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Poll: Miles Davis or John Coltrane

buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
edited December 2011 in Strut Central
Spent a little bit of the afternoon listening to these guys again. Just wondering if the Strut collective had a preference either way. I'm a heavily Coltrane leaning fellow myself.

annnnd go...
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  Comments

  • TheKindCromangTheKindCromang 1,463 Posts
    My buddy swore off Miles Davis after reading about how he used to physically beat Coltrane (who was a pacifist). I appreciate Davis' immense contributions to Jazz music but Coltrane took it to a whole other place and level. My vote is definitely with COLTRANE
  • buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
    Yeah, I'm not really a huge expert on their back stories. But its pretty common knowledge that Miles was a seriously jaded MF, whereas Coltrane was trying to unlock a spiritual eden of some kind. Funny then how Coltrane's music was always so much more violent in comparison to Miles'
  • RishanRishan 454 Posts
    Coltrane all the way
  • unityunity 179 Posts
    TheKindCromang said:
    My buddy swore off Miles Davis after reading about how he used to physically beat Coltrane (who was a pacifist). I appreciate Davis' immense contributions to Jazz music but Coltrane took it to a whole other place and level. My vote is definitely with COLTRANE

    Never heard about this, but Miles loved boxing and was involved in boxer training. I voted for Miles, fwiw.
  • leonleon 883 Posts
    A love supreme is the ultimate spiritual jazz piece imo, for that alone he gets my vote.
  • strataspherestratasphere Blastin' the Nasty 1,035 Posts
    leon said:
    A love supreme is the ultimate spiritual jazz piece imo, for that alone he gets my vote.


    I hold his Kulu Se Mama lp in the same regard.
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Music pleez.

    Hittin women and doing heroin dont count.
  • pimlicosquirrelpimlicosquirrel 772 Posts
  • PocketLintPocketLint 17 Posts
    I guess if you're talking about contribution to jazz Miles might get my vote. He had sub genres of jazz covered w bebop, hard bop, cool, modal, a slight hint of free with his second quintet (my favorite miles group), fusion and whatever that stuff he did at the end of his career. He adapted, invented and surrounded himself by great musicians. But he wasn't my favorite trumpet player and he sounded like a jerk.

    Trane seemed to be good guy obsessed with his music. Spent the later part of his life looking into healing properties of music. Apparently, always practicing. I've yet to hear an unkind word about him as a person. His classic quartet music is still some of the most beautiful music I've ever heard. Afro blue impressions, first meditation, Coltrane and crescent are always there to lift my spirits when I'm down.


    Got to go with Trane. Dedication, kindness, ability to play. Heck I even named my son after the guy.
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    TheKindCromang said:
    My buddy swore off Miles Davis after reading about how he used to physically beat Coltrane (who was a pacifist).

    Where did he read this?

    :icallbullshit:
  • fishmongerfunkfishmongerfunk 4,154 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    TheKindCromang said:
    My buddy swore off Miles Davis after reading about how he used to physically beat Coltrane (who was a pacifist).

    Where did he read this?

    :icallbullshit:

    and even if it were true, who gives a fuck? what does any of that have to do with the music these men created?
  • CBearCBear 902 Posts
    Dude = Coltrane

    Music = Davis
  • TheKindCromangTheKindCromang 1,463 Posts
    crabmongerfunk said:
    Horseleech said:
    TheKindCromang said:
    My buddy swore off Miles Davis after reading about how he used to physically beat Coltrane (who was a pacifist).

    Where did he read this?

    :icallbullshit:

    and even if it were true, who gives a fuck? what does any of that have to do with the music these men created?

    My friend read it in a Coltrane biography. He actually told me Miles would beat Coltrane with his trumpet (?!?) but I would have to read that myself to believe it.

    Regardless... I think it's pretty common knowledge that Miles would beat women, and in my mind, that colors the way I hear his music.
    Some people are able to separate the artist and their art, but to me the two are definitely connected.
  • buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
    batmon said:
    Music pleez.

    I think you could make a case that Miles made better jazz in the traditional sense, and sort of defined what we even think the term traditional sense means, but something about Coltrane's sound is just purely elevating. Like, music for the ears vs. music for something more.

    Coltrane has on his resume: Blue Train, Giant Steps, My Favorite Things, Ole, A Love Supreme, and not to mention he plays on a lot of the classic Miles recordings as well.

    Although some folks might say Coltrane was sort of a one trick pony; I'd like them to weigh in.
  • fishmongerfunkfishmongerfunk 4,154 Posts
    TheKindCromang said:
    Some people are able to separate the artist and their art, but to me the two are definitely connected.

    i think that the latter is an absolutely absurd way to go about appreciating and understanding music, but to each his own.
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    crabmongerfunk said:
    TheKindCromang said:
    Some people are able to separate the artist and their art, but to me the two are definitely connected.


    i think that the latter is an absolutely absurd way to go about appreciating and understanding music, but to each his own.

    So you only.listen to music made by good people?
  • TheKindCromangTheKindCromang 1,463 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    crabmongerfunk said:
    TheKindCromang said:
    Some people are able to separate the artist and their art, but to me the two are definitely connected.


    i think that the latter is an absolutely absurd way to go about appreciating and understanding music, but to each his own.

    So you only.listen to music made by good people?

    Plaese to be serious.

    The question is Miles VS Coltrane. We're talking about two human beings. One person was known to be a violent jerk and the other was practically a saint. My vote is for the second guy. If you're saying this is strictly about their music...my vote is still with the second guy.
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    TheKindCromang said:
    Horseleech said:
    crabmongerfunk said:
    TheKindCromang said:
    Some people are able to separate the artist and their art, but to me the two are definitely connected.


    i think that the latter is an absolutely absurd way to go about appreciating and understanding music, but to each his own.

    So you only.listen to music made by good people?

    Plaese to be serious.

    The question is Miles VS Coltrane. We're talking about two human beings. One person was known to be a violent jerk and the other was practically a saint. My vote is for the second guy. If you're saying this is strictly about their music...my vote is still with the second guy.

    Sorry, but your statement reads as a generalization, even in the context of this thread.

    And I think both of these men are a little more complicated than you make them out to be.
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Miles cause he lived longer to experiment, even if Trane was already in another galaxy before he passed.

    Electric Miles gives him an edge IMO. Its not about whether its good or bad but extending the language.

    Bitches Brew..............

    I would love to hear what trane would have tried in the 70s.
  • ritmo69ritmo69 4 Posts
    Miles Davis all the way, although it would be very interesting if Coltrane lived thru the seventies. . . .
    But he didn't
  • coolchriscoolchris 301 Posts
    There are very few albums that come as close to perfection as Giant Steps does to my ears. Coltrane's tone hits on a spiritual level that I really can't compare to any other player or musician. I love Miles, but Coltrane wins...by miles.
  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    Coltrane.

    About the art and the artist, I agree with Horseleech et al, but in this case, I have to wonder if the warmth I hear in Coltrane's music that is just not there for me in Davis' has something to do with one man's soul and intregrity that is lacking in the other's.
  • buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
    Should we call it then?

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    button said:
    Should we call it then?


    Betty Davis Vs Alice Coltrane......
  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    Rate-the-Wife! lol

    It's hard to find someone to put alongside Alice Coltrane to do an artist this-or-that? imo...maybe a Betty Davis or Millie Jackson though - as imbalanced as their outputs are?
  • BlastkidBlastkid 240 Posts
    With the chance of pissing some dudes off: I've always thought that Coltrane is a bit overrated. He is regarded as a half-god, which I think is caused simply by the fact that he passed away at the height of his career and thus never made such crap as Miles did in his later years, which caused a lot of people to dislike him. And even though I don't like the 70s/80s Miles Davis stuff, I do believe that Coltrane would've never been able to adapt to the modern sounds as well as Miles did.
  • buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
    I think Miles' career was probably more consistent and obviously stretched longer in both directions. I think most would agree that he had an incredible knack for finding that tiny sweet spot straddling artistry and marketability. I would disagree that Coltrane's best work was at the end of his career.. Personally, Even though I appreciate them as products, I rarely revisit Ascension or his other late sessions. I think his golden era was in late 50s thru A Love Supreme.

    My first Coltrane epiphany came when I heard this for the first time:

  • fishmongerfunkfishmongerfunk 4,154 Posts
    i never have the urge to put on one of trane's post-65 vomit sax excursions even though i have them filed.
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Ill rock Ascension or even Expression once a year while im cleaning house or cookin and shit.
  • buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
    I heard thru a friend, one time, that Betty Davis would take off her platform boots and physically assault Alice with them. Not cool...
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