i work in the industry, have a post grad qualification
Sorry but if you are indeed a scientist then you understand the very rudimentary concept of biodiversity and thus how GMO's and reducing crop types are an hindrance to this?
Why do I walk into most large grocery stores and see only 1 type of cucumber, 2 types of tomato? An old post war industry that now propagates only one seed type, not good. We have lost so many crop types in such a short time because of these big businesses. There's nothing to believe in or not vis a vis conspiracy, these aren't speculations they are facts.
Not to mention, the terminator gene was developed as yet another way to further commodify the production process of food. Forget farmers with their heritage seed strains that have been developed over decades and were bred to weather both the climate and insects of their local area. Now, the same seed gets sold to farmers everywhere, whether in Saskatchewan or California, every year. All these corporations are selling more seeds than ever before, and since these new seeds are more susceptible to local pests, they are selling more of their pesticides.
seeds that can only be harvested one season, created by a corporation, in a lab, with the specific purpose of rendering farmers dependent and increasing profits = genetic mutations that occur naturally over the course of 1,000,000 years.
guys, it's just a difference in scale; it's essentially the same thing!
what are we going to do when the last pesticide is banned and we can't hardly grow any good quality crops because foreign species have invaded and 'organics' are too susceptible to disease? do you all know the half-life of every chemical and it's activity in the soil? thought not. we are not in the days of vietman/agent orange anymore.
i am simply defending GMO's and pesticides, not saying it is the only road we should go down.
do you all know the half-life of every chemical and it's activity in the soil? thought not.
Whatever you think you know may not be true. Case in point: the half-life of Cesium 137 around Chernobyl is expected to remain in the soil much much longer than anticipated.
In the context of this argument you are biased because your salary depends either fully or in part by your spreading information & possibly 'misinformation' (knowingly or not) about this topic.
there's not enough food in the world to feed everyone without them.
Not true.
The so called first world is doing everything they can to produce more and more quantity of lower and lower quality and flooding the world market with this shit. This ensures to keep any farming efforts in the third world from being able to compete on the market and keeps them producing stuff like chocolate and coffee which for the most part, we can't grow ourselves or at least not as cheaply as where there is still slave- and child labor. Then we send relief organizations over there who distribute foodstuff that these organizations buy as excess product from evil corporations. This keeps the third world dependent and fucked up and us as "rich" as possible.
[Whatever you think you know may not be true. Case in point: the half-life of Celsium 137 around Chernobyl is expected to remain in the soil much much longer than expected.
In the context of this argument you are biased because your salary depends either fully or in part by your spreading information & possibly 'misinformation' about this topic.
oh behave ost!!! i work for a public educational institution and a world governing body of an extremely popular global sport. i'd rather not say who i work for, but it's nothing like what you just suggested. i'm not trying to be condescending as i've been accused of, just stating my position of being surrounded by a certain type of plant breeding, trials and pesticide research. i have no vested interest and i'm not reliant on selling anything.
rootlesscosmo, i think you need to go and read this thread again. you are trying to argue from a position of incredulity. 'i don't understand how it works so i'm not going to believe it'. at least admit to the possibility that you may be wrong. that gmo's and pesticides are not the harbingers of doom that you claim. and stop putting words in my mouth. last time i checked it wasn't a crime to give an informed opinion on a legitimate field of scientific research. hardly indefensible is it? i'm off to bed. have to get up early tomorrow and destroy some more biodiversity while making people take deadly chemical showers. rolly eyes.....
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
rootlesscosmo, i think you need to go and read this thread again. you are trying to argue from a position of incredulity. 'i don't understand how it works so i'm not going to believe it'. at least admit to the possibility that you may be wrong. that gmo's and pesticides are not the harbingers of doom that you claim. and stop putting words in my mouth. last time i checked it wasn't a crime to give an informed opinion on a legitimate field of scientific research. hardly indefensible is it? i'm off to bed. have to get up early tomorrow and destroy some more biodiversity while making people take deadly chemical showers. rolly eyes.....
You don't need to be a qualified scientist to comment - the potential advantages of GM foods, chemical fertilisers and pesticides are obvious. Unfortunately, so are the risks - Monsanto in particular has a long and deeply chequered history so I'm not sure why you think that they're any more ethical and trustworthy now than they've proved to be in the past. The GM revolution has been like the birth of atomic energy - it's only as safe as the people controlling it and once it's out there it can't be put back in the box. GM may not be inherently bad but I suspect Monsanto is.
Alright Rishan,
I really don't give a shit about philosophy, lets talk nuts and bolts. I have a large plot that I farm and have been infested for a second time with Keelbacked Treehopper (antianthe expansa) larvea. The ants are farming them and i am losing the battle. 5 vintage and rare strains of tomato are under attack and I am at a loss here as to how to stop them. They have started moving to my peppers now. Sevins don't kill them and I could give a fuck about organic, I'm about to lose the whole lot here.
Alright Rishan,
I really don't give a shit about philosophy, lets talk nuts and bolts. I have a large plot that I farm and have been infested for a second time with Keelbacked Treehopper (antianthe expansa) larvea. The ants are farming them and i am losing the battle. 5 vintage and rare strains of tomato are under attack and I am at a loss here as to how to stop them. They have started moving to my peppers now. Sevins don't kill them and I could give a fuck about organic, I'm about to lose the whole lot here.
Help please.
Make a spray from Doctor Bronners Eucalyptus soap at a seven parts water, one part soap dilution - virtually no insect can withstand this and it's non-toxic and biodegradable. You can make it even more effective by soaking some Scotch Bonnet or other hot peppers in it, but then you have to be a lot more careful when spraying as it will be very irritating to your skin and eyes.
Be sure to use the Eucalyptus, the other ones won't have much of an effect.
Thanks so much.. I'll try this tonight and report back.
Its really disheartening for me as I grew up in a townhome and have no idea what i'm doing out there but i love farming. These bugs are NASTY looking and are destroying my crops. I was pesticide free for a year and was really frustrated until i realized that even chemicals won't kill these things. Its crazy how the ants protect them too. Natures crazy!
Alright Rishan,
I really don't give a shit about philosophy, lets talk nuts and bolts. I have a large plot that I farm and have been infested for a second time with Keelbacked Treehopper (antianthe expansa) larvea. The ants are farming them and i am losing the battle. 5 vintage and rare strains of tomato are under attack and I am at a loss here as to how to stop them. They have started moving to my peppers now. Sevins don't kill them and I could give a fuck about organic, I'm about to lose the whole lot here.
Help please.
]
i'm not familiar with these beasties, being in a different country and everything, but the life cycle and biology means the chemicals you could use to achieve some control are chlorpyrifos and imidacloprid (bifenthrin and carbendazim are possibly banned in US). i don't know what the trade names are there (Bayer and Dow make them here) and you will need to hire a professional to spray. it will be a hell of an obscene expense too, more than $1000 for a 5kg box. you will probably need 30kg per hectare (10000 square metres). you need to get them at the larvae stage when they are active at that particular time of year. you will probably need some form of licence but the sprayer will know about the regulations.
kinda sad my "what's wrong with monsanto" troll post didn't get more love : |
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Alright Rishan,
I really don't give a shit about philosophy, lets talk nuts and bolts. I have a large plot that I farm and have been infested for a second time with Keelbacked Treehopper (antianthe expansa) larvea. The ants are farming them and i am losing the battle. 5 vintage and rare strains of tomato are under attack and I am at a loss here as to how to stop them. They have started moving to my peppers now. Sevins don't kill them and I could give a fuck about organic, I'm about to lose the whole lot here.
Help please.
]
i'm not familiar with these beasties, being in a different country and everything, but the life cycle and biology means the chemicals you could use to achieve some control are chlorpyrifos and imidacloprid (bifenthrin and carbendazim are possibly banned in US). i don't know what the trade names are there (Bayer and Dow make them here) and you will need to hire a professional to spray. it will be a hell of an obscene expense too, more than $1000 for a 5kg box. you will probably need 30kg per hectare (10000 square metres). you need to get them at the larvae stage when they are active at that particular time of year. you will probably need some form of licence but the sprayer will know about the regulations.
This is your suggestion??? Why not just say drop agent orange from an F16, sheesh.
A quick thought for the Strut: My girl works for a food research organization trying to push congress to label GM foods such as done with any organic product to be sold commercially. Who here thinks food packaging should be labeled in this manner? Who here thinks it shouldn't?
100% agree with complete disclosure
don't think it will make much difference when the only tag people look at is the price tag but information on what a mufuckah is eating should be made readily available
Alright Rishan,
I really don't give a shit about philosophy, lets talk nuts and bolts. I have a large plot that I farm and have been infested for a second time with Keelbacked Treehopper (antianthe expansa) larvea. The ants are farming them and i am losing the battle. 5 vintage and rare strains of tomato are under attack and I am at a loss here as to how to stop them. They have started moving to my peppers now. Sevins don't kill them and I could give a fuck about organic, I'm about to lose the whole lot here.
Help please.
]
i'm not familiar with these beasties, being in a different country and everything, but the life cycle and biology means the chemicals you could use to achieve some control are chlorpyrifos and imidacloprid (bifenthrin and carbendazim are possibly banned in US). i don't know what the trade names are there (Bayer and Dow make them here) and you will need to hire a professional to spray. it will be a hell of an obscene expense too, more than $1000 for a 5kg box. you will probably need 30kg per hectare (10000 square metres). you need to get them at the larvae stage when they are active at that particular time of year. you will probably need some form of licence but the sprayer will know about the regulations.
Ok, I see.
Fuck this industry. I just want to grow some food for my family and neighborhood elders. Dr. Bronnners it is.
[
This is your suggestion??? Why not just say drop agent orange from an F16, sheesh.
because there are safe methods of application at prescribed dose rates. this is what i've been trying to say all along. just like the concentration of anti-fungal ketoconazole (the same groups of -azoles in fungicides) in dandruff shampoo doesn't kill you, and all manner of other chemicals in every day products don't kill you. remarkable the things we know in the name of science.
but i still hope horseleech's method works. much rather not spray unless you had to...
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
You said it would cost over $1,000. Science tells you that's practical for a backyard garden?
GMO development companies are doing nothing to increase biodiversity, local food security or the livelihood of small independent farmers (and having a lot of small independent farms is another form of agricultural and economic diversity).
they are not altruistic. they are companies focused on making enormous profits and who lobby politicians to bend rules, relax regulations, and underfund enforcement so that they can increase their profits. their products are designed to withstand the soil depletion and environmental imbalance of monocropping, lack of crop rotation and mechanized agriculture. they are designed to accommodate the shipping and handling of global transportation and the need for supermarket product conformity. gmo is the epitome of agribusiness, and the polar opposite of food culture. everywhere they go they are like WalMarts in small town america, undermining local food systems...which are arguably one of the most important social, cultural and economic aspects of human existence.
fuck you monsanto and everyone who makes tons of money off your business
and rishan, i have great respect for science...but scientists' lack of foresight, ego and constant push to re-engineer everything under the sun has pretty much poisoned the earth in order to make the world a more convenient place
also industrial agriculture in general is completely reliant on fossil fuels for pesticides, fertilizers and distribution. dumb
i need to check in on cuba, last i heard a couple years back they were breaking up huge government holdings and creating a much more localized, small farm agricultural system. anyone know of recent happenings down there? has monsanto taken over?
Comments
Not to mention, the terminator gene was developed as yet another way to further commodify the production process of food. Forget farmers with their heritage seed strains that have been developed over decades and were bred to weather both the climate and insects of their local area. Now, the same seed gets sold to farmers everywhere, whether in Saskatchewan or California, every year. All these corporations are selling more seeds than ever before, and since these new seeds are more susceptible to local pests, they are selling more of their pesticides.
:killin_it:
i am simply defending GMO's and pesticides, not saying it is the only road we should go down.
Whatever you think you know may not be true. Case in point: the half-life of Cesium 137 around Chernobyl is expected to remain in the soil much much longer than anticipated.
In the context of this argument you are biased because your salary depends either fully or in part by your spreading information & possibly 'misinformation' (knowingly or not) about this topic.
Not true.
The so called first world is doing everything they can to produce more and more quantity of lower and lower quality and flooding the world market with this shit. This ensures to keep any farming efforts in the third world from being able to compete on the market and keeps them producing stuff like chocolate and coffee which for the most part, we can't grow ourselves or at least not as cheaply as where there is still slave- and child labor. Then we send relief organizations over there who distribute foodstuff that these organizations buy as excess product from evil corporations. This keeps the third world dependent and fucked up and us as "rich" as possible.
oh behave ost!!! i work for a public educational institution and a world governing body of an extremely popular global sport. i'd rather not say who i work for, but it's nothing like what you just suggested. i'm not trying to be condescending as i've been accused of, just stating my position of being surrounded by a certain type of plant breeding, trials and pesticide research. i have no vested interest and i'm not reliant on selling anything.
quote of the year.
"hey guys, I'm just over here defending Monsanto; c'mon -- give a guy a break!!!" *shrugs*
You don't need to be a qualified scientist to comment - the potential advantages of GM foods, chemical fertilisers and pesticides are obvious. Unfortunately, so are the risks - Monsanto in particular has a long and deeply chequered history so I'm not sure why you think that they're any more ethical and trustworthy now than they've proved to be in the past. The GM revolution has been like the birth of atomic energy - it's only as safe as the people controlling it and once it's out there it can't be put back in the box. GM may not be inherently bad but I suspect Monsanto is.
I really don't give a shit about philosophy, lets talk nuts and bolts. I have a large plot that I farm and have been infested for a second time with Keelbacked Treehopper (antianthe expansa) larvea. The ants are farming them and i am losing the battle. 5 vintage and rare strains of tomato are under attack and I am at a loss here as to how to stop them. They have started moving to my peppers now. Sevins don't kill them and I could give a fuck about organic, I'm about to lose the whole lot here.
Help please.
Make a spray from Doctor Bronners Eucalyptus soap at a seven parts water, one part soap dilution - virtually no insect can withstand this and it's non-toxic and biodegradable. You can make it even more effective by soaking some Scotch Bonnet or other hot peppers in it, but then you have to be a lot more careful when spraying as it will be very irritating to your skin and eyes.
Be sure to use the Eucalyptus, the other ones won't have much of an effect.
Its really disheartening for me as I grew up in a townhome and have no idea what i'm doing out there but i love farming. These bugs are NASTY looking and are destroying my crops. I was pesticide free for a year and was really frustrated until i realized that even chemicals won't kill these things. Its crazy how the ants protect them too. Natures crazy!
i'm not familiar with these beasties, being in a different country and everything, but the life cycle and biology means the chemicals you could use to achieve some control are chlorpyrifos and imidacloprid (bifenthrin and carbendazim are possibly banned in US). i don't know what the trade names are there (Bayer and Dow make them here) and you will need to hire a professional to spray. it will be a hell of an obscene expense too, more than $1000 for a 5kg box. you will probably need 30kg per hectare (10000 square metres). you need to get them at the larvae stage when they are active at that particular time of year. you will probably need some form of licence but the sprayer will know about the regulations.
This is your suggestion??? Why not just say drop agent orange from an F16, sheesh.
don't think it will make much difference when the only tag people look at is the price tag but information on what a mufuckah is eating should be made readily available
Ok, I see.
Fuck this industry. I just want to grow some food for my family and neighborhood elders. Dr. Bronnners it is.
because there are safe methods of application at prescribed dose rates. this is what i've been trying to say all along. just like the concentration of anti-fungal ketoconazole (the same groups of -azoles in fungicides) in dandruff shampoo doesn't kill you, and all manner of other chemicals in every day products don't kill you. remarkable the things we know in the name of science.
but i still hope horseleech's method works. much rather not spray unless you had to...
they are not altruistic. they are companies focused on making enormous profits and who lobby politicians to bend rules, relax regulations, and underfund enforcement so that they can increase their profits. their products are designed to withstand the soil depletion and environmental imbalance of monocropping, lack of crop rotation and mechanized agriculture. they are designed to accommodate the shipping and handling of global transportation and the need for supermarket product conformity. gmo is the epitome of agribusiness, and the polar opposite of food culture. everywhere they go they are like WalMarts in small town america, undermining local food systems...which are arguably one of the most important social, cultural and economic aspects of human existence.
fuck you monsanto and everyone who makes tons of money off your business
and rishan, i have great respect for science...but scientists' lack of foresight, ego and constant push to re-engineer everything under the sun has pretty much poisoned the earth in order to make the world a more convenient place
also industrial agriculture in general is completely reliant on fossil fuels for pesticides, fertilizers and distribution. dumb
i need to check in on cuba, last i heard a couple years back they were breaking up huge government holdings and creating a much more localized, small farm agricultural system. anyone know of recent happenings down there? has monsanto taken over?