This Whole War Powers Thing

volumenvolumen 2,532 Posts
edited May 2013 in Strut Central
I think Obama has actually moved father right than a lot of right wingers and it's scaring them which I find amusing.

9/11 happens, congress looks the other way when Bush goes to war illegally with false evidence and passes every patriot act/trample peoples rights law that Bush and the Military/FBI/CIA want. Meanwhile Bush and the DOD amass a pile of prisoners and torture them, many of which have yet to even have a trial after years of incarceration.

Now they are trying to say it's Obama going to far? He's basically just continuing what was started before him. No ones hands are clean here. It's wrong on both sides, but the reality is that conservatives are the ones that pushed for a lot of this stuff in the first place. The patriot act was being used to spy on people left and right in the US who were not even linked to terrorists. It seems republicans are concerned that the DOJ said every where could be a war zone so Obama can send troops anywhere with out congress. But, Bush started a war with out congressional approval. He abducted people and transported them through different countries while torturing them for information. He also sent troops to more than one country. What is Obama doing that's any different than the 8 years before him? The laws his using were written before he was even president.

I wish all the conservatives so concerned about Benghazi truth now would have spoke up when Bush was falsifying evidence to go to war.

  Comments


  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    basically what i read in this post is that if some asshole did some fucked up shit before my dude decided to become v2.0, it makes it easier for me to ride as a fanboy even though i denounced all that shit back then? what kind of fucked up logic is that? wrong is wrong is wrong; doesn't matter who is doing it or who is whining about it

  • Fred_GarvinFred_Garvin The land of wind and ghosts 337 Posts
    Volumen's post doesn't exactly read like fanboy material; what I got from it was that many of the folks currently shitting themselves over the crooked business Obama's either getting behind or allowing to happen, are the same one who were riding for President Bush to be able to do those things, and some of the laws/policies created during that time are the same ones in question now.

    I guess the moral is "be careful what you wish for".

    And as we all know, everything seems more acceptable if your team is doing it. It's harder than it looks to rise above that; my solution so far is to hate everybody.

    No matter which 'side' you approach the issue from, this nonsense has been going on long enough that it seems to have clouded our collective societal sense of what's right and what's wrong. That's where the real danger happens.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    Fred_Garvin said:
    Volumen's post doesn't exactly read like fanboy material; what I got from it was that many of the folks currently shitting themselves over the crooked business Obama's either getting behind or allowing to happen, are the same one who were riding for President Bush to be able to do those things, and some of the laws/policies created during that time are the same ones in question now.
    Both sides find it much easier to overlook things if the opposing side is "shitting themselves" over it which constitutes indirect support. Shit is like some high school girl fashion bullshit. See my IRS thread.

    And as we all know, everything seems more acceptable if your team is doing it. It's harder than it looks to rise above that; my solution so far is to hate everybody.
    100%

    No matter which 'side' you approach the issue from, this nonsense has been going on long enough that it seems to have clouded our collective societal sense of what's right and what's wrong. That's where the real danger happens.
    This type of shit only clouds your judgment if you approach it from a "side".

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    volumen said:
    I think Obama has actually moved father right than a lot of right wingers and it's scaring them which I find amusing.

    9/11 happens, congress looks the other way when Bush goes to war illegally with false evidence and passes every patriot act/trample peoples rights law that Bush and the Military/FBI/CIA want. Meanwhile Bush and the DOD amass a pile of prisoners and torture them, many of which have yet to even have a trial after years of incarceration.

    Now they are trying to say it's Obama going to far? He's basically just continuing what was started before him. No ones hands are clean here. It's wrong on both sides, but the reality is that conservatives are the ones that pushed for a lot of this stuff in the first place. The patriot act was being used to spy on people left and right in the US who were not even linked to terrorists. It seems republicans are concerned that the DOJ said every where could be a war zone so Obama can send troops anywhere with out congress. But, Bush started a war with out congressional approval. He abducted people and transported them through different countries while torturing them for information. He also sent troops to more than one country. What is Obama doing that's any different than the 8 years before him? The laws his using were written before he was even president.

    I wish all the conservatives so concerned about Benghazi truth now would have spoke up when Bush was falsifying evidence to go to war.

    ^^^Gayest post ever. Fucking evolve out of 2-party politics already. Sheesh.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    PatrickCrazy said:
    basically what i read in this post is that if some asshole did some fucked up shit before my dude decided to become v2.0, it makes it easier for me to ride as a fanboy even though i denounced all that shit back then? what kind of fucked up logic is that? wrong is wrong is wrong; doesn't matter who is doing it or who is whining about it

    The absolute weakest argument anyone can make to defend the current administration begins with the words..."But, Bush....."

    For years I have been posting here about "Horizontal Politics" and how both parties play us all by having us point fingers at the "other side",

    If you truly want this country to be better, work towards having YOUR "side" being honest and having integrity, then even if the other side doesn't we'll be 50% better off than we were before.

    And this is aimed at anyone who declares a "side", on both the left and the right.....no problem has ever been solved by pointing out there is a worse problem somewhere else.

  • Fred_GarvinFred_Garvin The land of wind and ghosts 337 Posts
    PatrickCrazy said:
    This type of shit only clouds your judgment if you approach it from a "side".
    Disagree; I think it's much more insidious than that. Regardless of what the issue du jour is (and whether you agree with it or not), the more we're exposed to it, the less we're shocked by it... it becomes more of a 'norm' or 'necessary evil', and the effort needed to separate ourselves from it becomes that much greater.

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    PatrickCrazy said:
    basically what i read in this post is that if some asshole did some fucked up shit before my dude decided to become v2.0, it makes it easier for me to ride as a fanboy even though i denounced all that shit back then? what kind of fucked up logic is that? wrong is wrong is wrong; doesn't matter who is doing it or who is whining about it

    The absolute weakest argument anyone can make to defend the current administration begins with the words..."But, Bush.....".

    Few people make that argument to defend the current administration.

    However, the "But, Bush" argument is made on the regular to point out the fact that those loudly and forcefully complaining about what Obama does, was either overtly or tacitly approved when it occurred under the Bush administration. And that argument should be made.

    Those who can't see the difference in these two separate points are being intellectually lazy and dishonest, IMO.

    Hypocrisy shouldn't get a pass.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    Bon Vivant said:
    Rockadelic said:
    PatrickCrazy said:
    basically what i read in this post is that if some asshole did some fucked up shit before my dude decided to become v2.0, it makes it easier for me to ride as a fanboy even though i denounced all that shit back then? what kind of fucked up logic is that? wrong is wrong is wrong; doesn't matter who is doing it or who is whining about it

    The absolute weakest argument anyone can make to defend the current administration begins with the words..."But, Bush.....".

    Few people make that argument to defend the current administration.

    However, the "But, Bush" argument is made on the regular to point out the fact that those loudly and forcefully complaining about what Obama does, was either overtly or tacitly approved when it occurred under the Bush administration.

    This would be a little more convincing if some proof of this 'tacit approval' accompanied the argument. In my case, you won't find any because it never happened.

    Assuming that everybody who criticizes Obama gave a rubber stamp to everything W did is a bit of a stretch, to put it mildly.

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    Bon Vivant said:
    Rockadelic said:
    PatrickCrazy said:
    basically what i read in this post is that if some asshole did some fucked up shit before my dude decided to become v2.0, it makes it easier for me to ride as a fanboy even though i denounced all that shit back then? what kind of fucked up logic is that? wrong is wrong is wrong; doesn't matter who is doing it or who is whining about it

    The absolute weakest argument anyone can make to defend the current administration begins with the words..."But, Bush.....".

    Few people make that argument to defend the current administration.

    However, the "But, Bush" argument is made on the regular to point out the fact that those loudly and forcefully complaining about what Obama does, was either overtly or tacitly approved when it occurred under the Bush administration.

    This would be a little more convincing if some proof of this 'tacit approval' accompanied the argument. In my case, you won't find any because it never happened.

    Assuming that everybody who criticizes Obama gave a rubber stamp to everything W did is a bit of a stretch, to put it mildly.

    Please point to where I said "everybody who criticizes Obama gave a rubber stamp to everything W did"

    Thanks in advance.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    Bon Vivant said:
    Horseleech said:
    Bon Vivant said:
    Rockadelic said:
    PatrickCrazy said:
    basically what i read in this post is that if some asshole did some fucked up shit before my dude decided to become v2.0, it makes it easier for me to ride as a fanboy even though i denounced all that shit back then? what kind of fucked up logic is that? wrong is wrong is wrong; doesn't matter who is doing it or who is whining about it

    The absolute weakest argument anyone can make to defend the current administration begins with the words..."But, Bush.....".

    Few people make that argument to defend the current administration.

    However, the "But, Bush" argument is made on the regular to point out the fact that those loudly and forcefully complaining about what Obama does, was either overtly or tacitly approved when it occurred under the Bush administration.

    This would be a little more convincing if some proof of this 'tacit approval' accompanied the argument. In my case, you won't find any because it never happened.

    Assuming that everybody who criticizes Obama gave a rubber stamp to everything W did is a bit of a stretch, to put it mildly.

    Please point to where I said "everybody who criticizes Obama gave a rubber stamp to everything W did"

    Thanks in advance.

    In the post I responded to. If that's not what it means you might want to rewrite it so that it makes sense.

  • dukeofdelridgedukeofdelridge urgent.monkey.mice 2,453 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:


    ^^^Gayest post ever.


    Fucking evolve

  • dukeofdelridgedukeofdelridge urgent.monkey.mice 2,453 Posts
    All these people are gnarly, the politicians. I have finally accepted it.

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    Horseleech said:


    In the post I responded to. If that's not what it means you might want to rewrite it so that it makes sense.

    You know, I read my post, and then I reread it again.

    And nowhere do I say "everybody who criticizes Obama gave a rubber stamp to everything W did"

    So, maybe you should get your glasses checked. Lasik surgery?

    I didn't say "everybody", and I didn't imply "everybody".

    You just pulled that one out of thin air.

    I said "those". I then qualified "those" and was specific about whom I was referring to. No dictionary gives a definition for "those" as "everybody", nor does any thesaurus list "everybody" as a synonym for "those".

    Intellectual dishonesty and poor reading comprehension at it's finest. Good job, Horse.

  • volumenvolumen 2,532 Posts
    Wow you guys have a lot of hate. I'm not an Obama fan boy at all. I said in the post that that both sides are wrong. I even said Obama has gone far right. And Harvey you have a lot of nerve talking about evolution when you refer to someone's idea as "gay". That's some stone age frat boy stuff there.

    I'm completely opposed to the whole 2 party, 1% ultra rich, military industrial complex that run this country and pretty much the world. Is that clear enough?

    It seems weird that the republicans are going to say the president has too much power when they are the ones that rubber stamped all this power to the presidential position. It has more to do with them being anti-obama than them actually caring about freedom and personal liberty. It's been 12 years of out of control war since 9/11 and now they say something!

    Hell then just bent over for the NRA despite the public's wish to have a little gun control. The vote actually passed and they abandoned the bill because lobbyist and money have more power than people and votes. Clearly they don't care what we want and are on their own self serving, pocket lining, religious zealot agenda. I just think they are making a show now in the hopes that they can win the next election with "ohhhh democrats are scarey and want to trample your rights". When in reality all of congress tramples our rights and puts more value on corporations than citizens.

  • volumenvolumen 2,532 Posts
    Fred_Garvin said:
    Volumen's post doesn't exactly read like fanboy material; what I got from it was that many of the folks currently shitting themselves over the crooked business Obama's either getting behind or allowing to happen, are the same one who were riding for President Bush to be able to do those things, and some of the laws/policies created during that time are the same ones in question now.

    I guess the moral is "be careful what you wish for".

    And as we all know, everything seems more acceptable if your team is doing it. It's harder than it looks to rise above that; my solution so far is to hate everybody.

    No matter which 'side' you approach the issue from, this nonsense has been going on long enough that it seems to have clouded our collective societal sense of what's right and what's wrong. That's where the real danger happens.

    This is my point. Bush was wrong and Obama is wrong, but if you questioned Bush you were unpatriotic and hated the troops! If you question Obama it's because you know he's secretly implementing Sharia law!

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Bon Vivant said:
    Rockadelic said:
    PatrickCrazy said:
    basically what i read in this post is that if some asshole did some fucked up shit before my dude decided to become v2.0, it makes it easier for me to ride as a fanboy even though i denounced all that shit back then? what kind of fucked up logic is that? wrong is wrong is wrong; doesn't matter who is doing it or who is whining about it

    The absolute weakest argument anyone can make to defend the current administration begins with the words..."But, Bush.....".

    Few people make that argument to defend the current administration.

    However, the "But, Bush" argument is made on the regular to point out the fact that those loudly and forcefully complaining about what Obama does, was either overtly or tacitly approved when it occurred under the Bush administration. And that argument should be made.

    Those who can't see the difference in these two separate points are being intellectually lazy and dishonest, IMO.

    Hypocrisy shouldn't get a pass.

    Likewise who accept whatever Obama, and his administration does, should not complain when the Rs get in power and do the same thing.

    Case in point could be the IRS singling out organizations because of a perceived political affiliation.
    Hate it now, or shut up when your group is singled out under a Republican administration.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Even though I am fast to criticize either side when they trample civil liberties, international law or work to further enrich the rich, I have no problem with someone supporting one of the political parties.

    It would be great if we had a multiparty parliamentarian system.
    We do not.
    We have a two party system, and if you want to create change you have to work with in that system.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    Nevermind - completely wrong thread! I got my US issues mixed up. A lot of....ummmm...fumes in the air in Toronto right now.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    volumen said:
    I'm completely opposed to the whole 2 party, 1% ultra rich, military industrial complex that run this country and pretty much the world. Is that clear enough?
    Actually being concerned about what all of these douchebags complain about in response to the evil enemy complely plays into the 2 party dynamic and allows them to get away with all sorts of crazy shit.

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    Bon Vivant said:
    Rockadelic said:
    PatrickCrazy said:
    basically what i read in this post is that if some asshole did some fucked up shit before my dude decided to become v2.0, it makes it easier for me to ride as a fanboy even though i denounced all that shit back then? what kind of fucked up logic is that? wrong is wrong is wrong; doesn't matter who is doing it or who is whining about it

    The absolute weakest argument anyone can make to defend the current administration begins with the words..."But, Bush.....".

    Few people make that argument to defend the current administration.

    However, the "But, Bush" argument is made on the regular to point out the fact that those loudly and forcefully complaining about what Obama does, was either overtly or tacitly approved when it occurred under the Bush administration. And that argument should be made.

    Those who can't see the difference in these two separate points are being intellectually lazy and dishonest, IMO.

    Hypocrisy shouldn't get a pass.

    Likewise who accept whatever Obama, and his administration does, should not complain when the Rs get in power and do the same thing.

    Case in point could be the IRS singling out organizations because of a perceived political affiliation.
    Hate it now, or shut up when your group is singled out under a Republican administration.

    Your first sentence is spot on.

    Your second sentence ignores what the law says. The IRS should be investigating political organizations that are trying to get 501c4 status. You don't like it? Change the law.

  • volumenvolumen 2,532 Posts
    PatrickCrazy said:
    volumen said:
    I'm completely opposed to the whole 2 party, 1% ultra rich, military industrial complex that run this country and pretty much the world. Is that clear enough?
    Actually being concerned about what all of these douchebags complain about in response to the evil enemy complely plays into the 2 party dynamic and allows them to get away with all sorts of crazy shit.

    What I'm saying is that they are all hypocrites and republicans and democrats are actually both on the same side. The side of the ultra wealthy corporations, banks and arms manufactures/dealers. The 2 party dynamic is just a game of divided and conqueror.

  • volumenvolumen 2,532 Posts
    bassie said:
    Nevermind - completely wrong thread! I got my US issues mixed up. A lot of....ummmm...fumes in the air in Toronto right now.

    It was actually a good example of how they both play the same game, which is part of what I'm getting at.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    volumen said:
    bassie said:
    Nevermind - completely wrong thread! I got my US issues mixed up. A lot of....ummmm...fumes in the air in Toronto right now.

    It was actually a good example of how they both play the same game, which is part of what I'm getting at.

    Yea, but it was an IRS-related post. Right example, wrong thread!
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