapse. Then tell me about your hummer.
honestly, when do you think that will be?
Sooner than you think.
Really? Why do you think this?
And not just some loosely based conspiracy theory stuff. Like really. How and why>
I don't think the economy is going to collapse or that we're going into a Depression, but I think the continuing rise in oil and gas prices will bring on a recession sooner than later. It has in the past so I don't know why this would be any exception.
yup. i think danno summed it up well. basically your basking in your privileges, and a hell of a lot of people would be doing the exact same thing. very few choose to use their privileged positions to make a difference in the world...although some find that route the most satisfying.
and i'm not getting down on you nate. just giving you an honest answer.
regarding hybrids and cars that get better gas milage: the idea maybe should be to make cars less of a convenience and more of a hassle.
stop designing sprawled out, low density (of people) where cars are indispensible for movement. if you think about it, thats denying freedom of movement to elderly (too old to drive), young (not old enough) and poor (who cant afford cars). its practically a justice issue. more and more people will be left isolated in this type of transportation system. key is high density (think tokyo/manhattan/etc) areas, with excellent affordable, subsidized public transportation. highly walkable streets with vubrant street culture. there is a stigma around publictrans in USA that doesnt exist in other parts of the world. we also dont have as many gorgeous mixed use bustling neighborhoods. we got suckered into the "drive 8 miles to the wal mart and get everything" planning model. lets all move to the city, stop developing farm land, ride bikes/walk off our beer guts, and preach on street corners.
regarding hybrids and cars that get better gas milage: the idea maybe should be to make cars less of a convenience and more of a hassle.
stop designing sprawled out, low density (of people) where cars are indispensible for movement. if you think about it, thats denying freedom of movement to elderly (too old to drive), young (not old enough) and poor (who cant afford cars). its practically a justice issue. more and more people will be left isolated in this type of transportation system. key is high density (think tokyo/manhattan/etc) areas, with excellent affordable, subsidized public transportation. highly walkable streets with vubrant street culture. there is a stigma around publictrans in USA that doesnt exist in other parts of the world. we also dont have as many gorgeous mixed use bustling neighborhoods. we got suckered into the "drive 8 miles to the wal mart and get everything" planning model. lets all move to the city, stop developing farm land, ride bikes/walk off our beer guts, and preach on street corners.
FUCK THE BULLSHIT!!!!!!
rantover
Yeah, but Americans generally aren't good at living cheek-by-jowl, ie, in apartments, taking buses, sharing public space. You'd definitely have to get rid of all the guns first. Manhattan is far from perfect 97% of goods are trucked in (more than Chicago and L.A.) and the buses are empty except during rush hour. There are plenty of NYers who "don't do the subway". Mixed development is a nice idea but usually translates into unviable commercial development mixed with yuppie condos. As soon as a recession hits, these areas become deserted. You can develop up the ass but nature will take its course and eventually it will turn into what it wants to be - convenient parking for a stripmall.
The whole country is just not viable in the long term. Entire central states would have to be de-populated and human society would be mainly along the coasts, sort of like Australia or Canada. However, this move would fit well with the idea to introduce endagered African wildlife to the Great Plains, coz I wouldn't really want to live near a lion's house.
Yeah, but Americans generally aren't good at living cheek-by-jowl, ie, in apartments, taking buses, sharing public space. You'd definitely have to get rid of all the guns first. Manhattan is far from perfect 97% of goods are trucked in (more than Chicago and L.A.) and the buses are empty except during rush hour. There are plenty of NYers who "don't do the subway".
i didnt offer nyc as a perfect model. naturally you have to import food into a city. however, a sustainable city could and should import a majority of its food from peripheral farmland. unfortunately, most cities' peripheral land is getting eaten up by developers of low density housing (suburbs) that is generally not oriented around light rail public transit lines....completely dependent on cars. If buses are "empty except during rush hour" the city needs to make public transit more attractive an option for its residents and make car use less atractive. whether you like riding the bus or not, nyc is a walking city and a huge metropolis where it is not necesary to own a car. lower income/youth/elderly can still benefit from a highly functional and somewhat inexpensive transit system.
i'm not sure what you mean by americans generally not being able to share public space. if some ill oil crash happens, people are either going to have to consolidate resources and live in cities/towns that have a viable agricultural infrastructure surrounding them or live on a farm and fend for themselves.
Mixed development is a nice idea but usually translates into unviable commercial development mixed with yuppie condos. As soon as a recession hits, these areas become deserted. You can develop up the ass but nature will take its course and eventually it will turn into what it wants to be - convenient parking for a stripmall.
I mentioned mixed use, not mixed development....i'm not much of an advocate for development outside of pre-existing developed areas anyway. I feel urban communities need to start planning for oil-independent survival. that doesn't mean one house that has solar panels and a garden....but maybe 20 different gardens in a neighborhood (whether on roofs, lots, private or community gardens) and modest sized, sustainable energy oriented apartments and homes. you can argue that americans don't want to live like that...but its (1)chicken before the egg and also (2)a matter of convenience. if gas prices go through the roof and it costs you a grand a month to heat your home...you dont think heads will start considering sustainable heating methods? and back to (1) if people are constantly encouraged to buy certain things that arent community friendly (SUVs for example) and then you say, "people are going to be buying them anyway, might as well keep advertising"...one reinforces the other. if people are encouraged and given incentives to try and do new things, there is a better chance that they will.
The whole country is just not viable in the long term. Entire central states would have to be de-populated and human society would be mainly along the coasts, sort of like Australia or Canada. However, this move would fit well with the idea to introduce endagered African wildlife to the Great Plains, coz I wouldn't really want to live near a lion's house.
I say go for it.
go for what? whole country not viable in the long term? how so? maybe if we stay on the fossil fuel titanic blindly till the bitter fucking end. this country is still amazingly rich in natural resources. you don't envision people living along the mississippi river? great lakes? true, cities in the southwest are going to be miserable when their acquifers completely dry up...but cities usually spring up around transportation hubs: coasts, ports, rivers, lakes, railroads, etc
i dont know what the fuck youre talking with lions and african wildlife and shit (sorry, i didnt check the link) but theres plenty of people who are planning out how to live independently of government/oil exploration.
like doc doom said in some comic strip i cut out: every moment is vital every second counts
Comments
People are missing the point. It needs to be MORE efficient. and even then, its a TEMPORARY solution to a long term energy crisis that we will be forced to deal with very very soon.
I mean, even if everyone had a cheap hybrid car, theres still the issue of trucking around goods and shit. THis is a big country. We dont have any clue how to dig ourselves out of this pit right now.
I wish i could believe in alot of these alternative methods. I mean, i see that some of them work, but it all feels like too little too late when you look at the immensity of the problem.
after peak oil hits, we are fucked.
I personally believe we have already hit it a few years ago. Iraq has been less than truthful with their reporting. Oil is huge, but not the major thing. The problem is the fact that we are now 40 trillion dollars in debt. Or $136,479 per man, woman and child. Some day very soon our credit will run out. 66% ($27 trillion) of today's debt was created since 1990. We haven't been able to pay only the intrest on that for many years. The goverment will print more money to help us out of this disaster which will bring down the value of our dollar to virtually nothing. revolutions will ensue.
Nate, I'm sure that stuff is fun, but building structures in the water for people to get pulled over by boats strikes me as a problematic way of interacting with the environment. When your recreation has that kind of ecological footprint, it's time to reconsider. Admittedly, I'm a diehard canoer and am strongly biased against most any recreation that's loud and polluting and smelly.
True but it seems like the only viable alternative is fusion based cars. Apparently the technology needs a lot of work but more importantly the source of energy is in question. They found that certain termites actually produce small amounts of fusion power and they're looking into harboring this power as a source of energy.
You're right though. The mileage some of these hybrid cars claim just isn't impressive for what you'd think hybrid would produce. 50 miles per gallon is good but I've seen regular 4 banger cars that get the same mileage. Albeit they're not as stylish or large but they get you from A to B. Like the 1989 HONDA CIVIC CRX which gets almost 60 MPG on the freeway.
Here's an interesting thread I found about good MPG vehicles.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef98a7d/0
I think the answer to your question is probably yes, an excessive pursuit of leisure at the expensive of the rest of the world is part of a violent lifestyle, whatever your stated position on war. It's very American though and you won't find too many people getting upset about it -- myself included -- cause, you know, much worse shit than driving an SUV and boat is going on these days.
Arrive by hangglider only[/b]
K.
P.S. Am I bum for still being up here?
non petroleum burning boaters stand up!
Been out on the St John yet, dan?
K.
Where is this Kev?
now i see why it takes you a month to ship your records
dave
Bruce Beach. Ask Raj, Dreas, Sonic Reducer, Castillo et al - they've been there. I will die there.
It's my family cottage that's been around since my Great Grandfather traded a cow (no joke!) for it a long time ago. It's not really thought of as cottage country (in the same way as Muskoka), but i'd take it over there anyday. Lake Huron is easy to fall in love with.
K.
I don't live there anymore, Dave. That's about a 5 mintue drive from where Danno is going to Law School (and where I lived for a while). It's a 15 hour drive from Toronto to Fredericton and is quite boring until you hit the road that snakes along this powerful river.
K.
P.S. IF I drove 15 hours west, I wouldn't even be out of my province/state! Driving to Florida is closer that Manitoba.
The other half of the picture is that the US economy is also jet-engine driven. I don't think there are any plans for a hybrid 747 yet. Nobody really talks about this because climatologists also like to go to conferences in nice parts of the world. Life would change considerably.
How many car ads are there on TV right now? Give up already!
9,984,670 square km. that's a mighty big country.
I don't think the economy is going to collapse or that we're going into a Depression, but I think the continuing rise in oil and gas prices will bring on a recession sooner than later. It has in the past so I don't know why this would be any exception.
basically your basking in your privileges, and a hell of a lot of people would be doing the exact same thing. very few choose to use their privileged positions to make a difference in the world...although some find that route the most satisfying.
and i'm not getting down on you nate. just giving you an honest answer.
the idea maybe should be to make cars less of a convenience and more of a hassle.
stop designing sprawled out, low density (of people) where cars are indispensible for movement. if you think about it, thats denying freedom of movement to elderly (too old to drive), young (not old enough) and poor (who cant afford cars). its practically a justice issue. more and more people will be left isolated in this type of transportation system.
key is high density (think tokyo/manhattan/etc) areas, with excellent affordable, subsidized public transportation. highly walkable streets with vubrant street culture.
there is a stigma around publictrans in USA that doesnt exist in other parts of the world. we also dont have as many gorgeous mixed use bustling neighborhoods. we got suckered into the "drive 8 miles to the wal mart and get everything" planning model.
lets all move to the city, stop developing farm land, ride bikes/walk off our beer guts, and preach on street corners.
FUCK THE BULLSHIT!!!!!!
rantover
Remind me not to invite you to my next colonics party.
colonics party? turn on your BM[/b]s, Haz.
Yeah, but Americans generally aren't good at living cheek-by-jowl, ie, in apartments, taking buses, sharing public space. You'd definitely have to get rid of all the guns first. Manhattan is far from perfect 97% of goods are trucked in (more than Chicago and L.A.) and the buses are empty except during rush hour. There are plenty of NYers who "don't do the subway".
Mixed development is a nice idea but usually translates into unviable commercial development mixed with yuppie condos. As soon as a recession hits, these areas become deserted. You can develop up the ass but nature will take its course and eventually it will turn into what it wants to be - convenient parking for a stripmall.
The whole country is just not viable in the long term. Entire central states would have to be de-populated and human society would be mainly along the coasts, sort of like Australia or Canada. However, this move would fit well with the idea to introduce endagered African wildlife to the Great Plains, coz I wouldn't really want to live near a lion's house.
I say go for it.
i didnt offer nyc as a perfect model. naturally you have to import food into a city. however, a sustainable city could and should import a majority of its food from peripheral farmland. unfortunately, most cities' peripheral land is getting eaten up by developers of low density housing (suburbs) that is generally not oriented around light rail public transit lines....completely dependent on cars.
If buses are "empty except during rush hour" the city needs to make public transit more attractive an option for its residents and make car use less atractive. whether you like riding the bus or not, nyc is a walking city and a huge metropolis where it is not necesary to own a car. lower income/youth/elderly can still benefit from a highly functional and somewhat inexpensive transit system.
i'm not sure what you mean by americans generally not being able to share public space. if some ill oil crash happens, people are either going to have to consolidate resources and live in cities/towns that have a viable agricultural infrastructure surrounding them or live on a farm and fend for themselves.
I mentioned mixed use, not mixed development....i'm not much of an advocate for development outside of pre-existing developed areas anyway. I feel urban communities need to start planning for oil-independent survival. that doesn't mean one house that has solar panels and a garden....but maybe 20 different gardens in a neighborhood (whether on roofs, lots, private or community gardens) and modest sized, sustainable energy oriented apartments and homes.
you can argue that americans don't want to live like that...but its (1)chicken before the egg and also (2)a matter of convenience. if gas prices go through the roof and it costs you a grand a month to heat your home...you dont think heads will start considering sustainable heating methods? and back to (1) if people are constantly encouraged to buy certain things that arent community friendly (SUVs for example) and then you say, "people are going to be buying them anyway, might as well keep advertising"...one reinforces the other. if people are encouraged and given incentives to try and do new things, there is a better chance that they will.
go for what?
whole country not viable in the long term? how so? maybe if we stay on the fossil fuel titanic blindly till the bitter fucking end. this country is still amazingly rich in natural resources. you don't envision people living along the mississippi river? great lakes? true, cities in the southwest are going to be miserable when their acquifers completely dry up...but cities usually spring up around transportation hubs: coasts, ports, rivers, lakes, railroads, etc
i dont know what the fuck youre talking with lions and african wildlife and shit (sorry, i didnt check the link) but theres plenty of people who are planning out how to live independently of government/oil exploration.
like doc doom said in some comic strip i cut out:
every moment is vital
every second counts
yall know im really all abou that bling and the