Every single one of these threads ends up in a shitty ass stupid ass bumbling ass clusterfuck, mostly due to smart dumb cats entertaining the nonsense of a time-honored troll.
Every single one of these threads ends up in a shitty ass stupid ass bumbling ass clusterfuck, mostly due to smart dumb cats entertaining the nonsense of a time-honored troll.
Cynicism's all I can manage.
Damn you're right.
Apologies.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I don't know what's funnier, someone saying that Obama actually doesn't have the power to close Gitmo, or the same person implying that the US Senate represents of the wishes of American people. Woohoo, either way, thanks for the high comedy.
I don't know what's funnier, someone saying that Obama actually doesn't have the power to close Gitmo, or the same person implying that the US Senate represents of the wishes of American people. Woohoo, either way, thanks for the high comedy.
Gee, Harvey, how do explain the fact that Obama signed the order closing GITMO, the Senate voted 90-6 to block it, and GITMO is still open then?
Can't wait to hear this...
Maybe you want Obama to pay for it's closing out of his own pocket, then invite everyone there to live with him?
A majority of American voters wants to keep the military prison at Guantanamo Bay open, and many feel it has made the United States safer.
A new Fox News poll finds 63 percent of voters want to keep the detention facility known as Gitmo open, while 28 percent say it should be closed and the terrorist suspects moved to federal prisons in the United States
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
One, Obama gets around the Senate and the Constitution all the time for other things he wants done.
Two, being representative doesn't mean just following what a stupid least common denominator poll states.
One, Obama gets around the Senate and the Constitution all the time for other things he wants done.
Two, being representative doesn't mean just following what a stupid least common denominator poll states.
1) So, you are advocating he violate the law and Constitution. Great. Who's going to pay for it to close, Harvey, and where are they going to go?
2) So, you blame Obama for the Senate being cowards?
Man, your hatred for Obama is insane.
ps. Let me add to #1, that none of Obama's end arounds from Congress (I'm presuming mean the EO to not deport children of illegal immigrants that are in school aka the DREAMERS, because that's the only one I can think of) has required money from Congress.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Bon Vivant said:
HarveyCanal said:
One, Obama gets around the Senate and the Constitution all the time for other things he wants done.
Two, being representative doesn't mean just following what a stupid least common denominator poll states.
1) So, you are advocating he violate the law and Constitution. Great. Who's going to pay for it to close, Harvey, and where are they going to go?
2) So, you blame Obama for the Senate being cowards?
Man, your hatred for Obama is insane.
Nope, your unyielding allegiance to Obama is what is insane.
But that what bot you has been programmed to do, I suppose.
Dear SoulStrut, I apologize. I thought the talk would actually be more about Mos Def given all the energy being spent over in the Egypt thread.
I am part of the problem.
Your e-friend,
bassie
"Who pays for GITMOs closing" and "Where do they go"?
A. It costs more to keep them in situ, surely?
B. back to where you took them from
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
bassie said:
Dear SoulStrut, I apologize. I thought the talk would actually be more about Mos Def given all the energy being spent over in the Egypt thread.
I am part of the problem.
Your e-friend,
bassie
"Who pays for GITMOs closing" and "Where do they go"?
A. It costs more to keep them in situ, surely?
B. back to where you took them from
Thank you for answering.
A. That's not really an answer to "Who pays for it?" It's expensive has hell to keep them in GITMO for sure. Maybe the economic argument should be made more forcefully.
B. Those countries don't want them.
Look, I want GITMO closed as well. Its just not that easy, unfortunately.
procedure aside, isn't GITMO full of terrorists and wrong doers alike? I know they had their fair share of bad press and wrongfully imprisoned some people, but whats the ratio for actual terrorist to wrongfully imprisoned guy? Oh dear the guy who firebombed a library in gods name is on a hunger strike.. whatever shall we do?
Reading the descriptions of the force-feeding of the rebellious inmates left me disgusted and upset. Upset for the ensigns that through bad luck or poor ASVAB scores were left with the undesirable work of prison custodian whose job it is to carry out the illogical protocol of a government who wants not to tread on the wrong side of conventions. Let them starve themselves, let them die. The only reason not to is because of some bureaucratic and legal nonsense or maybe, just maybe, there might be some more intelligence to be gleaned. The inmates, reduced to sub-humans at least in their minds, strike back in the only way that they can. By refusing to eat. This is not suicide. This is a message to the media. Because if they really wanted to die then that could be accomplished much more swiftly and thoroughly. Cowards that they are and wanting to make their plight more widely known, they choose this strategy by after at least the first time knowing that it has no consequences in terms of mortality. Not to make light of the act, it is not a pleasant way to dine, but anything that one does in protest that has no consequences, one will continue indefinitely.
On the one hand you have a prisoner, imprisoned indefinitely, with no other real options than suicide or feigned suicide, and on the other hand you have an imprisoning body, the defense department, that must for disclosure purposes keep on hand a legal department that tells them well you can't let them die on your watch, especially if you're not the one directly responsible for inflicting death. So you must do everything or in this case anything to keep them alive, unless some rising idealist lawyer for the ACLU gets hold of this and pursues it in the American court system. Cover your bases. The long forgotten voices and faces of the victims of terror remain silent and blind to the ongoing sympathetic underrating of evil to the inmates at Guantanomo Bay. What a strange inversion this is. This is religious fanaticism vs the age of reason. Barbarism vs Enlightenment.
Bring on the naysayers. The ones who delight in anything decreed by a governing body especially ones to the left of center, except of course should it come from the government that they helped to elect, the one that continues policies it didn't back to get elected in the first place. Once in power and the shroud of innocence is lifted, the reality of the chaotic world we live in emerges, and the prior thoughts and policies begin to make a little more sense. Oh but we can't just come out and say it. But we will quietly continue it. Because it keeps us safe and it was the right thing to do. Criticism is good for its own sake and a necessary counterweight in a democratic society, but when the dirty work of keeping us safe is held under the microscope of the journalistic world where any and all gets examined and exploited by college-juvenile-elitists and twisted into a portrayal of conspiracy-inducing rhetoric, we're left with the sad state of American journalism we have today.
It is secularism vs religo-fanatics. Fact vs faith. Realism vs idealism. And it seems to me to be the idealists are out in full force lately in a cyclical parade that I unfortunately am here to witness before it inevitably gives way to reason. It's not pretty, it's not always clear-cut and easy, but truth and reality will remain by the sheer force and weight of their ideas. To conclude, force-feeding is torture for giver and receipient, stop it. Let them die slowly if they want. We've gotten all that we could by now. Our dignity comes not from the climate of our imprisoned but from the memory of and the vicarious voice given by us to the victims of Terror, the murdered greater community of people who found themselves at the wrong place at the wrong time. You are not silent and you are not forgotten. Those of us who wake soundly, daily, will never be muffled or discouraged and will always stand up for the departed. It is our duty never to forget what happened and never to forgive those that perpetuated these horrendous acts.
Cowards that they are and wanting to make their plight more widely known, they choose this strategy by after at least the first time knowing that it has no consequences in terms of mortality. Not to make light of the act, it is not a pleasant way to dine, but anything that one does in protest that has no consequences, one will continue indefinitely.
Tell that to Bobby Sands. You're a mindless loser who has no conception of actual heroism or sacrifice.
You wouldn't last a week on a hunger strike started for any reason at all.
The reason this action should force Obama and the US to act is primal and basic. That grunting, ignorant pigs can't grasp that is on them.
Some of these men will die and their stories will get out and shame our country, because some of these men should never have been imprisoned in the first place.
That some sheltered assmunch like you calls them "cowards" is the very sickest sort of joke, since you would start crying if you went a day without salty snacks. Run that up your dancing flagpole.
If you could step outside your insular and boring mind and actually witness the sad and fearful thoughts that your own mind flings so wrecklessly on this board on innumerable topics that you've so far graciously escaped my scrutiny then you would see objectively the cowering apologist and future anal-hoster you will become in a political prison for the unfortunate and weak-minded. Not to side-step your criticism, but your focus on the wrongfully imprisoned is misplaced, in any human endeavor, there will always be mistakes because of, well, human-error. My quarrel is not with the prisoners, but with the prison. If you had read what I wrote then you would know that the power is being wrested from the authorities to the detained and then broadcast to the world in unfavorable terms for the fighters or moral right. Surely there are men there who are imprisoned wrongly. A minority if this fits into regular human practices. Surely though there are men that deserve to be there. They are all given lawyers, doctors, and means to plead their case, to be redeemed and returned to society if they so choose to be forthcoming. Many have. Many have been released. Documented.
I've recently debated someone on the weird but nonetheless continual occurence tried and convicted murderers seem to have of a cadre of women intent on marrying a man on death row. A man, whom the bride will never be ever to consummate the relationship, and to whom any skin contact would be very unlikely. And yet there is no shortage of crazy woman to fulfill this strange demand. I think this is where you fit in. The unlikely but yet strangely drawn to convicted man that Thymebomb warms to. A marriage made in the penitentiary but enjoyed on the internet to my and others delight. Please indulge us to this fact, Thymebomb, really prove your idealism by getting properly fucked by an inmate of the government you so hate and try to subvert whenever the occasion presents itself. The same government that protected you and your family while you slept, and educated you from birth.
Thymebomb, the wannabe prison bitch, the internet protester, the man no one wishes to be, I won't continue this rebuttal, it's too easy for any frequenter of SoulStrut. Reply all you want. Analyze this, analyze that. I'm done. At some point, people need not make further comment and that point has already come for you and me. Realize the more you rebut and reply the more you seem desparate and nostalgic. Thus I leave it for you to ruin yourself, douche-nozzle. Take it away, Thymebombed
Dear SoulStrut, I apologize. I thought the talk would actually be more about Mos Def given all the energy being spent over in the Egypt thread.
I am part of the problem.
Your e-friend,
bassie
Damn you and your ill-assumed notion that this forum could stay on topic and civil! Just kidding...I wanted to try and get the Strut's take on this too, but the last time I brought this dude up on the site...it ended up being pointed out and laughed at on waxidermy.
Without getting into the messy business of opinions on GITMO, how to properly treat prisoners of war, how to define a prisoner of war in the constantly evolving landscape of modern warfare, making good on Presidential promises and how to do so or not do so...ignoring all that and just looking at Mos' video, I'll say this...
I saw it as a performance...yes Mos was uncomfortable, yes I think he really cried (but I also think he intended/hoped he would and I think the crew knew that as well)...but also yes I think the response and dramatics were intended and yes I'm sure there was some safe word, obviously.
I don't think that the fact that it was a performance makes it a bad thing. He wants GITMO closed and he sees the treatment of the prisoners there as cruel; so he puts out propaganda that he hopes will support his desire.
It just seemed a bit too obvious in my opinion...it reminded me of Hitchens' waterboarding video but not done as well. Hitchens' video gave me the sense that Hitchens was genuinely curious to see how waterbaording felt...to see if it was as bad as people said it was. Hell, with the Hitchens video, you get the sense in the beginning that he almost thinks it won't be that bad at all. After he receives the waterboarding treatment he seems genuinely surprised and shocked at how miserable the whole thing was.
Mos' video gave me the distinct feeling that he had an agenda from the beginning; never mind the quick lil fashion shoot in the beginning. It was like some shitty torture porn; yes I know the actor is experiencing some legitimate discomfort but I also know it's a show; at the end of the day. The tears seemed manufactured, the rough handling of him by supporting crew seemed like a movie and the desired intent was pretty transparent throughout the whole performance.
If it gets a quarter of the people that watched it to lean towards Mos' opinion then I guess it's mission accomplished for him...
Comments
Cynicism's all I can manage.
Wait - now I'm a troll?
In my own house?! Sheeeeeeeeiiiiiiitttt....
Damn you're right.
Apologies.
Gee, Harvey, how do explain the fact that Obama signed the order closing GITMO, the Senate voted 90-6 to block it, and GITMO is still open then?
Can't wait to hear this...
Maybe you want Obama to pay for it's closing out of his own pocket, then invite everyone there to live with him?
This is the most recent poll I could find. It's from FOX, so take with a grain of salt.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/22/fox-news-poll-voters-say-want-guantanamo-bay-kept-open/
Published May 22, 2013
A majority of American voters wants to keep the military prison at Guantanamo Bay open, and many feel it has made the United States safer.
A new Fox News poll finds 63 percent of voters want to keep the detention facility known as Gitmo open, while 28 percent say it should be closed and the terrorist suspects moved to federal prisons in the United States
Two, being representative doesn't mean just following what a stupid least common denominator poll states.
1) So, you are advocating he violate the law and Constitution. Great. Who's going to pay for it to close, Harvey, and where are they going to go?
2) So, you blame Obama for the Senate being cowards?
Man, your hatred for Obama is insane.
ps. Let me add to #1, that none of Obama's end arounds from Congress (I'm presuming mean the EO to not deport children of illegal immigrants that are in school aka the DREAMERS, because that's the only one I can think of) has required money from Congress.
Nope, your unyielding allegiance to Obama is what is insane.
But that what bot you has been programmed to do, I suppose.
That's not an answer to the questions "Who pays for GITMOs closing" and "Where do they go".
Do you not have an answer to them?
Don't feel bad if you don't, since that's kind of the issue.
You ignorance of this issue and how the US government works is much more hilarious.
Perhaps, you have an answer to the questions I've posed to Harvey?
Didn't think so.
Just another guy with an opinion, but no ideas.
"Oh say can't you see......"
Teh lulz
"Who pays for GITMOs closing" and "Where do they go"?
I am part of the problem.
Your e-friend,
bassie
A. It costs more to keep them in situ, surely?
B. back to where you took them from
It's not your fault.
Thank you for answering.
A. That's not really an answer to "Who pays for it?" It's expensive has hell to keep them in GITMO for sure. Maybe the economic argument should be made more forcefully.
B. Those countries don't want them.
Look, I want GITMO closed as well. Its just not that easy, unfortunately.
On the one hand you have a prisoner, imprisoned indefinitely, with no other real options than suicide or feigned suicide, and on the other hand you have an imprisoning body, the defense department, that must for disclosure purposes keep on hand a legal department that tells them well you can't let them die on your watch, especially if you're not the one directly responsible for inflicting death. So you must do everything or in this case anything to keep them alive, unless some rising idealist lawyer for the ACLU gets hold of this and pursues it in the American court system. Cover your bases. The long forgotten voices and faces of the victims of terror remain silent and blind to the ongoing sympathetic underrating of evil to the inmates at Guantanomo Bay. What a strange inversion this is. This is religious fanaticism vs the age of reason. Barbarism vs Enlightenment.
Bring on the naysayers. The ones who delight in anything decreed by a governing body especially ones to the left of center, except of course should it come from the government that they helped to elect, the one that continues policies it didn't back to get elected in the first place. Once in power and the shroud of innocence is lifted, the reality of the chaotic world we live in emerges, and the prior thoughts and policies begin to make a little more sense. Oh but we can't just come out and say it. But we will quietly continue it. Because it keeps us safe and it was the right thing to do. Criticism is good for its own sake and a necessary counterweight in a democratic society, but when the dirty work of keeping us safe is held under the microscope of the journalistic world where any and all gets examined and exploited by college-juvenile-elitists and twisted into a portrayal of conspiracy-inducing rhetoric, we're left with the sad state of American journalism we have today.
It is secularism vs religo-fanatics. Fact vs faith. Realism vs idealism. And it seems to me to be the idealists are out in full force lately in a cyclical parade that I unfortunately am here to witness before it inevitably gives way to reason. It's not pretty, it's not always clear-cut and easy, but truth and reality will remain by the sheer force and weight of their ideas. To conclude, force-feeding is torture for giver and receipient, stop it. Let them die slowly if they want. We've gotten all that we could by now. Our dignity comes not from the climate of our imprisoned but from the memory of and the vicarious voice given by us to the victims of Terror, the murdered greater community of people who found themselves at the wrong place at the wrong time. You are not silent and you are not forgotten. Those of us who wake soundly, daily, will never be muffled or discouraged and will always stand up for the departed. It is our duty never to forget what happened and never to forgive those that perpetuated these horrendous acts.
If you could step outside your insular and boring mind and actually witness the sad and fearful thoughts that your own mind flings so wrecklessly on this board on innumerable topics that you've so far graciously escaped my scrutiny then you would see objectively the cowering apologist and future anal-hoster you will become in a political prison for the unfortunate and weak-minded. Not to side-step your criticism, but your focus on the wrongfully imprisoned is misplaced, in any human endeavor, there will always be mistakes because of, well, human-error. My quarrel is not with the prisoners, but with the prison. If you had read what I wrote then you would know that the power is being wrested from the authorities to the detained and then broadcast to the world in unfavorable terms for the fighters or moral right. Surely there are men there who are imprisoned wrongly. A minority if this fits into regular human practices. Surely though there are men that deserve to be there. They are all given lawyers, doctors, and means to plead their case, to be redeemed and returned to society if they so choose to be forthcoming. Many have. Many have been released. Documented.
I've recently debated someone on the weird but nonetheless continual occurence tried and convicted murderers seem to have of a cadre of women intent on marrying a man on death row. A man, whom the bride will never be ever to consummate the relationship, and to whom any skin contact would be very unlikely. And yet there is no shortage of crazy woman to fulfill this strange demand. I think this is where you fit in. The unlikely but yet strangely drawn to convicted man that Thymebomb warms to. A marriage made in the penitentiary but enjoyed on the internet to my and others delight. Please indulge us to this fact, Thymebomb, really prove your idealism by getting properly fucked by an inmate of the government you so hate and try to subvert whenever the occasion presents itself. The same government that protected you and your family while you slept, and educated you from birth.
Thymebomb, the wannabe prison bitch, the internet protester, the man no one wishes to be, I won't continue this rebuttal, it's too easy for any frequenter of SoulStrut. Reply all you want. Analyze this, analyze that. I'm done. At some point, people need not make further comment and that point has already come for you and me. Realize the more you rebut and reply the more you seem desparate and nostalgic. Thus I leave it for you to ruin yourself, douche-nozzle. Take it away, Thymebombed
You could stand inside my shoes
You???d know what a drag it is
To see you
Damn you and your ill-assumed notion that this forum could stay on topic and civil! Just kidding...I wanted to try and get the Strut's take on this too, but the last time I brought this dude up on the site...it ended up being pointed out and laughed at on waxidermy.
Without getting into the messy business of opinions on GITMO, how to properly treat prisoners of war, how to define a prisoner of war in the constantly evolving landscape of modern warfare, making good on Presidential promises and how to do so or not do so...ignoring all that and just looking at Mos' video, I'll say this...
I saw it as a performance...yes Mos was uncomfortable, yes I think he really cried (but I also think he intended/hoped he would and I think the crew knew that as well)...but also yes I think the response and dramatics were intended and yes I'm sure there was some safe word, obviously.
I don't think that the fact that it was a performance makes it a bad thing. He wants GITMO closed and he sees the treatment of the prisoners there as cruel; so he puts out propaganda that he hopes will support his desire.
It just seemed a bit too obvious in my opinion...it reminded me of Hitchens' waterboarding video but not done as well. Hitchens' video gave me the sense that Hitchens was genuinely curious to see how waterbaording felt...to see if it was as bad as people said it was. Hell, with the Hitchens video, you get the sense in the beginning that he almost thinks it won't be that bad at all. After he receives the waterboarding treatment he seems genuinely surprised and shocked at how miserable the whole thing was.
Mos' video gave me the distinct feeling that he had an agenda from the beginning; never mind the quick lil fashion shoot in the beginning. It was like some shitty torture porn; yes I know the actor is experiencing some legitimate discomfort but I also know it's a show; at the end of the day. The tears seemed manufactured, the rough handling of him by supporting crew seemed like a movie and the desired intent was pretty transparent throughout the whole performance.
If it gets a quarter of the people that watched it to lean towards Mos' opinion then I guess it's mission accomplished for him...
I just want the dude to make some good music.
do you have any friends bro?