Unfortunately the relationship between the late rocker and the hip-hop collective was less than amiable.
Back in 2011, Quest member Phife Dawg claimed that Reed was the only one profiting from the success of the ???Can I Kick It???? sample.
???That was on our first album [People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm] and the sample is Lou Reed. F**k Lou Reed, man! F**k him. Because we didn???t see no money from that f**kin??? record yet. Really. Here???s what happened ??? and I take back saying ???F**k Lou Reed,??? because Lou Reed has every right to say ???Give me my motherf**king money,?????? he told an audience in the UK. ???So Lou Reed could have easily said, ???Oh yeah, a rap group use my sh*t? Alright.??? No. Anita Baker don???t let nobody use her sh*t, period. [???] So Lou Reed, instead of saying no altogether, he was like, ???Yeah, nice! Give me the motherf**king money.??? Like Smokey in Friday.???
Nothing there amounts to Herm being "not far off."
And Harvey calling Reed a hack is hilarious. I'll bet Harvey has more koala bears living in his bathroom than he has Lou Reed albums.
Don't check out "I Wanna Be Black," Harvey, you might faint and damage your tinfoil hat.
For what it's worth, I definitely remember Lou discussing in interviews both in print and on tv the fact that "Walk On The Wild Side" had been sampled in "Wildside," the then-happening hit by your man Marky Mark. It was obviously a point of pride with him, and he seemed to be enjoying that his music was still, you know "out there in the streets," and was being given some new relevance by being referenced in rap (or, you know, ???rap???).
I have no recollection of hearing him say anything--positive or negative--about the Tribe Called Quest song a year or two earlier, but in the interviews he was giving in ???91, he clearly thought rap had a lot of merit, and was not at all on some ???rap ain???t music??? shit.
The worst worst-case scenario I can honestly conceive of here is that Lou had an attitude similar to that of Bob James, who, while not dismissive of rap, has been prickly--and vocal--about particular usages (e.g., I remember Bob explaining that he liked Ghostface???s ???Daytona 500??? because of the way the ???Nautilus??? sample was flipped to give it a little menacing edge, but that he refused clearance to Souls Of Mischief???s ???Cab Fare??? because he felt that the sped-up sample made his composition sound ???cartoonish???).
In the unlikely event that Lou did in fact diss the Tribe record (which I do not remember at all, and I was paying pretty close attention to all that shit back then) while smiling upon the Marky Mark record (which I remember with somewhat embarassing clarity), my feeling is that either:
a) Lou was okay with hearing his decades-old song of street reportage being used as a backdrop for a modern-day version of same (albeit, a clunky, reheated version), but less okay with it being used as a backdrop for party rhymes.
or
b) Mark cleared the sample beforehand and paid Lou up front, where Tribe did not.
If there was truly some bullshit over all this--which, again, I really doubt--I haven???t seen or heard anything that makes me believe it would have had anything to do with race or the overall validity of rap music.
Unfortunately the relationship between the late rocker and the hip-hop collective was less than amiable.
Back in 2011, Quest member Phife Dawg claimed that Reed was the only one profiting from the success of the ???Can I Kick It???? sample.
???That was on our first album [People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm] and the sample is Lou Reed. F**k Lou Reed, man! F**k him. Because we didn???t see no money from that f**kin??? record yet. Really. Here???s what happened ??? and I take back saying ???F**k Lou Reed,??? because Lou Reed has every right to say ???Give me my motherf**king money,?????? he told an audience in the UK. ???So Lou Reed could have easily said, ???Oh yeah, a rap group use my sh*t? Alright.??? No. Anita Baker don???t let nobody use her sh*t, period. [???] So Lou Reed, instead of saying no altogether, he was like, ???Yeah, nice! Give me the motherf**king money.??? Like Smokey in Friday.???
And how does any of this equate to Lou Reed being racist? It doesn't, unless wanting to be paid for your music being sampled is racist.
And in Harv's world DJ Screw is a genius and Lou Reed a hack? OK.....
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Not sure Tribe would have cleared it upfront. People weren't really doing that as a matter of routine back then. It's possible that it wasn't on Lou's radar until it blew up, but even that seems a little unlikely. I have a clear recollection of an NME interview with him from around '83/84, possibly when New Sensations was out and I Love You Suzanne was a hit, and in it he was waxing enthusiastically (by his standards) about then-current rap, even specifically mentioning a few things like CD III's Get Tough, an early Howie Tee production on Prelude. It makes sense on one level, him being Downtown as fuck before Downtown was even a thing, but nevertheless I do remember thinking how cool it was that he was still so plugged-in.
Yeah I mean.... I don't give a shit what Lou Reed thought about rap. Dude was a bonafide genius who changed the course of music, he was more talented, influential, cooler and tougher than 85% of all rappers ever.
I like Lou Reed and all, but...
Rappers, DJs and producers in the 80s created a whole new style of music.
Lou Reed was influential in furthering an already well established form of music.
b/w
Lou Reed was more talented, influential, cooler and tougher than 99.% of all rappers ever.
Have all you all never been in a room with an open mic?
Yeah I mean.... I don't give a shit what Lou Reed thought about rap. Dude was a bonafide genius who changed the course of music, he was more talented, influential, cooler and tougher than 85% of all rappers ever.
I like Lou Reed and all, but...
Rappers, DJs and producers in the 80s created a whole new style of music.
Lou Reed was influential in furthering an already well established form of music.
b/w
Lou Reed was more talented, influential, cooler and tougher than 99.% of all rappers ever.
Have all you all never been in a room with an open mic?
This is dumb even by LazyWolf standards.
Rap wasn't created in the 80s, and wasn't "a whole new style of music." It had obvious antecedents and only an insipid imbecile would claim otherwise.
Reed himself knew how stupid that kind of talk was. Plenty of people called him an asshole, but he was never an imbecile. Let us now praise famous death dwarves.
Yeah I mean.... I don't give a shit what Lou Reed thought about rap. Dude was a bonafide genius who changed the course of music, he was more talented, influential, cooler and tougher than 85% of all rappers ever.
My original question was about racist remarks, not whether or not he hated rap. R.I.F.
Beg pardon - I was confusing your post here with your facebook posts where The_Non suggested that Reed was a "rap isn't music" guy. Which you're kind of running with here, no? The point is that whether he said that, or something equally dismissive of ATCQ, or whether such a sentiment renders one racist, or not, seems silly. I don't need to affirm the state of the heart of every musician I enjoy, or every one that creates something of value. Being a good-hearted person is not a qualifier of great music or even great men. The list of morally indefensible rap music that both you and I enjoy is long indeed. I'm not tossing out my Ice Cube tapes any time soon.
Was Lou Reed racist? Who gives a shit? I doubt Reed would have. This is a discussion to be had by people who say "n-word".
Well, that's pretty reasonable and fair. There is no identifiable basis for saying the guy made racist remarks but let's put it out there anyway and taint perceptions.
Reading this, it seems like this would have been a perfect opportunity to air out any and all issues with Lou Reed, given he was interfering with the group's paper...but alas...
Rap wasn't created in the 80s, and wasn't "a whole new style of music." It had obvious antecedents and only an insipid imbecile would claim otherwise.
.
I'm bowing out now. My original, sincere and MISINFORMED question was regarding the racist aspect, which is important to me and doesn't die with the artist, no matter how great they may be. I don't give a damn who likes or doesn't rap music. My question has somehow turned to the thread focusing on that aspect.
R.I.P. Lou Reed. Oh wait...apparently that's not the right thing to say either. Yeeeeesh.
Well, that's pretty reasonable and fair. There is no identifiable basis for saying the guy made racist remarks but let's put it out there anyway and taint perceptions.
Reading this, it seems like this would have been a perfect opportunity to air out any and all issues with Lou Reed, given he was interfering with the group's paper...but alas...
R.I.P. Lou Reed. Oh wait...apparently that's not the right thing to say either. Yeeeeesh.
Oh please, that was in jest.
I was showing he was a pissy guy and even in death with that quote could piss people off, but that doesn't have anything to do with his body of work. It's a shame that people reading this will think that this made up "ATCQ racist comments" thing ever happened. Take that to TMZ pleez
R.I.P. Lou Reed. Oh wait...apparently that's not the right thing to say either. Yeeeeesh.
Oh please, that was in jest.
I was showing he was a pissy guy and even in death with that quote could piss people off, but that doesn't have anything to do with his body of work. It's a shame that people reading this will think that this made up "ATCQ racist comments" thing ever happened. Take that to TMZ pleez
I hear you and agree, but I doubt anyone living in the triple-digit IQ realm will think there's anything to it for a minute. And no one familiar & friendly with Reed's life and work will do anything but piss on that sort of nonsense.
"
???LOU REED, 71??? by Byron Coley
LOU REED, 71
the easiest heroes are consistent
but the ones who really shape us
are random maniacs
whose work we stumble across
at times in our lives
we desperately need misdirection
and so it was i met the music of lou reed
through a guy named buzz
who???d bought the first velvets album
but didn???t like it
just the way he hadn???t liked the first mothers album
a month earlier
which meant i got each for a buck
there is literally no way to describe
the way that record hit me
i was a ten year old seventh grader
and the first time i played the album
i was transformed into someone else
someone who knew more than my contemporaries
even if i couldn???t quite shake it all out
lou and john and sterling and moe
gave me much more info
than i could understand
but they did it in a way
i loved so intuitively
with music exploding in such amazing directions
it made sense on a molecular level
and through the years i followed lou
good scenes, bad scenes, he put us through it all
but we kinda paid attention
because, after all
this motherfucker
this lou reed
this electroshocked cocksucking bastard
who put out many more lousy records than good
was the father of everyone i???ve ever known
and i never thought he???d die
and i really miss him
Comments
Nothing there amounts to Herm being "not far off."
And Harvey calling Reed a hack is hilarious. I'll bet Harvey has more koala bears living in his bathroom than he has Lou Reed albums.
Don't check out "I Wanna Be Black," Harvey, you might faint and damage your tinfoil hat.
doesn't mean his music sucks.
I have no recollection of hearing him say anything--positive or negative--about the Tribe Called Quest song a year or two earlier, but in the interviews he was giving in ???91, he clearly thought rap had a lot of merit, and was not at all on some ???rap ain???t music??? shit.
The worst worst-case scenario I can honestly conceive of here is that Lou had an attitude similar to that of Bob James, who, while not dismissive of rap, has been prickly--and vocal--about particular usages (e.g., I remember Bob explaining that he liked Ghostface???s ???Daytona 500??? because of the way the ???Nautilus??? sample was flipped to give it a little menacing edge, but that he refused clearance to Souls Of Mischief???s ???Cab Fare??? because he felt that the sped-up sample made his composition sound ???cartoonish???).
In the unlikely event that Lou did in fact diss the Tribe record (which I do not remember at all, and I was paying pretty close attention to all that shit back then) while smiling upon the Marky Mark record (which I remember with somewhat embarassing clarity), my feeling is that either:
a) Lou was okay with hearing his decades-old song of street reportage being used as a backdrop for a modern-day version of same (albeit, a clunky, reheated version), but less okay with it being used as a backdrop for party rhymes.
or
b) Mark cleared the sample beforehand and paid Lou up front, where Tribe did not.
If there was truly some bullshit over all this--which, again, I really doubt--I haven???t seen or heard anything that makes me believe it would have had anything to do with race or the overall validity of rap music.
And how does any of this equate to Lou Reed being racist? It doesn't, unless wanting to be paid for your music being sampled is racist.
And in Harv's world DJ Screw is a genius and Lou Reed a hack? OK.....
They're both geniuses.
I like Lou Reed and all, but...
Rappers, DJs and producers in the 80s created a whole new style of music.
Lou Reed was influential in furthering an already well established form of music.
b/w
Lou Reed was more talented, influential, cooler and tougher than 99.% of all rappers ever.
Have all you all never been in a room with an open mic?
This is dumb even by LazyWolf standards.
Rap wasn't created in the 80s, and wasn't "a whole new style of music." It had obvious antecedents and only an insipid imbecile would claim otherwise.
Reed himself knew how stupid that kind of talk was. Plenty of people called him an asshole, but he was never an imbecile. Let us now praise famous death dwarves.
Beg pardon - I was confusing your post here with your facebook posts where The_Non suggested that Reed was a "rap isn't music" guy. Which you're kind of running with here, no? The point is that whether he said that, or something equally dismissive of ATCQ, or whether such a sentiment renders one racist, or not, seems silly. I don't need to affirm the state of the heart of every musician I enjoy, or every one that creates something of value. Being a good-hearted person is not a qualifier of great music or even great men. The list of morally indefensible rap music that both you and I enjoy is long indeed. I'm not tossing out my Ice Cube tapes any time soon.
Was Lou Reed racist? Who gives a shit? I doubt Reed would have. This is a discussion to be had by people who say "n-word".
I understand what you're saying but he does the same thing in so many posts that when it comes to righteous indignation from LO I don't buy it.
lol ok dude.
R.I.P. Lou Reed. Oh wait...apparently that's not the right thing to say either. Yeeeeesh.
Things are getting confused!
My comment was about Herm putting it out there that Reed said racist things even though there was no basis for it and he admitted as much.
I don't think it's reasonable or fair lol
i sure do hope you guys are around to argue semantics and prose in memory of me.
Waaaaambulance.
just shame.
Oh please, that was in jest.
I was showing he was a pissy guy and even in death with that quote could piss people off, but that doesn't have anything to do with his body of work. It's a shame that people reading this will think that this made up "ATCQ racist comments" thing ever happened. Take that to TMZ pleez
I hear you and agree, but I doubt anyone living in the triple-digit IQ realm will think there's anything to it for a minute. And no one familiar & friendly with Reed's life and work will do anything but piss on that sort of nonsense.
"
???LOU REED, 71??? by Byron Coley
LOU REED, 71
the easiest heroes are consistent
but the ones who really shape us
are random maniacs
whose work we stumble across
at times in our lives
we desperately need misdirection
and so it was i met the music of lou reed
through a guy named buzz
who???d bought the first velvets album
but didn???t like it
just the way he hadn???t liked the first mothers album
a month earlier
which meant i got each for a buck
there is literally no way to describe
the way that record hit me
i was a ten year old seventh grader
and the first time i played the album
i was transformed into someone else
someone who knew more than my contemporaries
even if i couldn???t quite shake it all out
lou and john and sterling and moe
gave me much more info
than i could understand
but they did it in a way
i loved so intuitively
with music exploding in such amazing directions
it made sense on a molecular level
and through the years i followed lou
good scenes, bad scenes, he put us through it all
but we kinda paid attention
because, after all
this motherfucker
this lou reed
this electroshocked cocksucking bastard
who put out many more lousy records than good
was the father of everyone i???ve ever known
and i never thought he???d die
and i really miss him
more than i ever thought i would
??? Byron Coley
"