How soulful do you consider Joe Smooth's Promised Land?

DOR

Having a conversation with someone who believes tracks like Promised Land are not soulful. Is there truth to that?

james

Well, only fools and horses would say that shit's not soulful. I mean, even if you think the keys or production are a little rinky-dink or whatever, how can you front on the raw ache of the thing? I mean, yeah, its sentiments are basic, but the desire is so pure that it effectively becomes its own fulfillment. To want something that bad is, in a way, to already have it, you know?

That said, I can see why the seemingly contradictory nature of that certain strain of house--the kind that uses straight-up old-time evangelicism in the service of lifestyles to which said evangelicism has historically been, uh, less than kind--is problematic for some people. Like, how can it be so fundamentalist yet so very very gay?

Stuff like Roy Davis's "Gabriel" or Todd Edwards's more Jesus'ed-out material can get a little slippery if you think about it. So I mostly just kinda don't. Mea culpa (ironically enough).

A few years back some whitey did a cover of "Promised Land" that toned down the emotional gospel feel for more subdued introspection, which--while seeming like something a religion-averse person like myself might like--ended up being one of those things I could only listen to once.

But I'm probably gone far down the wrong track. What is your man's argument, exactly?

Beatnicholas

extremely, utterly soulful. I suppose in one way it's a gospel record so perhaps that's confusing your naysayer.

DJ_WubWub

Just tell them to fuck off.

Flomotion

DJ_WubWub said:

Just tell them to fuck off.

Yeah, but say it soulfully.

skel

Exactly how, pray, are you bunch of whiteys qualified to weigh up, and pontificate upon, a black man's soul?

Fred_Garvin

james said:

A few years back some whitey did a cover of "Promised Land" that toned down the emotional gospel feel for more subdued introspection

That was the Style Council, no? Not long after the original came out, if I remember.

But yeah, hard to deny that it's a soulful tune, even if the gospel-ly feel isn't to one's personal taste.

Flomotion

Fred_Garvin said:

james said:

A few years back some whitey did a cover of "Promised Land" that toned down the emotional gospel feel for more subdued introspection

That was the Style Council, no? Not long after the original came out, if I remember.

But yeah, hard to deny that it's a soulful tune, even if the gospel-ly feel isn't to one's personal taste.

I think this song has been murdered by a quite few people down the years but the Style Council version was really close to the original. Pretty sure my copy lists Joe Smooth on production duties. Both versions induce warehouse party flashbacks.

james

Fred_Garvin said:

james said:

A few years back some whitey did a cover of "Promised Land" that toned down the emotional gospel feel for more subdued introspection

That was the Style Council, no? Not long after the original came out, if I remember.

The one I was talking about was Findlay Brown. I just relistened to it, and while it's maybe a little better than I remember, I still can't really recommend it.

I'm still curious to hear DOR's dude's position, though.

(In a side note: Is Paul Weller the proto-Mick Collins, in terms of choosing really fucking good songs and then doing just-okay cover versions of them?)

HarveyCanal

skel said:

Exactly how, pray, are you bunch of whiteys qualified to weigh up, and pontificate upon, a black man's soul?

You are selling yourself short.

Everybody has soul, son. It ain't exclusive to black men, even though they have traditionally cornered the market.

DOR

james said:

Well, only fools and horses would say that shit's not soulful. I mean, even if you think the keys or production are a little rinky-dink or whatever, how can you front on the raw ache of the thing? I mean, yeah, its sentiments are basic, but the desire is so pure that it effectively becomes its own fulfillment. To want something that bad is, in a way, to already have it, you know?

That said, I can see why the seemingly contradictory nature of that certain strain of house--the kind that uses straight-up old-time evangelicism in the service of lifestyles to which said evangelicism has historically been, uh, less than kind--is problematic for some people. Like, how can it be so fundamentalist yet so very very gay?

Stuff like Roy Davis's "Gabriel" or Todd Edwards's more Jesus'ed-out material can get a little slippery if you think about it. So I mostly just kinda don't. Mea culpa (ironically enough).

A few years back some whitey did a cover of "Promised Land" that toned down the emotional gospel feel for more subdued introspection, which--while seeming like something a religion-averse person like myself might like--ended up being one of those things I could only listen to once.

But I'm probably gone far down the wrong track. What is your man's argument, exactly?

Another quality post and exactly what I was looking for making the post.

Personally even with everything, promise land to me is extremely soulful IMO.

This came up because I was working in a room and a playlist was running (Not mine or the guy I'm talking about) and Promise Land came on and the guy in question skips the song. The playlist was filled with music across a ton of different genres, but he only skipped that song. So I asked him why. At first he just stated that he didn't like the song. Fair enough. But then he asked me why I liked it... I ran off a couple of reasons with one of them being how soulful I found the song. With that he started to question me on it. At first going into the production merits... But a bit into he asked if I thought the song was a gay anthem. Which I only replied with "So what if it is that too? Did it matter?". At which point he went back into the production and music of the song staying away from the lyrical content.

In any case. I much more enjoyed your insights. Thx.

Sweet_Premium

DOR said:

At first he just stated that he didn't like the song. Fair enough. But then he asked me why I liked it... I ran off a couple of reasons with one of them being how soulful I found the song. With that he started to question me on it. At first going into the production merits... But a bit into he asked if I thought the song was a gay anthem. Which I only replied with "So what if it is that too? Did it matter?". At which point he went back into the production and music of the song staying away from the lyrical content.

Sounds like one annoying dude!