Can you really sell studio multitracks legally if they are just called WAV samples?

djtopcatdjtopcat Seattle WA The 206 312 Posts
edited August 2015 in Strut Central
I tried reporting this company months ago, yet Ebay does nothing. I finally emailed them outside of Ebay and some d-bag with very poor English emailed me back saying, it's not against the law if the files are considered samples used in his studio production??wtf
There's no way in hell this is legal. I suspect they're just the same upcoded video game rips from Rockband/Guitar Hero.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-POLICE-STING-Original-Studio-MULTITRACKS-STEMS-WAV-FIles-DOWNLOAD-8-songs-/261990201627?hash=item3cffd5391b

  Comments


  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts
    "All necessary proofs can be shown if required."

  • djtopcatdjtopcat Seattle WA The 206 312 Posts
    G-Writah said:
    "All necessary proofs can be shown if required."

    lol I asked for his "proofs" I wish I could remember what the exact response was, but it was not very convincing.
    I know I'm a hypocrite, I own a shitload of rare multitracks and PT sessions myself, but I respect the artists enough not to sell them for profit. That's where I draw the line, and it pisses me off a reputable company Ebay doesn't seem to care. smh

  • uttersutters 321 Posts
    Of course you can't

    The master recordings belong to a record label of course

    Unless there's a weird loophole that they only own the stereo mixdowns? And not the multitracks?

    Doubt it!

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    utters said:
    The master recordings belong to a record label of course

    Not necessarily.

    The tapes belong to whoever paid for the tape itself, period. If the producer or artist purchased the tape, it belongs to them. If nobody ended up paying for it (and this happens), it usually belongs to the studio itself. When my friend purchased a studio years ago, the sale included hundreds of multitrack masters, and these were indeed his to do whatever he wanted with, including selling or erasing them (but he couldn't release the music on them). Original Multitrack masters appear on eBay quite frequently and the sales are seldom blocked.

    This person is definitely doing some legal tap dancing, but this may actually be legit. The label/artist/producer would have all rights to the 'masters', but would be the final mixed result that was released, not these. I suppose the argument could be made that if you have the right to sell the multitrack tape, you could also sell these files, I have no idea if that would hold up, though. I think it would depend on whether this sale is considered 'releasing' them or not. This might be why there are so many 'isolated track' clips on Youtube, which do not seem to get pulled down.

  • there's the physical tape, there's the master recording, and there's the individual contents of the tape. the physical tape belongs to whoever it belongs to, the master belongs to the label (usually), the individual contents belong to their writers/publishers I would think.

    you can sell the actual tape, but you couldn't sample/use/remix/release the contents without dealing with at least some of the rights holders. afaik

  • djtopcatdjtopcat Seattle WA The 206 312 Posts
    JonnyPaycheck said:
    there's the physical tape, there's the master recording, and there's the individual contents of the tape. the physical tape belongs to whoever it belongs to, the master belongs to the label (usually), the individual contents belong to their writers/publishers I would think.

    you can sell the actual tape, but you couldn't sample/use/remix/release the contents without dealing with at least some of the rights holders. afaik

    Okay it's starting to make a little sense now. btw I just found out these are just up-coded copies of the common video game stems that Harmonix licensed to use for Rock Band and the discontinued Guitar Hero.

    I used to chat with a remixer friend that worked at Harmonix when they were first sorting through masters to make the watered down stems used in the games. He told me they were shocked to see how quickly hackers were able to break the encryption and extract the music. So even though these "WAVs" this guy is selling are most definitely not high quality dupes of the master tapes, they still technically came from the digitally converted masters that Harmonix paid for.
    Therefore selling even cracked video game rips is still illegal, just obviously not enforced much.

    Me personally, I've always been skittish about even remixing some of the rarer multis I own, and I'm sure there's plenty of producers out there who are just sitting on them waiting for the game to change someday. I see people like Mell Star,Kon,even Jorun unofficially remixing some of this exclusive stuff, but as far as I know they don't try to blatantly profit from it, it's more in appreciation of the music, so I really see no harm. I do believe the copyright holder should have final say on how they are used, but there are surely ways to compromise which could be mutually beneficial. Whether the big three labels Sony/EMI/Universal will ever agree is the big question. I think the industry should start looking at more ways to work with talented remixers and producers instead of shunning them. I'm all for some kind of practical revenue sharing system. That way everyone benefits. After this latest Soundcloud defeat it doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon though. Oh well....

  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts
    Why do you care though? I'm pretty sure record companies / The Police, or whoever owns the royalties have lawyers to deal with this shit.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    djtopcat said:
    it pisses me off a reputable company Ebay doesn't seem to care. smh

    Having dealt with eBay a number of times on these issues as both seller and copyright claimant, it's my experience is that they [em]do[/em] care, a lot (if only to protect their interests), and pull shit at the slightest sign of shadyness. I really doubt they would flaunt major artists/labels to reap the chump change this seller gives them for the sale of these files.

    If there was any legitimate claim The Police or Universal or whoever could apply to this, I'm sure they would have done so already.

  • djtopcatdjtopcat Seattle WA The 206 312 Posts
    Okem said:
    Why do you care though? I'm pretty sure record companies / The Police, or whoever owns the royalties have lawyers to deal with this shit.

    Meh, I was just browsing for drum sample packs on Ebay one day and ran into that stuff, and it kind of shocked me. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. The whole music recording business is shady to begin with.

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