What!? No Ferguson Talk on Here!!?

RAJRAJ tenacious local 7,780 Posts
edited August 2014 in Strut Central
This place has hit a NEW low.
«134567

  Comments


  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,901 Posts
    I'm not surprised. I'm guessing between "Smiling Young White People Make App for Avoiding Black Neighborhoods" and "israel vs the sewer/refuge camp" threads, people might be tired of arguing with the same people.

    Ferguson is some bullshit though. I'm hoping there are proper investigations now. Not that it will bring those folks child back. Sad and some shameful shit. I'm hoping at the vary least this starts a real discussion on the militarization of the police. But I'd like to see some people put in jail.


    On a side note tho. You might be a little hard on the site as of late. While I don't think things are as dire as you may believe (It's summer and things always tend to slow down here in the summer). I hope things aren't pushing you in the direction of shutting down the site.

  • Considering all the people I had to put on ignore lately... it would be a very short thread for me.

  • coffinjoecoffinjoe 1,743 Posts
    i lived in ferguson for 4 years (78-82)
    graduated from high school, went to community college and worked at a hospital there
    had my first 2 apartments there
    north st louis is one of the most messed up places ever
    i moved there from south carolina, thinking the mid west
    would be more forward in race relations
    boy, was i wrong
    more stars and bars in north county than in the palmetto state
    institutional racism was and is the norm
    what they did to the kinloch community reverberates to todays situation

    i think my st louis experience would have been greatly different if i had lived anywhere else
    than ferguson

  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    Hey,

    I had an interesting 'conversation' with a waitress at my local diner. To give it context, I'm a 44-year old, 6'2" 250+ pound Black guy (for those who don't know me) and she is a White woman around my age. She was basically upset about all the negative coverage about the police's actions, seeming to imply that Michael Brown was in the wrong and deserved to be killed. My response was that she would never understand, to which she replied "I don't want to." My reply was, "You'll never have to." Given (a) the reported facts of the case (e.g., the victim was holding his hands up in surrender when he was shot and he was not armed), (b) the police department's response to the incident, and (c) my personal experiences, it's not difficult to think that Michael Brown was killed wrongfully.

    So, I start from the above cross-racial (and gender) conversation, which typifies the general disconnect (with exceptions, of course) between Black and White cultures in the U.S. My premise on this follows from social psychological research on stereotyping. Generally speaking, stereotypes against Blacks (especially males) are negative (e.g., lazy, violent, criminal, unintelligent), with more positive stereotypic subtyping occurring for Black athletes (to an extent) and Black professionals. From this frame of reference, the not-so-obvious point to Whites in general is that upon sight (particularly to police), a given Black male will be viewed with malcontent. Couple this with occasional rude and uncivil behavior from police toward Black males (owing to the negative stereotypes about them), it breeds negative social interactions that can easily escalate into violence (e.g., the 'suspect' forcefully asserting his innocence of wrongdoing, getting upset about being racially profiled, etc.). Typically, the behaviors associated with aversion to Blacks are emitted unconsciously, so the perpetrators don't realize they're behaving negatively toward members of the group (for more on this topic see Dovidio, Gaertner, Kawakami, & Hodson, 2002; Dovidio et al., 1997; and Dovidio, Kawakami, & Gaertner, 2002) . This might explain why in cases like Brown's, police fire shots almost reflexively without any thought at all.

    Dovidio, J. F., Gaertner, S. L., Kawakami, K., & Hodson, G. (2002). Why canÔÇÖt we just get along? Interpersonal biases and interracial distrust. Cultural Diversity and Ethnic Minority Psychology, 8, 88-102.

    Dovidio, J. F., Kawakami, K., & Gaertner, S. L. (2002). Implicit and explicit prejudice and interracial interaction. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 82, 62-68.

    Dovidio, J. F., Kawakami, K., Johnson, C., Johnson, B., & Howard, A. (1997). The nature of prejudice: Automatic and controlled processes. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 33, 510-540.

    To give more context about me, I have a doctorate degree in Industrial-Organizational Psychology and I am a Full Professor at a top university in the U.S. Yet a month ago, when my wife and I were in Hawaii (Maui and Kauai) for two weeks, and staying at 5-star hotels, White folks were physically avoiding and grimacing at us like we were the scourge of the earth! I'm walking around in linen slacks or shorts, knit (or silk) shirts, and sandals, yet I had White folks leaning away from me in the elevator like I'm a leper. I would assume that the wherewithal to book such accommodations means you don't have to attack and steal from people! This typifies how subconscious the aversion to Blacks can be, since simple logic contradicts the very fear responses those particular White guests displayed toward us. In the past, I was questioned by cops in my own (gated) community when living in Milwaukee, WI despite wearing a suit and tie having come from teaching an evening master's class at the university. I made the mistake of asking why 10 police cars were at the complex, and he informed me I was Black and articulate like a bank robbery suspect in the area. He went on to demand (authoritatively) to see my ID, and this was AFTER I showed him my business card! My wife was stopped by cops at gunpoint in front of the business school where I worked in Milwaukee while on her way to work (wearing Scooby-Doo lab scrubs because she's lab tech). Apparently, the police thought her car was used in a robbery. I say all this to say that even when we fully pursue (by working our asses off) and realize (for the most part) the American Dream, Black folks still get treated like niggers! This pretty much sums up the seemingly, relative hopelessness of widespread and congenial race relations in America. It's really sad.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Stacks: Thank you.
    Coffin Joe: Thank you.
    Raj: Dolo did bring it up in another thread.

    I'm sure, besides Dolo, everyone here is on the same page on this one.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,901 Posts
    Big_Stacks said:
    Hey,

    I had an interesting 'conversation' with a waitress at my local diner. To give it context, I'm a 44-year old, 6'2" 250+ pound Black guy (for those who don't know me) and she is a White woman around my age. She was basically upset about all the negative coverage about the police's actions, seeming to imply that Michael Brown was in the wrong and deserved to be killed. My response was that she would never understand, to which she replied "I don't want to." My reply was, "You'll never have to." Given (a) the reported facts of the case (e.g., the victim was holding his hands up in surrender when he was shot and he was not armed), (b) police department's response to the incident, and (c) my personal experiences, it's not difficult to think that Michael Brown was killed wrongfully.

    So, I start from the above cross-racial (and gender) conversation, which typifies the general disconnect (with exceptions, of course) between Black and White cultures in the U.S. My premise on this follows from social psychological research on stereotyping. Generally speaking, stereotypes against Blacks (especially males) are negative (e.g., lazy, violent, criminal, unintelligent), with more positive stereotypic subtyping occurring for Black athletes (to an extent) and Black professionals. From this frame of reference, the not-so-obvious point to Whites in general is that upon sight (particularly to police), a given Black male will be viewed with malcontent. Couple this with occasional rude and uncivil behavior from police toward Black males (given the negative stereotype about them), it breeds negative social interactions that can easily escalate into violence (e.g., the 'suspect' forceful asserting his innocence of wrongdoing, getting upset about being racially profiled, etc.). Much of behaviors associated with aversion to Blacks are emitted unconsciously, so the perpetrators don't realize they're behaving negatively toward members of the group (see Dovidio, Gaertner, Kawakami, & Hodson, 2002 ;Dovidio et al., 1997; and Dovidio, Kawakami, & Gaertner, 2002 .

    Dovidio, J. F., Gaertner, S. L., Kawakami, K., & Hodson, G. (2002). Why canÔÇÖt we just get along? Interpersonal biases and interracial distrust. Cultural Diversity and Ethnic Minority Psychology, 8, 88-102.

    Dovidio, J. F., Kawakami, K., & Gaertner, S. L. (2002). Implicit and explicit prejudice and interracial interaction. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 82, 62-68.

    Dovidio, J. F., Kawakami, K., Johnson, C., Johnson, B., & Howard, A. (1997). The nature of prejudice: Automatic and controlled processes. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 33, 510-540.

    To give more context about me, I have a doctorate degree in Industrial-Organizational Psychology and I am a Full Professor at a top university in the U.S. Yet a month ago, when my wife and I were in Hawaii (Maui and Kauai) over two weeks, and staying at a 5-star hotel, White folks were physically avoiding and grimacing at us like we were the scourge of the earth! I'm walking around in linen slacks or shorts, knit (or silk) shirts, and sandals, yet I had White folks leaning away from me in the elevator like I'm a leper. In the past, I was questioned by cops in my own (gated) community when living in Milwaukee, WI despite wearing a suit and tie having come from teaching an evening master's class at the university. My wife was stopped by cops at gunpoint in front of the business school where I worked in Milwaukee while on her way to work (wearing Scooby-Doo lab scrubs because she's lab tech). I say all this to say that even when you fully pursue (by working our asses off) and realize (for the most part) the American Dream, Black folks still get treated like niggers! This pretty much sums up the seemingly, relative hopelessness of widespread and congenial race relations in America. It's really sad.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak


    Hey Stacks, Thanks for the comment.

    Just a quick question. How much of a impact does gender play into this?

    I'm not trying to discredit racism in any way. But being a rather large white guy, there is an issue quite often where you get a sense that some are somewhat weary of someone just being male.

    I get in an elevator and I see women tenses up or I'm just happen to be walking behind them, they stop scared and cross the road. They might have proper reasons to be on edge, since I don't know anyones history but my own. But it honestly seems like this occurrence is rapidly growing in daily life.

    I also work for a major university. In the summers we have summer camps on campus. Just the other day I was walking into one of our main washrooms on campus and I was stopped on my way in. To which I was told that adult males are not allowed into the washroom while one of the kids are in there. At first I didn't think much of it while I waited. But then I wondered, why just males?

    Once again, not to downplay race and racism in away way. I'm just curious on scholars opinion on the subject.

  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    Hey DOR,

    Statistically, men commit more violent (and pedophilic) crimes than women, so that might explain the relative suspicion of men over women. Being a Black male compounds this stereotype, plus it's attached to longstanding socioeconomic inequalities that perpetuate intergroup racial conflict (and social distance). So, these dynamics are quite different from what you experience because no one will get upset if too many guys like you move into the neighborhood. In contrast, I could be arrested for moving in said neighborhood (e.g., the Henry Louis Gates case up in Cambridge, MA). Prof. Gates is a great example since he too is a well-educated, Black academic (for those who don't know him). Hell, he works at Harvard, yet he got 'the treatment' too as Black folks refer to it.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    It's a tragedy. An unarmed young man was shot multiple times by a cop. EMS was not called for several hours after he was killed. Witnesses are now being interviewed 6 days or so after the shooting.

    Cops refused to name the shooter until today, but haven't released any details of the shooting. Meanwhile they release a report about the victim allegedly robbing a store of some swisher sweets, and pushing the clerk, with photo images, but no photo of the shooter.

    Classic case of the cops engaged in a cover up, and an attempt to portray the unarmed victim as somehow deserving of his execution.

    b/w

    Don't trust the Ferguson Police.


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

  • strataspherestratasphere Blastin' the Nasty 1,035 Posts
    :icallbullshit: I'll leave it at that.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,901 Posts
    Thanks Stacks for the reply.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,901 Posts
    Bon Vivant said:

    I was reading this earlier. Shit is disgusting. The governor needs to shut them down and heads should roll.

  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    DOR said:
    Thanks Stacks for the reply.

    You're welcome, my man! I teach Diversity in Organizations (among other subjects such as statistics, staffing, etc.), so I study intergroup dynamics quite often. I enjoy discussing the topics.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    Hey,

    Here is something I posted on the 'Strut back in 2008, some food for thought in light of the Ferguson, MO incident:

    "Hey Willie,

    Excellent observation on your part, and given prior theory and research, I predict that you'll see a spike in anti-minority sentiments among Whites compared to just a few years ago. Also, there were reports of anti-minority violence, perpetrated by angry Whites, shortly after Obama's election win, which corroborates group position theory (Blumer, 1958; Bobo, 1999). In this theory, members of high-status groups are predicted to become more hostile in response to perceived threats to their privileged status position in society. To some, President-Elect Obama personifies this form of threat. It will be interesting to see the implications that the economy and relevant events have for race relations in the near future.

    References:

    Blumer, H. (1958). Race prejudice as a sense of group position. Pacific Sociological Review, 1, 3-7.

    Bobo, L. D. (1999). Prejudice as group position: Microfoundations of a sociological approach to racism and race relations. Journal of Social Issues, 55, 445-473."

    Here's the link to the full thread: http://www.soulstrut.com/index.php?/forums/viewthread/7042/

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    In Portland and Oregon the police shoot unarmed people all the time.
    It is always the same.
    Vilify the victim.
    Protect the officer.
    If there is enough public out cry the next steps will be:
    Discipline the officer (loss of pay, rank).
    Followed by an appeal which will overturn the discipline.
    All of this takes years.

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    In Portland and Oregon the police shoot unarmed people all the time.
    It is always the same.
    Vilify the victim.
    Protect the officer.
    If there is enough public out cry the next steps will be:
    Discipline the officer (loss of pay, rank).
    Followed by an appeal which will overturn the discipline.
    All of this takes years.


    Generally how it works in Spokane.


  • kalakala 3,361 Posts
    Bon Vivant said:
    LaserWolf said:
    In Portland and Oregon the police shoot unarmed people all the time.
    It is always the same.
    Vilify the victim.
    Protect the officer.
    If there is enough public out cry the next steps will be:
    Discipline the officer (loss of pay, rank).
    Followed by an appeal which will overturn the discipline.
    All of this takes years.


    Generally how it works in allover this fucked racist fascist cunt-tree known as AMOREIKKKA

    FIXED LIKE A JUNKIE

  • I posted about this initially in the smiling white people thread. I got some bullshit from "Battyboy420"

    The shit has been going for a week on twitter, levels deep including people on the ground, journalists, witnesses, and smart people.

    I'm done here. Fuck are we gonna talk about?

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    DOR said:
    Bon Vivant said:

    I was reading this earlier. Shit is disgusting. The governor needs to shut them down and heads should roll.

    Very disgusting. The Brown shooter came up at the time it was acceptable to do shit like this.

  • parallaxparallax no-style-having mf'er 1,266 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    I posted about this initially in the smiling white people thread. I got some bullshit from "Battyboy420"

    The shit has been going for a week on twitter, levels deep including people on the ground, journalists, witnesses, and smart people.

    I'm done here. Fuck are we gonna talk about?

    Batty was a troll from day 1 and got ignored by me soon after--I urge others to do the same in lieu of a ban.

    b/w

    "Many years ago, I had the honour of attending the Four Winds Assembly, hosted by the Anishinabe of the Saugeen First Nation. The Assembly was a gathering inspired by a prophecy that eventually the four winds ("races") of the earth would once again assemble together in a time of reconciliation. But reconciliation can only happen when people meet as equals, when they meet to confront the truth, and agree to walk together in a spirit of mutual healing. Lilla Watson, an indigenous Australian artist, expressed this idea of mutual healing most eloquently, stating:

    'If you have come here to help me, you are wasting our time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.'"

    In terms of "race" relations among blacks and whites, I think the above holds true.

    I think I did some damage in that thread and I apologize.

    Will lay low and cool off with the political threads for a bit.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    .

  • How is this dude still on the board? I'm all for opposing viewpoints, but it's getting old.

  • Thank you.

  • volumenvolumen 2,532 Posts
    Like lazer said it's the same old bs and unfortunately we are used to it. It's ironic that it took this for politicians to concider give military equipment to cops was a bad idea. Of course it's unlikely that will change given who it benefits and the influence they have. The press conference today was a joke detailing the new curfew but un able to detail the investigation into the cops actions. I understand that not the hp's job but the governor needs to show some control over his police force. Even the cops neighbors are making excuses for him say he must ave had a reason because he was a nice guy. News flash that's pretty much what neighbors of killers always say.

  • GaryGary 3,982 Posts
    Controller_7 said:
    How is this dude still on the board? I'm all for opposing viewpoints, but it's getting old.

    "Troll" isn't a viewpoint.

    HE NEEDS TEH BAN

  • Gary said:
    Controller_7 said:
    How is this dude still on the board? I'm all for opposing viewpoints, but it's getting old.

    "Troll" isn't a viewpoint.

    HE NEEDS TEH BAN

    I think he's gone, all the posts disappeared.

  • DuderonomyDuderonomy Haut de la Garenne 7,788 Posts
    Just watched South Park: World War Zimmerman.

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,033 Posts
    Shot 6 times, twice in the head.
    An unarmed kid.
    Jesus fucking Christ.

    The whole country should be rioting.
    Commercial loss is the only thing Teh Man will listen to.

  • It was Summer. Two boys strolled pleasantly down the street, the beating sun on their necks, the bird song in their ears, and in their heads a giddy blaze of cotton candy, toffee apples, cartwheels, and all the other things boys heads are filled with at this time of the year.

    Suddenly, the picturesque scene was shattered by the screeching tires of a patrol car as it swerved in front of the boys.

    "What y'all be doin in these here parts" snarled the police officer, stroking his gun.

    "Why, Sir", offered Mike brown the larger, gentler and more innocent of the two boys, "we are but two young lads on our way to my mothers. She has cooked us a pumpkin pie. Would you care to join us?"

    "BRARRRRRRR" roared the officer as he began shooting Mike for no reason at all. BANG. One bullet. BANG. Another. BANG.

    - Camera zooms out from mike brown as he slumps to the floor before panning to a shot of a tear trickling down the statue of liberty's cheek -

    ---------------------

    Above is the reality based community's account of events. Here is the based reality's reaction:

    SHUT THE FUCK UP. You don't know what happened. How would you? You don't know why your girl left, you dont know why you cant put on any muscle no matter how much you work out, you dotn know why your boss keeps overlooking you for promotion. If you don't know these things about yourself( btw the answer to all three is: YOURE A PANSY) then why pretend you know what happened in an event you werent witness to?

    Think about it, dickwads. Youve allowed your political prejudices, your passionate longing to believe ill of american society, to form firm convictions almost entirely on the basis of testimony from a criminal with neck tatoos, the stupidest form of tatoo. The first autopsy has already established that he was lying when he said Brown was shot in the back. How much much further will the existing narrative disintegrate in contact with the facts? I dont know but I feel we will soon have to contend with the revelation that the criminal with the stupid tatoos on his stupid neck is not the paragon of moral integrity that you would expect him to be.

    This is what happens when instead of a brain your skull is host to a giant ovary that endlessly squirts estrogen through your skinny fat body. You emote, you feel, you quiver with injustice, but you do not think about anything. Odds are that this will be another example of the media running away with itself and yet again you idiots will not learn a god damn thing.

  • DuderonomyDuderonomy Haut de la Garenne 7,788 Posts
    So are the pro-2nd amendment crowd there fighting the tyrannical gu'bmnt? This is what all those school children died for, now's your time to let off a few rounds. Yee-haw!
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