God help me, a Pasdenas/Al Foster Band question

james

So I was watching on the youtubes the video for "Right On" by The Pasadenas, late of the milk carton, and only just noticed the song's similarity to the Al Foster Band's "Night Of The Wolf."

So my question is: Is the (originally Italian, if I'm remembering right?) Al Foster record a lift of some older thing that was being referenced independently by the resolutely atavistic Pasadenas? Or were said Pasadenas referencing the Al Foster record, which I know was (is?) something of a biggie on the UK jazz-dance scene, a scene which I'm guessing the Engerland-based Pasadenas would have been plugged into?

I know this is a very tiny and very obscure query, but this is the type of shit I think about, plus it strikes me as the kind of thing that some informed European dude will know off the top of his head, so I thought I'd ask here.

Thanks in advance.


p.s.: When it comes to R&B Roll-Call Songs Whose Videos Are Fucking Hard To Watch, Man, that Pasadenas jernt is up there with The Commodores' "Nightshift."

p.p.s. Even if "Nightshift" the song is actually kinda some profound shit. Don't get me started.

parallax

James, I can't hear much similarity between the 2 tracks referenced. I know Al Foster's track like the back of my hand, and well before I even knew of the Strut's existence.

The Pasadenas, on the other hand, is a new one for me. Looked 'em up on ye olde YouTubes, and I honestly can't hear more than a very vague resemblance to "Night of the Wolf".

Still, I'm no authority on anything, let alone informed and/or European.

skel

I'm still unsure of the provenance of the original.
Wiki says its Al Foster, but the Italian vinyl cites Fossati.
Wiki says M Fossati wrote the tune, but some random memory reveals the names Alberto Fossati.
It's not a huge stretch to anglicise that to Al Foster, no?

Anyways, the Italian title was Tema Del Lupo.

I don't hear it in the Pasadenas track, which seems much overt in its lifting of the structure and groove of Miracles, which was far more prevalent at that time.

And don't sleep on their Riding On A Train, a revered antidote to any melancholy one might encounter on a moody and blustery wintery day such as is the present case.

bennyboy

Yeah, like Skel says, lots more Jackson Sisters than Al Foster. That had just been rereleased at the time, and certainly more what The Pasadenas were cashing in on.

I still love those Pasadenas singles. Reading their wiki: "Band member Andrew Banfield's sister, Susan, was one half of the Cookie Crew". Well, you learn something new everyday.

james

Well, you know, I initially felt like there was a lot of similarity in the horn/wind parts that kick in after the intros of each track (after the Foster's flute intro and after the Pasadenases' bass intro), and since it's those parts that become the main musical drive/hook for each song, I felt like the songs themselves had something significant in common.

Re-listening, though, even though those parts start off the same right when they hit, they both diverge after a secomd, with the one in the Foster cutting off and remaining a short, punchy, thing--more of a riff, I guess--and the one in the Pasadenas stretching longer and becoming more of a part of the melody/chorus. So yeah, it's probably nothing.

I'm surprised I missed the Jackson Sisters connect. There's probably something to that.

Those Pasadenas records mostly still sound pretty good to me, but sometimes the endless rotating of vocal duties feels overly democratic and a little forced, a little shoehorned. The sound is usually there, though, and that counts for a lot.

And parallax, I didn't mean anything sideways by the "European" comment. It's just that in there have been more than a few times in the past when I or one of my countrymen will be nerding out over Record X, some modern(ish) record that seems to reference (sample, interpolate, etc.) Record Y, a record that we consider a deep obscurity, and after much head-scratching over how this could possibly be, some Euro dude will blithely point out that, "Oh yeah, Record Y was huge on the _____ scene / was a big tune at the ______ Club / was in a Lucozade commercial and subsequently hit #7 on the pop chart / etc." and it will suddenly all seem not so cryptic.

One dude's obscurity is another bloke's stonker, you know?

parallax

james said:

And parallax, I didn't mean anything sideways by the "European" comment. It's just that in there have been more than a few times in the past when I or one of my countrymen will be nerding out over Record X, some modern(ish) record that seems to reference (sample, interpolate, etc.) Record Y, a record that we consider a deep obscurity, and after much head-scratching over how this could possibly be, some Euro dude will blithely point out that, "Oh yeah, Record Y was huge on the _____ scene / was a big tune at the ______ Club / was in a Lucozade commercial and subsequently hit #7 on the pop chart / etc." and it will suddenly all seem not so cryptic.

One dude's obscurity is another bloke's stonker, you know?

100% James. I took it initially as you mentioned above. In fact, I feel the same way. It's one of the many things I appreciate about the community here, along with your posts.

Fairly or unfairly, I look to US dudes on questions related to regional funk/soul; and to our Euro contingent on library (which I geek hard to) and jazz, especially if its European in origin (natch). FWIW, Night Of The Wolf does sound very much like it could be a library record and I was a bit surprised when I learned waybackwhen that it was out on Roulette, and not on KPM or DeWolfe.

skel

It was picked up by Roulette after the Italian release on Fonit Cetra.

parallax

skel said:

It was picked up by Roulette after the Italian release on Fonit Cetra.

Wow. This has me geeked out. Thanks Skel.

Fonit and Cetra (iirc) came together at some point to become Fonit Cetra. There are some heavily sweated bizarro Italian libraries on Fonit by the likes of Valdambrini that go for big money. I slept on a 100EU copy of Lauth Quartet recently.

Sad panda.

b/w

Can' t wait for your sale, Skel!

Jimster

bennyboy said:

Yeah, like Skel says, lots more Jackson Sisters than Al Foster. That had just been rereleased at the time, and certainly more what The Pasadenas were cashing in on.

I still love those Pasadenas singles. Reading their wiki: "Band member Andrew Banfield's sister, Susan, was one half of the Cookie Crew". Well, you learn something new everyday.

I always thought they were good product - some catchy hooks and visually entertaining - but ultimately a novelty act, like a 4-man Milli Vanilli. I mean they were all good dancers, but I was under the impression they probably didn't all sing themselves. Maybe I was being too harsh at the time. My thoughts at the time were that there should have been Kazu Matsui records in the space Pasadena records occupied.

I mean, if the alphabet was all f*cked-up.

skel

Surely they occupied the space between the Norman Jay rarified groove scene and SAW's low-rent shtick.

The Japanese JF raers had heavy currency in the preceding era, and no doubt the Pasadenas and their handlers were well versed on that as well as RG.
And indeed the whole Britfunk lineage plays into it.

For all that, it was damn good pop with added layers for those hip to the burgeoning underground, and I wholeheartedly endorsed. And still do.

Jimster

SAW

"A" repping nice on the gee-tar. Follish to deny.

bennyboy

J i m s t e r said:

I always thought they were good product - some catchy hooks and visually entertaining - but ultimately a novelty act, like a 4-man Milli Vanilli. I mean they were all good dancers, but I was under the impression they probably didn't all sing themselves. Maybe I was being too harsh at the time. My thoughts at the time were that there should have been Kazu Matsui records in the space Pasadena records occupied.

I mean, if the alphabet was all f*cked-up.

They were a boy band essentially, just not the usual mirthless Big Fun expedition. Good pop stuff. I'm amazed they even made it past one album.