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Police speed trap snaring bicyclists, too

rain103rain103 476 Posts
edited October 2013 in Strut Central
Police speed trap snaring bicyclists, too


Seattle police are handing out speeding tickets not only to drivers, but to bicyclists on the downslope of Fremont Avenue North, next to B.F. Day Elementary School.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022149422_bicyclesspeedingxml.html

  Comments

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    The "safety" industry has become one of America's few profit centers left.

    It's pathetic.
  • Fred_GarvinFred_Garvin The land of wind and ghosts 337 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    The "safety" industry has become one of America's few profit centers left.

    It's pathetic.

    I agree on a number of levels, but why shouldn't bicyclists be following the same rules?

    Where I live, that's become an issue, and I see it constantly. I've twice witnessed cyclists get hit by cars in accidents that they themselves caused (one by running a red light, one by simply making a really dangerous manuever). I almost hit one myself when he ran a red and shot out just a few feet in front of me... if I hadn't seen him ahead of time and anticipated that he wasn't going to stop, he would have been hit.

    There really isn't any more of an excuse for bikes to be speeding through a school zone than there is for cars.
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    So what's the issue here?
  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Fred_Garvin said:
    HarveyCanal said:
    The "safety" industry has become one of America's few profit centers left.

    It's pathetic.

    I agree on a number of levels, but why shouldn't bicyclists be following the same rules?

    Where I live, that's become an issue, and I see it constantly. I've twice witnessed cyclists get hit by cars in accidents that they themselves caused (one by running a red light, one by simply making a really dangerous manuever). I almost hit one myself when he ran a red and shot out just a few feet in front of me... if I hadn't seen him ahead of time and anticipated that he wasn't going to stop, he would have been hit.

    There really isn't any more of an excuse for bikes to be speeding through a school zone than there is for cars.

    Bikes don't pose the same degree of deadly threat as do cars. And most bicycles, even down hills, never surpass 30 mph. Ticketing bikes for speeding is just overkill. I'm so sick of preventative measures. Punish when shit goes bad...not in anticipation of something going bad, when in fact nothing has yet gone bad but some abstract rule in a book being broken. Even if it's a school zone, it's still a street with cars and bikes on it. The onus should be on the pedestrian to not jump out into the street in front of vehicles going either 20 mph or 30 mph. I would think that we, including school children, aren't so dumb that we can't handle it without police intervention.
  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    So what's the issue here?

    Unbridled expansion of the police state.
  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,391 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    Fred_Garvin said:
    HarveyCanal said:
    The "safety" industry has become one of America's few profit centers left.

    It's pathetic.

    I agree on a number of levels, but why shouldn't bicyclists be following the same rules?

    Where I live, that's become an issue, and I see it constantly. I've twice witnessed cyclists get hit by cars in accidents that they themselves caused (one by running a red light, one by simply making a really dangerous manuever). I almost hit one myself when he ran a red and shot out just a few feet in front of me... if I hadn't seen him ahead of time and anticipated that he wasn't going to stop, he would have been hit.

    There really isn't any more of an excuse for bikes to be speeding through a school zone than there is for cars.

    Bikes don't pose the same degree of deadly threat as do cars. And most bicycles, even down hills, never surpass 30 mph. Ticketing bikes for speeding is just overkill. I'm so sick of preventative measures. Punish when shit goes bad...not in anticipation of something going bad, when in fact nothing has yet gone bad but some abstract rule in a book being broken. Even if it's a school zone, it's still a street with cars and bikes on it. The onus should be on the pedestrian to not jump out into the street in front of vehicles going either 20 mph or 30 mph. I would think that we, including school children, aren't so dumb that we can't handle it without police intervention.

    Speeding tickets to cyclists seems crazy to me but when walking my kids to school it's the pushbikes we really have to watch out for. They don't stop at lights or crossings, you can't hear them coming and, worse still, their fashion sense is atrocious.
  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    On a general street, I'd say this is excessive, but during school hours near an elementary school it's appropriate. Little kids aren't frogger and don't have the skills to avoid a fast bike. They'll actually walk right into it because they have no prior knowledge of a world where adults go fast on bikes and ride directly into them.

    The bikers, no matter how skilled, can't count on their skills to avoid a kid who walks right in front of them. And, a bike is definitely less deadly than a fast car, but could no doubt kill a little kid when going 20 mph. Just look at that girl who was tased in the other thread, she's brain dead from a low speed fall.
  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Controller_7 said:
    On a general street, I'd say this is excessive, but during school hours near an elementary school it's appropriate. Little kids aren't frogger and don't have the skills to avoid a fast bike. They'll actually walk right into it because they have no prior knowledge of a world where adults go fast on bikes and ride directly into them.

    The bikers, no matter how skilled, can't count on their skills to avoid a kid who walks right in front of them. And, a bike is definitely less deadly than a fast car, but could no doubt kill a little kid when going 20 mph. Just look at that girl who was tased in the other thread, she's brain dead from a low speed fall.

    That's what crosswalks with crossing guards are for.

    No police needed. Go deal with real criminals already.
  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    Bicyclists demand to be treated as legitimate vehicles on the road, except when they want to completely disregard traffic laws. You want me to share the road with you bro, you need to stop at that stoplight too.
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    DB_Cooper said:
    Bicyclists demand to be treated as legitimate vehicles on the road, except when they want to completely disregard traffic laws. You want me to share the road with you bro, you need to stop at that stoplight too.

    As a cyclist, pedestrian, motorist and user of public transportation, I agree with this.
    There are times and places where road rules need to be modified to recognize the difference between bikes and cars.
    But bikes need to obey stop lights and school crossings. imo.
  • rootlesscosmorootlesscosmo 12,848 Posts
    DB_Cooper said:
    Bicyclists demand to be treated as legitimate vehicles on the road, except when they want to completely disregard traffic laws. You want me to share the road with you bro, you need to stop at that stoplight too.

    THIS.

    cyclists want to be treated as cars (take up whole lanes, etc.) only when it suits them.

    I'm not mad at bike dudes getting ticketed for running reds and stop signs.

    BTW I ride my bike to-and-from work everyday.
  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,905 Posts
    DB_Cooper said:
    Bicyclists demand to be treated as legitimate vehicles on the road, except when they want to completely disregard traffic laws. You want me to share the road with you bro, you need to stop at that stoplight too.


    It's the world we live in. Many people don't want to follow basic rules. Not drivers, not people on bikes and most of all not pedestrians.

    I'm constantly amazed at the amount of people I witness everyday who are walking and don't care until they are in an incident.

    Just last night I was walking and notice this guy who passes me on the sidewalk in a motorized wheelchair. He was just blowing through crosswalks when he wasn't suppose to. He even cursed out some women trying to drive through when she had the right of way.
  • ElectrodeElectrode Los Angeles 3,134 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    The "safety" industry has become one of America's few profit centers left.

    It's pathetic.

    I agree. It's all about revenue. Red light cameras, especially...coming to an intersection near you if they're not there already. Going off topic here, but thankfully, Los Angeles had the sense to stop that $500 fine nonsense...for now. Not thankfully, though, I got lit up by one of those things in West Hollywood (one of the more wealthier and supposedly freedom-loving areas of L.A., in addition to Beverly Hills, that still has a red light program up and running) for failing to run a yellow light in time at midnight with no pedestrians or cars around. I was told to ignore the ticket and not pay the fine, but I heard that they go after you aggressively if you do so - regardless of the legality of these cameras and the fact that these cities do not need the damn money. I can probably get it dismissed eventually with some extension and showing up to court right before the holidays with some non-guilty plea trickery, but it's the principle of the damn thing. "Cool story, bro."
  • The_Hook_UpThe_Hook_Up 8,182 Posts
    Bike, skateboard, roller skates, whatever...if you a run red light, fuck you. Running red lights is just arrogant and stupid. Red light accidents are usually the most devastating and fatal. No reason for it. I don't care for your excuse. Increasing police presence at dangerous intersections and school zones is ok by me. I don't feel like my freedom or liberties are being trampled on because the fuzz is looking to bust red light runners and dickheads flying through a school zone. Infowars will tell you that giving a ticket to a cyclist is a slippery slope to us being thrown into fema camps, but Alex Jones is a delusional future stroke victim, nothing else.
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    The town I live in spent big bucks creating bicycle lanes....because of them I can no longer park on the street in front of my home.

    Every Saturday morning there are literally 100's of bicyclists riding in the street outside the designated bicycle lanes.

    They should be considered fair game.
  • Fred_GarvinFred_Garvin The land of wind and ghosts 337 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    Bikes don't pose the same degree of deadly threat as do cars.
    Obviously, but they do pose a degree of threat. It's not like people haven't been injured and (albeit rarely) killed from being struck by bikes. Any object going that fast poses some danger. Hell, an apple going 25mph would hurt.

    HarveyCanal said:
    The onus should be on the pedestrian to not jump out into the street in front of vehicles going either 20 mph or 30 mph. I would think that we, including school children, aren't so dumb that we can't handle it without police intervention.

    So I actually agree on police overkill, but it seems fair to say that this is a legitimate safety issue. I don't really understand the idea of saying the onus is on pedestrians... this implies that drivers/riders are all responsible, safety-minded people, and the only way an accident could happen is if the pedestrian caused it.

    It really doesn't seem like that big a deal to ask people to slow down a little when they pass through a child-heavy area.. and we all know that there is a certain percentage of people who won't follow a rule just because you ask them to, or even because it's the right thing to do.

    The red light camera issue is totally different, partly because it's being driven by private companies who sell said equipment. They're unnecessary, ridiculous, and in at least a few places have been said to increase the number of accidents.
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Fred_Garvin said:
    .

    The red light camera issue is totally different, partly because it's being driven by private companies who sell said equipment. They're unnecessary, ridiculous, and in at least a few places have been said to increase the number of accidents.

    I received one of these tickets about a year ago and will not pay it. About 3 months ago I began to get calls from a legal firm trying to collect and I flat out told them I was not going to pay unless they could produce a copy of my signature on the ticket. They informed me that the state could prevent me from registering my vehicle until I paid. A couple of weeks later I registered my vehicle with no problems. They call me just about every day and I answer the phone and simply say the number of times they have called ("25", "26", etc.) and hang up....when they reach 75 I'll ask them if 75 calls was worth trying to get my $75.00. I have been told they have no real legal recourse if they can't intimidate me into paying....I guess I'm going to find out if that's true or not.
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    What is the problem with red lights cameras?
    You get caught?

    Certainly people who think the government monitoring our electronic communication is fine don't think that red light cameras are an intrusion.

    b/w

    Can't pay the fine, don't do the crime.
  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    The_Hook_Up said:
    Bike, skateboard, roller skates, whatever...if you a run red light, fuck you. Running red lights is just arrogant and stupid. Red light accidents are usually the most devastating and fatal. No reason for it. I don't care for your excuse. Increasing police presence at dangerous intersections and school zones is ok by me. I don't feel like my freedom or liberties are being trampled on because the fuzz is looking to bust red light runners and dickheads flying through a school zone. Infowars will tell you that giving a ticket to a cyclist is a slippery slope to us being thrown into fema camps, but Alex Jones is a delusional future stroke victim, nothing else.

    WTF?
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    What is the problem with red lights cameras?
    You get caught?

    Certainly people who think the government monitoring our electronic communication is fine don't think that red light cameras are an intrusion.

    b/w

    Can't pay the fine, don't do the crime.

    I'm ready to face any ultimate consequence they bring my way.....my crime is not paying the fine.

    b/w

    This particular town shortened the yellow light interval to help pay for Jerryworld.
  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,905 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    Fred_Garvin said:
    .

    The red light camera issue is totally different, partly because it's being driven by private companies who sell said equipment. They're unnecessary, ridiculous, and in at least a few places have been said to increase the number of accidents.

    I received one of these tickets about a year ago and will not pay it. About 3 months ago I began to get calls from a legal firm trying to collect and I flat out told them I was not going to pay unless they could produce a copy of my signature on the ticket. They informed me that the state could prevent me from registering my vehicle until I paid. A couple of weeks later I registered my vehicle with no problems. They call me just about every day and I answer the phone and simply say the number of times they have called ("25", "26", etc.) and hang up....when they reach 75 I'll ask them if 75 calls was worth trying to get my $75.00. I have been told they have no real legal recourse if they can't intimidate me into paying....I guess I'm going to find out if that's true or not.

    I've been told by a cop (Take this with a grain of salt since laws are all different from state to state). That one of the ways it could effect you is your credit rating. Not saying you personally need to be concerned. But others might.
  • BallzDeepBallzDeep 612 Posts
    DOR said:

    I've been told by a cop (Take this with a grain of salt since laws are all different from state to state). That one of the ways it could effect you is your credit rating.

    Haha.
    Next they will be saying it'll go on your 'permanent record'.
  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,905 Posts
    BallzDeep said:
    DOR said:

    I've been told by a cop (Take this with a grain of salt since laws are all different from state to state). That one of the ways it could effect you is your credit rating.

    Haha.
    Next they will be saying it'll go on your 'permanent record'.

    It's not the police doing anything. It's collections agencies. They will put an account into collections and put a mark on your credit. It happened to a friend of mine that refused to pay a couple of tickets on a private parking lot at a mall. It took him forever (about a year of back and fourth) to get the tickets off and for them to remove the mark on his credit.


    The cop I mentioned above was talking on speed cams.
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    BallzDeep said:
    DOR said:

    I've been told by a cop (Take this with a grain of salt since laws are all different from state to state). That one of the ways it could effect you is your credit rating.

    Haha.
    Next they will be saying it'll go on your 'permanent record'.

    In NY (and a lot of other states, I think) it's the same as though you did it in your car and can be points on your license. For this reason you should never show a cop your license as ID if you get a ticket on your bike.
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