DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
If radio's influence is waning, it's because The Kids no longer have any need for traditional radio to act as a filter/gatekeeper anymore - music writers already learned this the hard way. Now more than ever, by the time it hits radio, it's old.
There's something a bit "old man yells at cloud rap" about Chuck's tirade, as is the case with many of his peers, though if anyone's earned the right to be Grumpy Old Rap Dude, it's him. But no matter how righteous a case Chuck may make for the most part, people need to get off this idea that the only reason Drake/Weezy/Nicki et al are popular is because The Kids have been "brainwashed" by The Man.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
DocMcCoy said:
people need to get off this idea that the only reason Drake/Weezy/Nicki et al are popular is because The Kids have been "brainwashed" by The Man.
It's not the only reason, but it certainly helps when those select artists practically hold a monopoly over mainstream forums.
Again, I think...no, I actually know first hand...that when young people are exposed to other options from the mainstream, which is rare nowadays, they appreciate it.
Saying kids dont listen to the radio or radio doesnt matter in 2014 is quite simply and utterly wrong. The graph posted above shows radio has a huge reach and am/fm radio has the second largest daily reach in the usa, with 80% of the population being reached by live tv broadcast and the second medium following that is am/fm radio reaching 59% of the population on a daily basis. With Hip hop / urban being one of the largest genres, you do the math. bloggers, spotify and soundcloud etc. are not seeing radio.
Statistics and facts on the U.S. Radio Industry
Radio is the second most powerful medium in the United States, reaching 59 percent of the countryÔÇÖs population daily. In comparison, 49 percent are reached by the Internet while print media accounts for 13 percent. Only TV, with a daily reach of 80 percent, is consumed on a daily basis by a broader audience. Online radio is, somewhat surprisingly, used by just 15 percent of American radio listeners, even though close to 80 percent of the U.S. population has access to the internet.
Secondly all of the am/fm radio station have digital outlets, such as a huge presence on twitter - ie jocks tweeting - as well as other social media. check out hot97s youtube channel. Radio excerpts and exclusives all find their way on the net and rack up digits there too. What do you think Vevo is and who is behind that?
Then theres the staging of events such as summer jam etc adding to that influence leading to the conclusion quite obviously radio is bigger than the internet as far as reach is concerned. 'kids' listen to radio on their mobile devices too. So all of you claiming radio doesnt matter or has no pull nowadays are simply mistaken. People tend to think the internet rules media - especially people who use the internet a lot - when in fact traditional and terrestial media have a much wider reach than digital platforms. See how many people are aware of your music when you blog it - then compare that to being added to clear channels playlist. srsly.
so - no - radio is not irrelevant, it is shaping the way young people consume music and its agenda fucking sucks culturally in more ways than one.
exposure to a more diverse landscape, leads to more diverse consumption, the media do not follow the audience - they dictate what the audience will consume. Where the fusk do you think Miley Cyrus came from? Children discovered her online? stop kidding yourself.
Chuck D in his mid 50s seems to be more aware and up to date on the impact and the message being propagated than the folks in this thread claiming otherwise. racist stereotypes, ignorance and consumerism being forced down everyones throat is a major issue, not an old man tin foil conspiracy theory.
Mar 18, 2003, 10:26am EST
Dixie Chicks axed by Clear Channel
Michael Fitzgerald
Country music's No. 1 act, The Dixie Chicks, have been pulled from radio playlists thanks to a remark singer Natalie Maines made in London last week.
"Just so you know," Texas native Maines said on stage, "we're ashamed that the president of the United States is from Texas." Maines added she felt George W. Bush's foreign policy is alienating the rest of the world.
Her remark unleashed a nationwide backlash. The group's records have been pulled by dozens of country-music stations across the country, including two Clear Channel-owned stations in Jacksonville, WQIK 99.1-FM and WROO 107.3-FM.
"Out of respect for our troops, our city and our listeners, [we] have taken the Dixie Chicks off our playlists," said Gail Austin, Clear Channel's director of programming for the two Jacksonville stations.
That's a big leap in logic, said media expert Dennis Stouse, a Jacksonville University professor and chairman of the school's department of communications. "It doesn't have anything to do with our troops or our city."
Punishing Maines for speaking her mind does not fit into the American idea of democracy, he said. "We should accept the fact that there are viewpoints we don't agree with." Celebrities have as much right to make political commentary as do television pundits, he added.
Maines apologized for the remark last Friday. However, Clear Channel confirmed Tuesday the group's music is still not being aired by either station.
Clear Channel Communications is based in San Antonio, Texas.
I dont know any kids in my building that listen to FOT 97.
They can present all the graphs and illusionary percentages they want.
Muthafuckas can walk thru Orchard Beach on a Saturday afternoon and listen to what folks are rockin. Its not 5 hours of Hot 97.
We can go to any local basketball park and listen......any handball court......
B/W..
Public Enema got radio play from the first single P.E.#1...
They had steady radio play on NYC Rap radio (BLS/Kiss/and underground shows all the way through the first 4 albums.
Def Jam Payola from Jump.
Now as far as daytime all Hip Hop/Urban/Hot radio formats later.....only during old school at noon segments.
If radio's influence is waning, it's because The Kids no longer have any need for traditional radio to act as a filter/gatekeeper anymore - music writers already learned this the hard way. Now more than ever, by the time it hits radio, it's old.
There's something a bit "old man yells at cloud rap" about Chuck's tirade, as is the case with many of his peers, though if anyone's earned the right to be Grumpy Old Rap Dude, it's him. But no matter how righteous a case Chuck may make for the most part, people need to get off this idea that the only reason Drake/Weezy/Nicki et al are popular is because The Kids have been "brainwashed" by The Man.
You could be overestimating da kidz fervour for seeking out new music. I think most just consume it and they still want people to filter it for them but Chuck railing at the lack of realness on commercial radio is 25 years too late. Commercial radio and TV are still key platforms giving teens their pop music cues and The Man still runs the show when it comes marketing that kind of music to the kids, even online: hell, the VEVO channel accounts for up to 40% of Youtube's music video viewing on some days. Half a dozen A-list songs on a 2 hr rotation over 3 months is how commercial radio works, Chuck.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
batmon said:
I dont know any kids in my building that listen to FOT 97.
They can present all the graphs and illusionary percentages they want.
Muthafuckas can walk thru Orchard Beach on a Saturday afternoon and listen to what folks are rockin. Its not 5 hours of Hot 97.
We can go to any local basketball park and listen......any handball court......
Yeah and it might not be the actual radio on. But chances are good that it's the same 12 songs or at least the same 8 artists that the radio plays over and over and over...
I dont know any kids in my building that listen to FOT 97.
They can present all the graphs and illusionary percentages they want.
Muthafuckas can walk thru Orchard Beach on a Saturday afternoon and listen to what folks are rockin. Its not 5 hours of Hot 97.
We can go to any local basketball park and listen......any handball court......
Yeah and it might not be the actual radio on. But chances are good that it's the same 12 songs or at least the same 8 artists that the radio plays over and over and over...
Yup..it on at the local store and bullshit fashion joints on Fordham, but not on at 11pm for 16 year old Jacki's Friday Nite Get together.
Public Enema got radio play from the first single P.E.#1...
They had steady radio play on NYC Rap radio (BLS/Kiss/and underground shows all the way through the first 4 albums.
radio... suckers never play me
black radio, yes I said black radio, is putting most of us to sleep in the 90s
only PE I really heard on *non-underground/late nite/mixshow* radio was "Fight The Power" and "Don't Believe The Hype".
difference is, nowadays there is not really underground/late nite/mix show radio (with the notable exception of.... Rosenberg's show.... on Hot 97.... and the several different classic hip-hop shows on WBLS)
I am entirely sympathetic to the overall point of wanting more diversity on the airwaves but dudes need better arguments. this shit is vague as fuck and not really addressing reality.
Public Enema got radio play from the first single P.E.#1...
They had steady radio play on NYC Rap radio (BLS/Kiss/and underground shows all the way through the first 4 albums.
radio... suckers never play me
black radio, yes I said black radio, is putting most of us to sleep in the 90s
only PE I really heard on *non-underground/late nite/mixshow* radio was "Fight The Power" and "Don't Believe The Hype".
difference is, nowadays there is not really underground/late nite/mix show radio (with the notable exception of.... Rosenberg's show.... on Hot 97.... and the several different classic hip-hop shows on WBLS)
I am entirely sympathetic to the overall point of wanting more diversity on the airwaves but dudes need better arguments. this shit is vague as fuck and not really addressing reality.
Yeah
I ready didnt expect to hear Public Enemy on any daytime/primetime mainstream NYC radio show in 87-89.
Hip Hop still had somewhat of a counter-cultural stance back then.
right. I guess my point is you didn't hear Teh Real Shit on the radio back then... you still don't.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Jonny_Paycheck said:
right. I guess my point is you didn't hear Teh Real Shit on the radio back then... you still don't.
We did in Houston though. And shoot, it lasted well into the late 90's as being at least halfway decent, maybe even better as Houston classics like Southside, Tops Drop, 25 Lighters, etc. started dropping. Jdeez could elaborate more on that as he was in the mix there for a while.
But now of course it's just the same Clear Channel bs on repeat.
well see.... the same thing could be said about the Bay Area to a degree. Or to NYC. There used to be a lot more options, but daytime airplay was never very deep. There was probably more regional focus and occasional left field selections (not left field as in, the DJ just felt like throwing this on.... left field as in, random songs that happened to catch on in a particular market. For instance I still hear shit like "Pistolgrippump" on *daytime* radio in the Bay). There have always been Program Directors.
the songs being played on air right now are *these kids'* classics. It is what it is. they ain't gonna opt for Freddie Gibbs, that's dad rap to them.
So maybe kids in your building and on orchard beach dont constitute the vast masses? You saying they arent listening to hot97, arent they still bumping the same shit the radio plays? Whats vague about attacking radio and major media outlets for pushing monotone mindless drivel and propagating/commodifying racial slurs? Btw this goes beyond your block, its a worldwide fenom. Is your next post going to be the equivalent of staring at your navel and saying statistics arent real and everything is 'just the way it is'? I might not agree with everything chuck is saying but if he can sonehow affect corporate monopoly over the representation of a genre of music he cares about, thats far from futile methinks. Chuck d is in quite a unique position being who he is and im willing to lend him my ear on this. Hes trying to raise awareness of how a corporation seems to be setting a cultural agenda based on recent events, ie summer jam 2014 if that wasnt abundantly clear already. So its not old man don quichoting about radio not being real. Its just the opposite of being defeatist and complacent and not taking offense at offensive shit.
right. I guess my point is you didn't hear Teh Real Shit on the radio back then... you still don't.
No doubt.
There was a small window when a percentage of "Underground" Hip Hop was being played alongside Bangers(Bangers w/ street cred) when Hot 97 first started. And that was still when there were late-late night options.
I dont see what the long term effect will be if Fart 97 did "diversify" their playlist. Or even if they "cleansed" the content.
So maybe kids in your building and on orchard beach dont constitute the vast masses? You saying they arent listening to hot97, arent they still bumping the same shit the radio plays? Whats vague about attacking radio and major media outlets for pushing monotone mindless drivel and propagating/commodifying racial slurs? Btw this goes beyond your block, its a worldwide fenom. Is your next post going to be the equivalent of staring at your navel and saying statistics arent real and everything is 'just the way it is'? I might not agree with everything chuck is saying but if he can sonehow affect corporate monopoly over the representation of a genre of music he cares about, thats far from futile methinks. Chuck d is in quite a unique position being who he is and im willing to lend him my ear on this. Hes trying to raise awareness of how a corporation seems to be setting a cultural agenda based on recent events, ie summer jam 2014 if that wasnt abundantly clear already. So its not old man don quichoting about radio not being real. Its just the opposite of being defeatist and complacent and not taking offense at offensive shit.
So maybe kids in your building and on orchard beach dont constitute the vast masses? You saying they arent listening to hot97, arent they still bumping the same shit the radio plays? Whats vague about attacking radio and major media outlets for pushing monotone mindless drivel and propagating/commodifying racial slurs? Btw this goes beyond your block, its a worldwide fenom. Is your next post going to be the equivalent of staring at your navel and saying statistics arent real and everything is 'just the way it is'? I might not agree with everything chuck is saying but if he can sonehow affect corporate monopoly over the representation of a genre of music he cares about, thats far from futile methinks. Chuck d is in quite a unique position being who he is and im willing to lend him my ear on this. Hes trying to raise awareness of how a corporation seems to be setting a cultural agenda based on recent events, ie summer jam 2014 if that wasnt abundantly clear already. So its not old man don quichoting about radio not being real. Its just the opposite of being defeatist and complacent and not taking offense at offensive shit.
Hot 97 is a Global trendsetter in 2014?
NYC hasnt been the Nexus for a long minute.
Chuck D wants Urban radio to "get it right or be gone" -- and he's not just talking about Hot 97 in New York.
"My goal by year's end is to change the face and sound of urban radio," Chuck D, 54, promised. "I've been in this shit 30 years, too long to just sit and let it be. I'm not going to be the grim reaper. I don't want to be the grim reaper. But people have to stand up and we need some change, and it's time."
"The reason kids like [Hot 97] is their parents don't."
ÔÇ£My only deep sorrow is the unrelenting insistence of recording and motion picture companies upon purveying the most brutal, ugly, degenerate, vicious form of expression it has been my displeasure to hearÔÇöNaturally I refer to the bulk of [Hot 97]."
"It fosters almost totally negative and destructive reactions in young people. It smells phony and false. It is sung, played and written for the most part by cretinous goons"
I remember when PE never got played on the radio. Back then there were precisely NONE of the channels kids have nowadays, including but not limited to the traditional record biz.
This doesn't include college radio tho, right? I remember looking at nationwide charts across North America and it was a normal thing to see PE charted and played. And thats a major difference today. When we were growing up. A massive amount of "youth" radio was from college stations. Today, the youth have completely changed the way they consume music and it's college radio that is dying in a big way.
"Though D labeled comments that Hot 97 personalities Ebro Darden and Peter Rosenberg made to Billboard in response to his criticisms "a bunch of hogwash," the MC said his argument is less with them and more with station ownership.
"It's about their bosses," D said. "That's where the discussion needs to go."
The deregulation and consolidation of the airwaves happened over time and that ship has long sailed.
Neither Chuck nor The Consolidated Internets Of Our Discontent will change a damn thing about it.
The same thing is happening to the actual web right now. All of the various other channels and avenues for hearing different/new music are in danger. Blogs have been coopted, Internet radio as well. I wish Chuck and others would focus less on Summer Jam and bad words and Da Kulcha and big bad multimedia corporations and more on the actual issues that are currently in flux, where grassroots support might still matter.
College radio never ruled the airwaves.
Mainstream corporate radio has always been what most people listen to.
Mainstream corporate radio has always been for sapheads.
The kids will be just fine.
Hip hop may, or may not, survive.
If hip hop survives it will be because of young dynamic artists connecting with a young audience.
It is not the job of corporate radio to save hip hop.
So you guys reckon Angie Martinez' resignation and move to power 105.1 had anything to do with this?
Announcing a sudden departure on the day via instagram?
This is a tremendous coup by a station that has always played the little brother role given HOTÔÇÖs legacy in NYC. Which makes WQHTÔÇÖs spat with rap immortal Chuck D troubling. Peter Rosenberg and EbroÔÇÖs decision to dismiss the Public Enemy frontman as just some senile senior citizen drew ire from the Twittersphere, most notably, from former Hot 97 "Morning Show" personality Star. Maybe the events that have transpired in recent months pushed Angie out the door for greener pastures.
Comments
There's something a bit "old man yells at cloud rap" about Chuck's tirade, as is the case with many of his peers, though if anyone's earned the right to be Grumpy Old Rap Dude, it's him. But no matter how righteous a case Chuck may make for the most part, people need to get off this idea that the only reason Drake/Weezy/Nicki et al are popular is because The Kids have been "brainwashed" by The Man.
It's not the only reason, but it certainly helps when those select artists practically hold a monopoly over mainstream forums.
Again, I think...no, I actually know first hand...that when young people are exposed to other options from the mainstream, which is rare nowadays, they appreciate it.
Secondly all of the am/fm radio station have digital outlets, such as a huge presence on twitter - ie jocks tweeting - as well as other social media. check out hot97s youtube channel. Radio excerpts and exclusives all find their way on the net and rack up digits there too. What do you think Vevo is and who is behind that?
Then theres the staging of events such as summer jam etc adding to that influence leading to the conclusion quite obviously radio is bigger than the internet as far as reach is concerned. 'kids' listen to radio on their mobile devices too. So all of you claiming radio doesnt matter or has no pull nowadays are simply mistaken. People tend to think the internet rules media - especially people who use the internet a lot - when in fact traditional and terrestial media have a much wider reach than digital platforms. See how many people are aware of your music when you blog it - then compare that to being added to clear channels playlist. srsly.
so - no - radio is not irrelevant, it is shaping the way young people consume music and its agenda fucking sucks culturally in more ways than one.
exposure to a more diverse landscape, leads to more diverse consumption, the media do not follow the audience - they dictate what the audience will consume. Where the fusk do you think Miley Cyrus came from? Children discovered her online? stop kidding yourself.
Chuck D in his mid 50s seems to be more aware and up to date on the impact and the message being propagated than the folks in this thread claiming otherwise. racist stereotypes, ignorance and consumerism being forced down everyones throat is a major issue, not an old man tin foil conspiracy theory.
They can present all the graphs and illusionary percentages they want.
Muthafuckas can walk thru Orchard Beach on a Saturday afternoon and listen to what folks are rockin. Its not 5 hours of Hot 97.
We can go to any local basketball park and listen......any handball court......
B/W..
Public Enema got radio play from the first single P.E.#1...
They had steady radio play on NYC Rap radio (BLS/Kiss/and underground shows all the way through the first 4 albums.
Def Jam Payola from Jump.
Now as far as daytime all Hip Hop/Urban/Hot radio formats later.....only during old school at noon segments.
You could be overestimating da kidz fervour for seeking out new music. I think most just consume it and they still want people to filter it for them but Chuck railing at the lack of realness on commercial radio is 25 years too late. Commercial radio and TV are still key platforms giving teens their pop music cues and The Man still runs the show when it comes marketing that kind of music to the kids, even online: hell, the VEVO channel accounts for up to 40% of Youtube's music video viewing on some days. Half a dozen A-list songs on a 2 hr rotation over 3 months is how commercial radio works, Chuck.
Yeah and it might not be the actual radio on. But chances are good that it's the same 12 songs or at least the same 8 artists that the radio plays over and over and over...
Yup..it on at the local store and bullshit fashion joints on Fordham, but not on at 11pm for 16 year old Jacki's Friday Nite Get together.
radio... suckers never play me
black radio, yes I said black radio, is putting most of us to sleep in the 90s
only PE I really heard on *non-underground/late nite/mixshow* radio was "Fight The Power" and "Don't Believe The Hype".
difference is, nowadays there is not really underground/late nite/mix show radio (with the notable exception of.... Rosenberg's show.... on Hot 97.... and the several different classic hip-hop shows on WBLS)
I am entirely sympathetic to the overall point of wanting more diversity on the airwaves but dudes need better arguments. this shit is vague as fuck and not really addressing reality.
Yeah
I ready didnt expect to hear Public Enemy on any daytime/primetime mainstream NYC radio show in 87-89.
Hip Hop still had somewhat of a counter-cultural stance back then.
We did in Houston though. And shoot, it lasted well into the late 90's as being at least halfway decent, maybe even better as Houston classics like Southside, Tops Drop, 25 Lighters, etc. started dropping. Jdeez could elaborate more on that as he was in the mix there for a while.
But now of course it's just the same Clear Channel bs on repeat.
the songs being played on air right now are *these kids'* classics. It is what it is. they ain't gonna opt for Freddie Gibbs, that's dad rap to them.
No doubt.
There was a small window when a percentage of "Underground" Hip Hop was being played alongside Bangers(Bangers w/ street cred) when Hot 97 first started. And that was still when there were late-late night options.
I dont see what the long term effect will be if Fart 97 did "diversify" their playlist. Or even if they "cleansed" the content.
Hot 97 is a Global trendsetter in 2014?
NYC hasnt been the Nexus for a long minute.
Either way......what do u forsee coming out of this if he and his support actually succeeded?
Then chase down You Tube Rappers to regulate themselves?
note flav on drums and bass
ÔÇ£My only deep sorrow is the unrelenting insistence of recording and motion picture companies upon purveying the most brutal, ugly, degenerate, vicious form of expression it has been my displeasure to hearÔÇöNaturally I refer to the bulk of [Hot 97]."
"It fosters almost totally negative and destructive reactions in young people. It smells phony and false. It is sung, played and written for the most part by cretinous goons"
This doesn't include college radio tho, right? I remember looking at nationwide charts across North America and it was a normal thing to see PE charted and played. And thats a major difference today. When we were growing up. A massive amount of "youth" radio was from college stations. Today, the youth have completely changed the way they consume music and it's college radio that is dying in a big way.
Isn't that what he's doing?
"Though D labeled comments that Hot 97 personalities Ebro Darden and Peter Rosenberg made to Billboard in response to his criticisms "a bunch of hogwash," the MC said his argument is less with them and more with station ownership.
"It's about their bosses," D said. "That's where the discussion needs to go."
Neither Chuck nor The Consolidated Internets Of Our Discontent will change a damn thing about it.
The same thing is happening to the actual web right now. All of the various other channels and avenues for hearing different/new music are in danger. Blogs have been coopted, Internet radio as well. I wish Chuck and others would focus less on Summer Jam and bad words and Da Kulcha and big bad multimedia corporations and more on the actual issues that are currently in flux, where grassroots support might still matter.
Man I remember when college radio was great, and I was able to build my collection of rare groove and hip-hop from raiding the li- oh wait, nvrmnd
Mainstream corporate radio has always been what most people listen to.
Mainstream corporate radio has always been for sapheads.
The kids will be just fine.
Hip hop may, or may not, survive.
If hip hop survives it will be because of young dynamic artists connecting with a young audience.
It is not the job of corporate radio to save hip hop.
AWB - Cut The Cake-related
Announcing a sudden departure on the day via instagram?
There some speculation about this over at Complex