Let the Fire Burn

FrankFrank 2,373 Posts
edited March 2014 in Strut Central
I thought I remembered there being a documentary thread but couldn't find it. Anyway, this is really amazing stuff:



In order to get a fuller picture and to not miss things that are mentioned in passing I'd recommend reading the book first.

  Comments


  • rootlesscosmorootlesscosmo 12,848 Posts
    I wanna see this.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    Thx for the reminder. Gonna watch now.

  • ppadilhappadilha 2,244 Posts
    I've been wanting to see this since I first read about it.

    Not really related but anyone else see "Jonestown: the life and death of people's temple"? It's pretty amazing. Came out in 2006, I think there were two Jonestown docs that year but this was the better one of the two.

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    i watched the smoke curl over the rooftops from my window when i was ten.
    excrutiating events

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    was *just* telling my pop about this.

    can't wait to watch, didn't know it was out yet.

  • FrankFrank 2,373 Posts
    Not sure if it's out on DVD yet... I have to admit I stole it on the internet...

    Again, I highly recommend reading the book first as it provides great background information and also some mind boggling side- and epilogue stories like for example how Mayor Goode, after burning down 60 homes, awarded the rebuilding project to some sketchy firm that already was on the brink of bankruptcy and promptly embezzled millions of dollars. And then Goode got re-elected for another term.. wtf? The documentary also omits the fact that the Police tried to cover up that they used C4 for the makeshift bomb they dropped onto the house which is described to great detail in the book along with how the police managed to get their hands on the C4 in the first place.

    The book also delivers some great insight into the ideas behind MOVE.

    The angles on some details of the events are portrayed slightly different in the book and the movie. Which is quite interesting. When events like these get out of control the truth becomes very illusive and sometimes impossible to find. From the available facts there is the possibility, some might even say a strong one that in both, the first raid in '78 and the '85 end game no shots ever were fired by MOVE. In '78 no operable weapons were found inside the house, supporting the theory that Officer Ramp was killed by a stray police bullet. In 1985 the first bursts of gunfire were clearly from automatic weapons, a fact that even the police does not dispute, yet, there were no automatic weapons found in the smoldering ruins of the MOVE house. The police fired a total of more than 10.000 rounds that day.

    Then there's the question if there was or wasn't police gunfire in the back alley (no tv cameras there...). The MOVE commission concluded that it was police gunfire that, after trying to get out, made most of the MOVE members re-enter the burning building. The movie seems to go along with this while the book concludes that it was rounds from ammunition left behind by MOVE members and (in the surrounding buildings) by the police that were going off in the raging fire along with cracking, burning wood and falling debris that gave the fleeing MOVE members the impression they were under police gun fire.

    The main question that will always remain is how in the fucking hell could something like this happen at all? It's like the entire leadership of a city abandoned all reason and acted like they were in Vietnam.

  • FrankFrank 2,373 Posts
    tripledouble said:
    i watched the smoke curl over the rooftops from my window when i was ten.
    excrutiating events

    Yeah, I was wondering how the Philly people on this board were remembering this. What was the sentiment of the people around you concerning these events?

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,391 Posts
    ppadilha said:
    I've been wanting to see this since I first read about it.

    Not really related but anyone else see "Jonestown: the life and death of people's temple"? It's pretty amazing. Came out in 2006, I think there were two Jonestown docs that year but this was the better one of the two.

    Amazing documentary.

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    Frank said:
    tripledouble said:
    i watched the smoke curl over the rooftops from my window when i was ten.
    excrutiating events

    Yeah, I was wondering how the Philly people on this board were remembering this. What was the sentiment of the people around you concerning these events?

    my parents are progressives, so, like the majority of the city, they were absolutely horrified. widely recognized that the city let the surrounding houses in a working class black neighborhood burn, which never would have happened in a middle class white neighborhood. ive spoken to people who lived in cobbs creek (near the osage house) and most testify to move being fairly obnoxious on a consistent basis. megaphones blaring the teachings of john africa being one often sited nuisance. that being said, the city exterminated them, besides Ramona (who is still around) and Birdie (who, strangely, died on a cruise last year). move is still in the neighborhood. their house is 3 blocks from mine. there are some shady stories that have been in the press over the last years, but mostly, they keep up appearances and dont seem to bother anyone. they had a borderline annoying rap group (seeds of wisdom?) that may still be around. my mom was at a vigil for trayvon last month and said a move lady was on the mic dropping a lot of f bombs and saying that to her killing a dog was as serious as killing a child, and neither should happen (i think it came out even stranger than that).

    of course there is the "how could it ever happen" reaction, but keep in mind that the attack on the powelton compound was very much in the era of cointelpro type suppression of black panthers and militants. panthers caught all kinds of shit in philly, like most everywhere else and the type of armed attack is very much in line of how they were systematically targeted for destruction. you probably knew all this, but its hardly hypothetical. concerted federal and local policies of murdering agitators is absolutely factual and the american way

    side note is the Mumia Abu Jamal circus. He was a panther and journalist who covered MOVE for local NPR affiliate. he was very friendly with the organization, which made his sham of a trial no surprise.

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    i remember there were teacher led classroom discussions the next day, but i dont remember how they played out.

    the trials of Goode and Sambor as well as the testimony of Birdie Africa were watched by the entire city.
    I dont know how Goode got reelected, but the Inquirer did an expose about the corrupt rebuilding of the Osage homes. it was a process that went on for decades. shoddy homes built on shoddy suburban plots and no end of problems

    side note. as a kid, i remember a radio interview during the bombing where a resident whose home was in flames was in tears about his irreplaceable album collection. not sure why that specifically stuck with me at the time. probably because it humanized and placed value on a neighborhood that rarely got that kind of media treatment. the shit made me cry

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I remember watching this story unfold in the morning newspaper back then.
    I was absolutely horrified and outraged.
    But what I heard many people say then (including neighbors who lost homes), and in rare occasions when it comes up since, is 'yeah, but they didn't take out their trash, there were rats'.
    No one ever wanted to criticize the mayor or police.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    tripledouble said:

    my parents are progressives, so, like the majority of the city, they were absolutely horrified.

    I stand corrected.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I also remember the neighbor who lost a massive jazz collection. I think I remember him talking about his Ellington 78s.
    I was on the West Coast following the story in the press.

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    John Edgar Wiseman wrote an interesting novel/memoir about the events called "Philadelphia Fire". I remember watching it on the news. Totally tucked.

  • tripledouble said:
    there are some shady stories that have been in the press over the last years, but mostly, they keep up appearances and dont seem to bother anyone.

    What kind of stories? Could you perhaps elaborate some more on this?

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    google john gilbride murder. there was a custody battle, gilbride leaving the MOVE family, charged court proceedings, and Gilbride getting wacked. i forget the exact details but i remember reading an article in a philly weekly that raised some eyebrows

    ramona africa is still very active in the community

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    google john gilbride murder. there was a custody battle, gilbride leaving the MOVE family, charged court proceedings, and Gilbride getting wacked. i forget the exact details but i remember reading an article in a philly weekly that raised some eyebrows

    ramona africa is still very active in the community
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