I feel like all the first painful steps that will help to level the field and get representation of all kinds of folks is worth it.
perhaps. but i just don't think it's going to stand up legally in the USA. see recent Michigan case.
affirmative action was designed to reduce, over genrerations, the percentages of african americans living in poverty in the USA . it was working well until it became an "everyone who isn't white or male" action program.
Hey Fatback,
I find it odd that you take such a stance against affirmative action when 97% of its recipients were...White women. The job of bringing about equality in terms of proportional representation between races is far from over. Equality will NEVER occur as long as there is "educational apartheid" in this country (see Jonathan Kozol's 1991 book "Savage Inequalities" for more details).
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
why is that strange? you think i'm a white woman?
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
I feel like all the first painful steps that will help to level the field and get representation of all kinds of folks is worth it.
perhaps. but i just don't think it's going to stand up legally in the USA. see recent Michigan case.
affirmative action was designed to reduce, over genrerations, the percentages of african americans living in poverty in the USA . it was working well until it became an "everyone who isn't white or male" action program.
Hey Fatback,
I find it odd that you take such a stance against affirmative action when 97% of its recipients were...White women. The job of bringing about equality in terms of proportional representation between races is far from over. Equality will NEVER occur as long as there is "educational apartheid" in this country (see Jonathan Kozol's 1991 book "Savage Inequalities" for more details).
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
why is that strange? you think i'm a white woman?
No, you seem to be making the argument that opportunities for AA beneficiaries hurt those for Whites and/or males, which isn't entirely true. That is an assumption that right wingers love to make, but never substantiate. I can guess why, because the numbers don't support their redneck rhetoric.
the south was not desegregated. more like resegregated. i get your point though.
also your saying more clearly (as usual) what i think.
...I think if people are serious about addressing issues of institutional racism, they need to find some better shit than AA to hang their hopes on. I'm not saying AA is a terrible idea per se, but as more time goes by, it simply ceases to address the changing social landscape. Actually, I'm not sure if it ever was conceived to properly address that landscape to begin with. IT's always been a program that, by and large, has benefited the middle class rather than the underclass.
i watch conservative think tanks and right wing advocacy groups very carefully. ending affirmative action is still highest on their cultural agendas--behind the smoke screen of intellegent design and pro-life. trust me.
watch out. be ready to provide better resposes to the arguments.
how can you justify trading in one form of discrimination for another?
i don't expect you to read every post in detail. who does? but for the record you are wrong about what I "seem" to be doing.
i'm exposing the applied failures of affirmative action and all you can try is the "white woman" response? you can do better. you need to.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
the south was not desegregated. more like resegregated. i get your point though.
also your saying more clearly (as usual) what i think.
...I think if people are serious about addressing issues of institutional racism, they need to find some better shit than AA to hang their hopes on. I'm not saying AA is a terrible idea per se, but as more time goes by, it simply ceases to address the changing social landscape. Actually, I'm not sure if it ever was conceived to properly address that landscape to begin with. IT's always been a program that, by and large, has benefited the middle class rather than the underclass.
i watch conservative think tanks and right wing advocacy groups very carefully. ending affirmative action is still highest on their cultural agendas--behind the smoke screen of intellegent design and pro-life. trust me.
watch out. be ready to provide better resposes to the arguments.
how can you justify trading in one form of discrimination for another?
How is AA discriminatory when all parties' qualifications are screened? A floodgate just doesn't open and beneficiaries pour into organizations and universities like the tide. Plus, when you talk proportional numbers, Whites are advantaged in every category including college admissions, administrative positions in firms, employment rate, homeownership, annual income, weekly income, etc. Shiiiit, cry me a river!!!! Excuse me, but the posts read like you were construing AA as killing opportunities for Whites.
Your side needs something that rings like "reverse discrimination or "quota systems" becuase like it or not, public opinion is moving away from support of affirmative action.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Hey Fatback,
Who says I'm a supporter? Anyway, I just find it hard to stomach how White guys can talk about being disadvantaged given the history and continuing unearned privilege that Whites enjoy DAILY. I find it arrogant and insulting that they spew off about the merit principle and such. Shit, as if there has ever been a level playing field. America was built on Whites' unearned advantages over ALL OTHER GROUPS. Tell that to Lewis Latimer from whom Edison stole patents. Tell that to the minority applicants at Abercrombie & Fitch and Milgard Manufacturing, Inc., or minority workers at Tyson Foods in Alabama. Man, you've got some nerve. History and current events back my story.
however, if anyone thinks US govt. policies develop around what is right, owed or simply fair*, they're hopelessly naive. it's about swaying public opinion with quick effective slogans repeated everywhere over and over and some strategic lobbying of congress. (where the left is wholly inept these days.)
furthermore, the left is loosing big time on most cultural issues, not to mention everything else in DC. the only hope is that the right gets sloppy drunk with their power again, but they'll be back and more powerfull each time until the left learns to speak the language of the people again.
*
Shit, as if there has ever been a level playing field. America was built on Whites' unearned advantages over ALL OTHER GROUPS. Tell that to Lewis Latimer from whom Edison stole patents. Tell that to the minority applicants at Abercrombie & Fitch and Milgard Manufacturing, Inc., or minority workers at Tyson Foods in Alabama.
to add: in the last few months, I have applied for a few jobs in the field of neighborhood-based community development (which is what I do now). The positions are with large non-profits that work in inner city neighborhoods. So far, at 2 of the jobs, I have essentially been told that they are looking for more "diverse" candidates that are "more suited" to work with the "target populations." In other words, since I'm white, I have no clue how to communicate with other races and ethnicities. And to boot, the people who have made these statements are white.
I was looking for some more positive thoughts in this thread to maybe bring people (I don't mean the race thing on a whole) together. To start bringing the shit we have in common. Or sharing something about cultures...
But anyways,
but ultimately, it's the actions you lead off the board that will truly define your position.
Comments
why is that strange? you think i'm a white woman?
No, you seem to be making the argument that opportunities for AA beneficiaries hurt those for Whites and/or males, which isn't entirely true. That is an assumption that right wingers love to make, but never substantiate. I can guess why, because the numbers don't support their redneck rhetoric.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
also your saying more clearly (as usual) what i think.
i watch conservative think tanks and right wing advocacy groups very carefully. ending affirmative action is still highest on their cultural agendas--behind the smoke screen of intellegent design and pro-life. trust me.
watch out. be ready to provide better resposes to the arguments.
how can you justify trading in one form of discrimination for another?
i'm exposing the applied failures of affirmative action and all you can try is the "white woman" response? you can do better. you need to.
How is AA discriminatory when all parties' qualifications are screened? A floodgate just doesn't open and beneficiaries pour into organizations and universities like the tide. Plus, when you talk proportional numbers, Whites are advantaged in every category including college admissions, administrative positions in firms, employment rate, homeownership, annual income, weekly income, etc. Shiiiit, cry me a river!!!! Excuse me, but the posts read like you were construing AA as killing opportunities for Whites.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Who says I'm a supporter? Anyway, I just find it hard to stomach how White guys can talk about being disadvantaged given the history and continuing unearned privilege that Whites enjoy DAILY. I find it arrogant and insulting that they spew off about the merit principle and such. Shit, as if there has ever been a level playing field. America was built on Whites' unearned advantages over ALL OTHER GROUPS. Tell that to Lewis Latimer from whom Edison stole patents. Tell that to the minority applicants at Abercrombie & Fitch and Milgard Manufacturing, Inc., or minority workers at Tyson Foods in Alabama. Man, you've got some nerve. History and current events back my story.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
however, if anyone thinks US govt. policies develop around what is right, owed or simply fair*, they're hopelessly naive. it's about swaying public opinion with quick effective slogans repeated everywhere over and over and some strategic lobbying of congress. (where the left is wholly inept these days.)
furthermore, the left is loosing big time on most cultural issues, not to mention everything else in DC. the only hope is that the right gets sloppy drunk with their power again, but they'll be back and more powerfull each time until the left learns to speak the language of the people again.
*
why abortion will become illegal because the best the left can counter "life begins at conception" with is "a woman's right to choose"
Hmm...gee, I didn't get that the latter is somehow a meaningless argument.
Is it just me or is Fatback filling in the vacuum left by Archaic?
its like freaky friday up in here
thank you. you'll have ot wait till next week for more. anyways, the pron thread is where it's at.
But anyways,
Quote of the year for me.. Cause it's so true.
No way man.. It's all good. No matter what, discussion, debate & opinions are a good thing.