I don't recall ever saying anything either way regarding that loaded question but I think our tax code is a complete mess and favor either a flat or negative income tax. I don't think "rich" people should be paying a higher percentage because it's "fair."
Why are you using quotations around the word rich? Do you not think persons earning one million+ are rich?
I don't recall ever saying anything either way regarding that loaded question but I think our tax code is a complete mess and favor either a flat or negative income tax. I don't think "rich" people should be paying a higher percentage because it's "fair."
Why are you using quotations around the word rich? Do you not think persons earning one million+ are rich?
We are all fucked with the way this country is going, rich or poor, and things won't get better until this blame game bullshit ends. So disgusted.
I'm not sure I fully understand this. If your country carries on the way it is, both rich and poor will suffer in exactly the same way? So, those who are currently wealthy will drop to the same standard of living as the poor, or lower? Or when you say "fucked" do you mean in relative terms?
When we have riots in the streets because the average person is unable to afford food, the RICH that are able to will live in isolation and fear. I guess you could see one side as better or worse but I wouldn't call either living.
Yeah, because they couldn't just move to a country were there isn't rioting. Oh wait, yes they can. They're rich!
When we have riots in the streets because the average person is unable to afford food, the RICH that are able to will live in isolation and fear.
If this is where things are headed, isn't it in everyone's benefit to support a system where everyone can has the opportunity to enjoy the same quality of life?
Absolutely.
So how de we do it? What needs to change?
Had this thread been titled "Solve the world's problems" I probably would not have posted in it.
Sure you would have. You post in every political thread, and then claim you don't.
I don't recall ever saying anything either way regarding that loaded question but I think our tax code is a complete mess and favor either a flat or negative income tax. I don't think "rich" people should be paying a higher percentage because it's "fair."
Why are you using quotations around the word rich? Do you not think persons earning one million+ are rich?
guys come on, we all know that if we tax the rich less, the wealth will trickle down and everyone will be able to afford to buy a Kindle??? and jump start the economy. (just look at the wellspring of jobs that are created every time there's a big tax cut for the rich) poor people need to get it together and start paying their fair share! clearly they aren't that poor if they have a refrigerator AND a microwave! they should just get a job at wal mart, wash windshields, make some trinkets or something. poor people must not have a sense of shame.
guys come on, we all know that if we tax the rich less, the wealth will trickle down and everyone will be able to afford to buy a Kindle??? and jump start the economy. (just look at the wellspring of jobs that are created every time there's a big tax cut for the rich) poor people need to get it together and start paying their fair share! clearly they aren't that poor if they have a refrigerator AND a microwave! they should just get a job at wal mart, wash windshields, make some trinkets or something. poor people must not have a sense of shame.
Violent uprising is the only answer, and anything short of violence is a waste of time. And it's likely that the violence would have to be continuous to keep people from falling back into old patterns of exploitation. It's non-rich people's fault for not fighting back harder. Either fight back violently or continue to suffer.
We trained ourselves quite well in politics and weapons, and suddenly, when the rich were throwing their New Year's Eve parties, we fell upon their cities and just took them over.
guys come on, we all know that if we tax the rich less, the wealth will trickle down and everyone will be able to afford to buy a Kindle??? and jump start the economy. (just look at the wellspring of jobs that are created every time there's a big tax cut for the rich) poor people need to get it together and start paying their fair share! clearly they aren't that poor if they have a refrigerator AND a microwave! they should just get a job at wal mart, wash windshields, make some trinkets or something. poor people must not have a sense of shame.
huffingtonpost and colbertnation. this is where you get your facts.
did i cite either of them as a source?no, actually i included the colbert skit because he has an eloquent way of relaying how absolutely ridiculous the idea is that poor people are ballers because they have a microwave and/or a refrigerator. your boys over at the heritage foundation came up with that and it's obviously fucking ridiculous to any thinking person. if you watch the show you'll notice that he gets a lot of his material from just showing the insanity of a lot of the ideas and statements of your fellow grand old partypeople. you should give it a whirl sometime, you might just find yourself laughing at some of the ideas you think you support.
no i don't get my information from the colbert report and huffington post. i merely added them as they are relevant to the discussion about rich people not wanting to pay taxes.. did i really have to explain this to an attorney?
Violent uprising is the only answer, and anything short of violence is a waste of time. And it's likely that the violence would have to be continuous to keep people from falling back into old patterns of exploitation. It's non-rich people's fault for not fighting back harder. Either fight back violently or continue to suffer.
Considering the attitudes and actions of the plutocrats and their enablers in congress this is unfortunately inevitable. You can only kick people when they're down and tell them they should like it for so long before something gives.
Violent uprising is the only answer, and anything short of violence is a waste of time. And it's likely that the violence would have to be continuous to keep people from falling back into old patterns of exploitation. It's non-rich people's fault for not fighting back harder. Either fight back violently or continue to suffer.
Considering the attitudes and actions of the plutocrats and their enablers in congress this is unfortunately inevitable. You can only kick people when they're down and tell them they should like it for so long before something gives.
Violent uprising is the only answer, and anything short of violence is a waste of time. And it's likely that the violence would have to be continuous to keep people from falling back into old patterns of exploitation. It's non-rich people's fault for not fighting back harder. Either fight back violently or continue to suffer.
Considering the attitudes and actions of the plutocrats and their enablers in congress this is unfortunately inevitable. You can only kick people when they're down and tell them they should like it for so long before something gives.
Dream on.
Yes you hopelessly dense libertarian, I dream of a violent revolution that will destabilize society so that the lives and future of my children are at risk. Kindly go fuck yourself.
I never understood this. What business owners pay their employees' salaries from their personal income?
They don't.
The fact is that most people in the U.S. live a lifestyle that is up to the level of their income.
I'm gonna use round numbers just for arguments sake.
Joe has a AGI of $200K. His taxes are raised 5% meaning he has $10K less to spend annually. No problem, he'll just make a couple of cuts here and there....take care of his own lawn instead of paying someone to do it.....not eat out at a restaurant as frequently as he does now. His quality of life remains the same and no one loses.....well, no one except for his lawn guy and the restaurant owners.
The owner of the company Joe works for has an income 20x that of Joe....his taxes are going up $200K....he too is going to make up for it somewhere else. He can cut his employees benefits, not invest in new equipment/technology, or cut the "fat" at his company by way of employees so that his increased profitability maintains the current level of his quality of life.
Anyone who thinks "rich" folks will pay increased taxes and not at least TRY to make up for it elsewhere hasn't spent much time working in corporate America.
Take $1.5 trillion from the "rich" and they'll take it back by any means possible at a cost to someone other than themselves.
This doesn't mean I support or am against higher taxes, it's just the way I see the consequences of doing so.
Violent uprising is the only answer, and anything short of violence is a waste of time. And it's likely that the violence would have to be continuous to keep people from falling back into old patterns of exploitation. It's non-rich people's fault for not fighting back harder. Either fight back violently or continue to suffer.
Considering the attitudes and actions of the plutocrats and their enablers in congress this is unfortunately inevitable. You can only kick people when they're down and tell them they should like it for so long before something gives.
Dream on.
Yes you hopelessly dense libertarian, I dream of a violent revolution that will destabilize society so that the lives and future of my children are at risk. Kindly go fuck yourself.
When people like you are in charge, the world will surely be a kinder and more egalitarian place.
And why do you want the lives and future of your children to be at risk?
Yes you hopelessly dense libertarian, I dream of a violent revolution that will destabilize society so that the lives and future of my children are at risk. Kindly go fuck yourself.
Yes you hopelessly dense libertarian, I dream of a violent revolution that will destabilize society so that the lives and future of my children are at risk. Kindly go fuck yourself.
Yes you hopelessly dense libertarian, I dream of a violent revolution that will destabilize society so that the lives and future of my children are at risk. Kindly go fuck yourself.
Violent uprising is the only answer, and anything short of violence is a waste of time. And it's likely that the violence would have to be continuous to keep people from falling back into old patterns of exploitation. It's non-rich people's fault for not fighting back harder. Either fight back violently or continue to suffer.
I never understood this. What business owners pay their employees' salaries from their personal income?
They don't.
The fact is that most people in the U.S. live a lifestyle that is up to the level of their income.
I'm gonna use round numbers just for arguments sake.
Joe has a AGI of $200K. His taxes are raised 5% meaning he has $10K less to spend annually. No problem, he'll just make a couple of cuts here and there....take care of his own lawn instead of paying someone to do it.....not eat out at a restaurant as frequently as he does now. His quality of life remains the same and no one loses.....well, no one except for his lawn guy and the restaurant owners.
The owner of the company Joe works for has an income 20x that of Joe....his taxes are going up $200K....he too is going to make up for it somewhere else. He can cut his employees benefits, not invest in new equipment/technology, or cut the "fat" at his company by way of employees so that his increased profitability maintains the current level of his quality of life.
Anyone who thinks "rich" folks will pay increased taxes and not at least TRY to make up for it elsewhere hasn't spent much time working in corporate America.
Take $1.5 trillion from the "rich" and they'll take it back by any means possible at a cost to someone other than themselves.
This doesn't mean I support or am against higher taxes, it's just the way I see the consequences of doing so.
Here's reality for reality's sake: Joe and his AGI of $200k are not going to see the rate rise on his income by 5% or any %. That's because the proposal on the table is that only those making > than $One million will have their rax rate increased. And even then, it's only a tax on the dollars that exceed the $ One million.
Indulge my example: Joe actually makes $1,025,000. Joe's taxes will go up only on that $25k. How much? A couple percentage points, maybe $3000. Good think Joe has that extra $One million lying around at the lower rate, so he doesn't have to tell the landscapers that they're fired.
I love how you guys are putting quotes around the word rich, as if a person making $One million a year is not ACTUALLY rich, but merely "rich". Very cute, and totally absurd.
When they raise the taxes on the 40% that don't pay any, get back to me.
I thought we had spending problem not a taxing problem? What difference does it make that they aren't paying income tax? I thought it wasn't problem? You guys can't even keep your story straight. Do we have a tax problem or not?
Over a trillion dollars in stimulus money and not a single job. Do you think that money just evaporated? It went into the pockets of the administration officials and its supporters. Remember all those "green jobs" that were supposed to be created/ Nothing. The firms pocketed the money and went bankrupt, but not before making a generous campaign contribution. And don't forget bloated federal agencies and their programs that facilitate plenty of graft for everyone. It's like looting. In just two short years the Democrats squandered their political capital for the next generation. Because they just can't help themselves. The second they get in control, they start spending and ramming through unpopular legislation. And when they can't legislate what they want, they sidestep it with regulations and executive orders. And now, after two years of "making jobs top priority" what do they come up with? More spending and more taxes. I hope you all enjoy the next 15 or so months making excuses for this boondoggle, because when Obama gets shown the door and the republicans gain in the House and probably take back the senate, you can all start payig this mess and you'll have absolutely nothing to show for it. But the democrats who get thrown out will all have nice consulting, lobbying and financial jobs thanks to you. Suckers.
I never understood this. What business owners pay their employees' salaries from their personal income?
They don't.
The fact is that most people in the U.S. live a lifestyle that is up to the level of their income.
I'm gonna use round numbers just for arguments sake.
Joe has a AGI of $200K. His taxes are raised 5% meaning he has $10K less to spend annually. No problem, he'll just make a couple of cuts here and there....take care of his own lawn instead of paying someone to do it.....not eat out at a restaurant as frequently as he does now. His quality of life remains the same and no one loses.....well, no one except for his lawn guy and the restaurant owners.
The owner of the company Joe works for has an income 20x that of Joe....his taxes are going up $200K....he too is going to make up for it somewhere else. He can cut his employees benefits, not invest in new equipment/technology, or cut the "fat" at his company by way of employees so that his increased profitability maintains the current level of his quality of life.
Anyone who thinks "rich" folks will pay increased taxes and not at least TRY to make up for it elsewhere hasn't spent much time working in corporate America.
Take $1.5 trillion from the "rich" and they'll take it back by any means possible at a cost to someone other than themselves.
This doesn't mean I support or am against higher taxes, it's just the way I see the consequences of doing so.
Here's reality for reality's sake: Joe and his AGI of $200k are not going to see the rate rise on his income by 5% or any %. That's because the proposal on the table is that only those making > than $One million will have their rax rate increased. And even then, it's only a tax on the dollars that exceed the $ One million.
Indulge my example: Joe actually makes $1,025,000. Joe's taxes will go up only on that $25k. How much? A couple percentage points, maybe $3000. Good think Joe has that extra $One million lying around at the lower rate, so he doesn't have to tell the landscapers that they're fired.
I love how you guys are putting quotes around the word rich, as if a person making $One million a year is not ACTUALLY rich, but merely "rich". Very cute, and totally absurd.
I hear you.....I used that example simply to show that if taxes go up, people who it effects will certainly do what they can to offset it. I don't think anyone would have a problem with $200K Joe putting his lawn guy out of work but when a gazillionaire does the same it's a problem.
Do you really think that the millionaires of this country will take a $1.5 trillion dollar tax hike and not pass their losses on to others?
BTW....not sure about why anyone else is doing it but I put "rich" in quotations because many people thing the top 10% wage earners are "rich".
BTWII.....the proposed tax reform will indeed have an impact on anyone who has an AGI of $200K or more..
Comments
Why are you using quotations around the word rich? Do you not think persons earning one million+ are rich?
No.
Yeah, because they couldn't just move to a country were there isn't rioting. Oh wait, yes they can. They're rich!
Think, McFly. Think.
Sure you would have. You post in every political thread, and then claim you don't.
Nobody asked you.
Exactly
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/393168/july-26-2011/-poor--in-america
"this isn't class warfare, it's math".
-world's most famous Muslim socialist
they're using the orwellian opposite day approach to this. sad thing is, the majority of our country is too dumb to question it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/10/the-rich-are-different-an_n_923458.html
huffingtonpost and colbertnation. this is where you get your facts.
I am still waiting for you to tell us who you supported in the Republican primaries 4 years ago.
Also, for the record, who are you supporting for 2012?
Which is why it's up to the rest of us to make sure they don't ONLY look out for themselves. Increase their taxes. Clinton levels were not oppressive.
did i cite either of them as a source?no, actually i included the colbert skit because he has an eloquent way of relaying how absolutely ridiculous the idea is that poor people are ballers because they have a microwave and/or a refrigerator. your boys over at the heritage foundation came up with that and it's obviously fucking ridiculous to any thinking person. if you watch the show you'll notice that he gets a lot of his material from just showing the insanity of a lot of the ideas and statements of your fellow grand old partypeople. you should give it a whirl sometime, you might just find yourself laughing at some of the ideas you think you support.
no i don't get my information from the colbert report and huffington post. i merely added them as they are relevant to the discussion about rich people not wanting to pay taxes.. did i really have to explain this to an attorney?
Considering the attitudes and actions of the plutocrats and their enablers in congress this is unfortunately inevitable. You can only kick people when they're down and tell them they should like it for so long before something gives.
Dream on.
Yes you hopelessly dense libertarian, I dream of a violent revolution that will destabilize society so that the lives and future of my children are at risk. Kindly go fuck yourself.
They don't.
The fact is that most people in the U.S. live a lifestyle that is up to the level of their income.
I'm gonna use round numbers just for arguments sake.
Joe has a AGI of $200K. His taxes are raised 5% meaning he has $10K less to spend annually. No problem, he'll just make a couple of cuts here and there....take care of his own lawn instead of paying someone to do it.....not eat out at a restaurant as frequently as he does now. His quality of life remains the same and no one loses.....well, no one except for his lawn guy and the restaurant owners.
The owner of the company Joe works for has an income 20x that of Joe....his taxes are going up $200K....he too is going to make up for it somewhere else. He can cut his employees benefits, not invest in new equipment/technology, or cut the "fat" at his company by way of employees so that his increased profitability maintains the current level of his quality of life.
Anyone who thinks "rich" folks will pay increased taxes and not at least TRY to make up for it elsewhere hasn't spent much time working in corporate America.
Take $1.5 trillion from the "rich" and they'll take it back by any means possible at a cost to someone other than themselves.
This doesn't mean I support or am against higher taxes, it's just the way I see the consequences of doing so.
When people like you are in charge, the world will surely be a kinder and more egalitarian place.
And why do you want the lives and future of your children to be at risk?
classy retort.
Here come the shitheads.
yet another great comeback, bro!
b/w
did you forget to take your medication today?
Couldn't disagree more.
Who makes up this 40%? CEOs and seniors?
Here's reality for reality's sake: Joe and his AGI of $200k are not going to see the rate rise on his income by 5% or any %. That's because the proposal on the table is that only those making > than $One million will have their rax rate increased. And even then, it's only a tax on the dollars that exceed the $ One million.
Indulge my example: Joe actually makes $1,025,000. Joe's taxes will go up only on that $25k. How much? A couple percentage points, maybe $3000. Good think Joe has that extra $One million lying around at the lower rate, so he doesn't have to tell the landscapers that they're fired.
I love how you guys are putting quotes around the word rich, as if a person making $One million a year is not ACTUALLY rich, but merely "rich". Very cute, and totally absurd.
I thought we had spending problem not a taxing problem? What difference does it make that they aren't paying income tax? I thought it wasn't problem? You guys can't even keep your story straight. Do we have a tax problem or not?
I hear you.....I used that example simply to show that if taxes go up, people who it effects will certainly do what they can to offset it. I don't think anyone would have a problem with $200K Joe putting his lawn guy out of work but when a gazillionaire does the same it's a problem.
Do you really think that the millionaires of this country will take a $1.5 trillion dollar tax hike and not pass their losses on to others?
BTW....not sure about why anyone else is doing it but I put "rich" in quotations because many people thing the top 10% wage earners are "rich".
BTWII.....the proposed tax reform will indeed have an impact on anyone who has an AGI of $200K or more..