Aoccdr-nig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mt-taer in waht o-redr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny ipr-moetnt tihng is ta-ht the frist and lsat ltte-er be at the rghit p-clae. The r-set can be a toatl mses and you can sitll rae-d it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcu-seae the huamn mn-id deos not raed ervey lt-eter by istlef, but the wrod as a wloh-e.
The fact that WDC doesn't have a bass line, while interesting to think about, is a footnote at best.
Yeah, it was a really popular song, but at least 99.99% of the people who were buying this never noticed or cared about the lack of a bass. It didn't spawn any revolution in terms of other musicians/producers copying this approach either.
To suggest that it was some kind of benchmark game-changer is imagined/revisionist history, imo.
Totally agreed.
And from an engineering standpoint, the lack of a bassline was actually an (possibly inadvertant) FM power play. The lack of energy in the sub 100 hz area means this song would play louder and brighter across the FM airwaves, with less drag on the multiband limiters that were patched in front of the transmitters. Louder vinyl, louder fm airplay - and as history has shown, winning the loudness wars goes a long way towards pop success - especially back then in its infancy.
Completely off point, but I still feel like I've never really heard Black Moon - Enta Da Stage or Sly Stone - There's A Riot Goin' On, despite listening to those albums dozens of times over the years. It's like listening to an album through a pillow. Annoying as hell, since they're both excellent.
Completely off point, but I still feel like I've never really heard Black Moon - Enta Da Stage or Sly Stone - There's A Riot Goin' On, despite listening to those albums dozens of times over the years. It's like listening to an album through a pillow. Annoying as hell, since they're both excellent.
It's funny, Black Moons album is probably THEE best example of what I'm tawmbout. The low pass filters that so make up the amazing character of that album eat up so much energy that they simply couldn't get it loud without limiting technology that was really yet to be introduced. I could easily remaster that LP and make it louder with todays technology but the first thing to go would be the murky, chest humping bass that so many of us love. I would be extracting the Carhartt from it.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Horseleech said:
The fact that WDC doesn't have a bass line, while interesting to think about, is a footnote at best.
Yeah, it was a really popular song, but at least 99.99% of the people who were buying this never noticed or cared about the lack of a bass. It didn't spawn any revolution in terms of other musicians/producers copying this approach either.
To suggest that it was some kind of benchmark game-changer is imagined/revisionist history, imo.
When Doves Cry was the first Prince song since I Wanna Be Your Lover to make any inroads on UK radio. I noticed the absence of a bassline right away, and while I thought it was unusual, I didn't think it was anything more than that. After all, compared to everything else on the radio back then, it was a pretty unusual-sounding record anyway. It wasn't until years later that I began to hear people talking about it like leaving out the bassline was some daring, transgressive Statement kind of move.
The fact that WDC doesn't have a bass line, while interesting to think about, is a footnote at best.
Yeah, it was a really popular song, but at least 99.99% of the people who were buying this never noticed or cared about the lack of a bass. It didn't spawn any revolution in terms of other musicians/producers copying this approach either.
To suggest that it was some kind of benchmark game-changer is imagined/revisionist history, imo.
When Doves Cry was the first Prince song since I Wanna Be Your Lover to make any inroads on UK radio. I noticed the absence of a bassline right away, and while I thought it was unusual, I didn't think it was anything more than that. After all, compared to everything else on the radio back then, it was a pretty unusual-sounding record anyway. It wasn't until years later that I began to hear people talking about it like leaving out the bassline was some daring, transgressive Statement kind of move.
Nothing from 1999 made waves there? Little Red Corvette or D.M.S.R.?
Nothing from 1999 made waves there? Little Red Corvette or D.M.S.R.?
They were fairly minor hits originally, then when WDC hit big, they got rereleased, when they did do some business. Odd that Prince never had a number one single in the UK until '94.
Here's an excerpt from a 1999 article from Bass Player magazine where Prince (when he was the "Artist formerly known as") explains the origins of WDC and the lack of bass. He basically says there is a bassline -- in the form of the reverb from the kick drum, which is same approach he used in "Kiss." And, incidentally, he uses the terms "BASE" and "BASS" interchangeably, like Batmon.
"The Artist first picked up bass years after he began playing guitar in 1975 -- which, in turn, was years after he started playing the family piano. "Bass was a necessity," he confesses. "I needed it to make my first album." Already a solid drummer, he translated his rhythmic chops to the bass, and everything fell into place fairly quickly. "That???s the thing about playing both bass and drums -- the parts just lock together. Lenny Kravitz is the same way. If you solo his drum part on 'Are You Gonna Go My Way,??? it sounds like, hey -- he ain???t that good. But put everything on top and it comes together. He just gets high on the funk."
So how can a bassist achieve that kind of lock with a live drummer? "I???ll tell you how Larry Graham does it: through his relationship with God. Bootsy plays a little behind the beat -- the way Mavis Staples sings -- but Larry makes the drummer get with him. If he wants to, he can stand up there and go [mimics 16th-note slap line] all night long and never break a sweat." Like the whirling dervishes of Sufi tradition? Exactly. But isn???t it possible to create music as deep as Graham???s without drawing inspiration from a higher power? "No, it isn???t. All things come from God and return to God. I wouldn???t say it necessarily needs to come from a higher place -- but it does need to come from another place."
Of course, The Artist is less known for bass than for the controversial eroticism of such early songs as "Head," "Do Me Baby," and "Darling Nikki." Yet it seems many of his more lurid lyrics are backed by bass-heavy arrangements. Is there a connection between the two? "I???ve never thought about that," he muses with a smile. "But no, there isn???t. Bass is primal, and it reminds me of a large posterior - but both spirituality and sexuality originate higher up in the body. I see them as angelic."
The Artist???s all-time biggest hit, "When Doves Cry" [Purple Rain], is most distinctive because of its lack of a bass line. The song had one but it was pulled at the last minute. "They were almost done editing the movie," he explains, referring to his big-screen debut in Purple Rain. "???When Doves Cry??? was the last song to be mixed, and it just wasn???t sounding right." Prince was sitting with his head on the console listening to a rough mix when one of his singers, Jill Jones, walked in and asked what was wrong. "It was just sounding too conventional, like every other song with drums and bass and keyboards. So I said, ???If I could have it my way it would sound like this,??? and I pulled the bass out of the mix. She said, ???Why don???t you have it your way????" From the beginning Prince had an inkling the tune would be better bass-free, even though he hated to see the part go. "Sometimes your brain kind of splits in two -- your ego tells you one thing, and the rest of you says something else. You have to go with what you know is right."
So bass can work against a song then? "Not necessarily. ???When Doves Cry??? does have bass in it -- the bass is in the kick drum. It???s the same with ???Kiss??? [Parade]: The bass is in the tone of the reverb on the kick. Bass is a lot more than that instrument over there. Bass to me means B-A-S-E. B-A-S-S is a fish."
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
batmon said:
DocMcCoy said:
Horseleech said:
The fact that WDC doesn't have a bass line, while interesting to think about, is a footnote at best.
Yeah, it was a really popular song, but at least 99.99% of the people who were buying this never noticed or cared about the lack of a bass. It didn't spawn any revolution in terms of other musicians/producers copying this approach either.
To suggest that it was some kind of benchmark game-changer is imagined/revisionist history, imo.
When Doves Cry was the first Prince song since I Wanna Be Your Lover to make any inroads on UK radio. I noticed the absence of a bassline right away, and while I thought it was unusual, I didn't think it was anything more than that. After all, compared to everything else on the radio back then, it was a pretty unusual-sounding record anyway. It wasn't until years later that I began to hear people talking about it like leaving out the bassline was some daring, transgressive Statement kind of move.
Nothing from 1999 made waves there? Little Red Corvette or D.M.S.R.?
Not initially. DMSR got some club play, 1999 and Little Red Corvette got some radio, and hipper kids knew about him, but he wasn't really hitting with a pop audience right away. 1999 and Little Red Corvette got another push after the latter crossed over in the US, and both ended up being big hits, but When Doves Cry was pretty much instantaneous.
I was thinking about other notable bassless hits, and "Nothing Compares 2 U" comes to mind. Another Prince ditty. I guess it was a phase he was going through. The OG has no bass either.
The Doors had no bass player.
The gypsys had no home.
Dont let that scare you, let that free you!
kinda seems like this is something only Prince fanboy bootleg tape collector types would really care about. would the average pop music fan notice if it had a bass line or not?
Sucker MC's (without any "OMG they didnt use a baseline" hype) made Hip Hop take heed and set the seeds for more of the same for the next 3 or 4 years until sampling took over.
Marley Marl said when he discovered sampling, he was tired of "basketball rap" haha!
And from an engineering standpoint, the lack of a bassline was actually an (possibly inadvertant) FM power play. The lack of energy in the sub 100 hz area means this song would play louder and brighter across the FM airwaves, with less drag on the multiband limiters that were patched in front of the transmitters. Louder vinyl, louder fm airplay - and as history has shown, winning the loudness wars goes a long way towards pop success - especially back then in its infancy.
Comments
Totally agreed.
And from an engineering standpoint, the lack of a bassline was actually an (possibly inadvertant) FM power play. The lack of energy in the sub 100 hz area means this song would play louder and brighter across the FM airwaves, with less drag on the multiband limiters that were patched in front of the transmitters. Louder vinyl, louder fm airplay - and as history has shown, winning the loudness wars goes a long way towards pop success - especially back then in its infancy.
Completely off point, but I still feel like I've never really heard Black Moon - Enta Da Stage or Sly Stone - There's A Riot Goin' On, despite listening to those albums dozens of times over the years. It's like listening to an album through a pillow. Annoying as hell, since they're both excellent.
It's funny, Black Moons album is probably THEE best example of what I'm tawmbout. The low pass filters that so make up the amazing character of that album eat up so much energy that they simply couldn't get it loud without limiting technology that was really yet to be introduced. I could easily remaster that LP and make it louder with todays technology but the first thing to go would be the murky, chest humping bass that so many of us love. I would be extracting the Carhartt from it.
This technical talk = way over my head
When Doves Cry was the first Prince song since I Wanna Be Your Lover to make any inroads on UK radio. I noticed the absence of a bassline right away, and while I thought it was unusual, I didn't think it was anything more than that. After all, compared to everything else on the radio back then, it was a pretty unusual-sounding record anyway. It wasn't until years later that I began to hear people talking about it like leaving out the bassline was some daring, transgressive Statement kind of move.
Would say "which part is the bass?"
Nothing from 1999 made waves there? Little Red Corvette or D.M.S.R.?
Side bar: "I was dreaming when I wrote this..."
Bullshit. Ain't nobody writing songs in their sleep.
They were fairly minor hits originally, then when WDC hit big, they got rereleased, when they did do some business. Odd that Prince never had a number one single in the UK until '94.
http://princetext.tripod.com/i_bass99.html
"The Artist first picked up bass years after he began playing guitar in 1975 -- which, in turn, was years after he started playing the family piano. "Bass was a necessity," he confesses. "I needed it to make my first album." Already a solid drummer, he translated his rhythmic chops to the bass, and everything fell into place fairly quickly. "That???s the thing about playing both bass and drums -- the parts just lock together. Lenny Kravitz is the same way. If you solo his drum part on 'Are You Gonna Go My Way,??? it sounds like, hey -- he ain???t that good. But put everything on top and it comes together. He just gets high on the funk."
So how can a bassist achieve that kind of lock with a live drummer? "I???ll tell you how Larry Graham does it: through his relationship with God. Bootsy plays a little behind the beat -- the way Mavis Staples sings -- but Larry makes the drummer get with him. If he wants to, he can stand up there and go [mimics 16th-note slap line] all night long and never break a sweat." Like the whirling dervishes of Sufi tradition? Exactly. But isn???t it possible to create music as deep as Graham???s without drawing inspiration from a higher power? "No, it isn???t. All things come from God and return to God. I wouldn???t say it necessarily needs to come from a higher place -- but it does need to come from another place."
Of course, The Artist is less known for bass than for the controversial eroticism of such early songs as "Head," "Do Me Baby," and "Darling Nikki." Yet it seems many of his more lurid lyrics are backed by bass-heavy arrangements. Is there a connection between the two? "I???ve never thought about that," he muses with a smile. "But no, there isn???t. Bass is primal, and it reminds me of a large posterior - but both spirituality and sexuality originate higher up in the body. I see them as angelic."
The Artist???s all-time biggest hit, "When Doves Cry" [Purple Rain], is most distinctive because of its lack of a bass line. The song had one but it was pulled at the last minute. "They were almost done editing the movie," he explains, referring to his big-screen debut in Purple Rain. "???When Doves Cry??? was the last song to be mixed, and it just wasn???t sounding right." Prince was sitting with his head on the console listening to a rough mix when one of his singers, Jill Jones, walked in and asked what was wrong. "It was just sounding too conventional, like every other song with drums and bass and keyboards. So I said, ???If I could have it my way it would sound like this,??? and I pulled the bass out of the mix. She said, ???Why don???t you have it your way????" From the beginning Prince had an inkling the tune would be better bass-free, even though he hated to see the part go. "Sometimes your brain kind of splits in two -- your ego tells you one thing, and the rest of you says something else. You have to go with what you know is right."
So bass can work against a song then? "Not necessarily. ???When Doves Cry??? does have bass in it -- the bass is in the kick drum. It???s the same with ???Kiss??? [Parade]: The bass is in the tone of the reverb on the kick. Bass is a lot more than that instrument over there. Bass to me means B-A-S-E. B-A-S-S is a fish."
- When Doves Cry by tressage
Prince - Kiss by cdipre
Not initially. DMSR got some club play, 1999 and Little Red Corvette got some radio, and hipper kids knew about him, but he wasn't really hitting with a pop audience right away. 1999 and Little Red Corvette got another push after the latter crossed over in the US, and both ended up being big hits, but When Doves Cry was pretty much instantaneous.
The Doors had no bass player.
The gypsys had no home.
Dont let that scare you, let that free you!
BASS IMPURITY
U kno, just 4 kix.
Marley Marl said when he discovered sampling, he was tired of "basketball rap" haha!
Maybe not intentional, but that shit is so true.
prod by The Time's guitarist
Prince Recaps SXSW 4 U