New Jack Swing?

batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
edited August 2011 in Strut Central
I dont know what side of the fence im on. Im a little "confused".

Ive always thought NJS was specifically Teddy Riley's steez.
And yes many cats bit his style and did similar thangs, is the "entire" post 86 era of music "New jack Swing" or most Urban R&B considered New Jack Swing?

I thought there was R&B and there was NJS.

Just because you use Hip Hop samples and and drum machine doesnt make it NJS to me.

I dont really consider Jodeci NJS. Do you?

Blah Blah Blah.

This is coming off of listening to that Amalia - Art Slave who has NJS steez on the album.
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  Comments


  • Hotsauce84Hotsauce84 8,450 Posts
    DOPE.

  • Hotsauce84Hotsauce84 8,450 Posts
    Or to put it in Batmon's terms:

    DOPE?

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    Juice soundtrack has some swank NJS tunes.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Herm said:
    DOPE.

    is that a movie quote? im lost.

  • covecove 1,567 Posts
    D.O.P.E.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    The_Non said:
    Juice soundtrack has some swank NJS tunes.

    Aaron Hall - Done Be Afraid......R&B or New Jack Swing?

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    Yes, and a good tune too.

  • Hotsauce84Hotsauce84 8,450 Posts
    batmon said:


    Aaron Hall - Done Be Afraid......R&B or New Jack Swing?

    The_Non said:
    Yes

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    Herm said:
    batmon said:


    Aaron Hall - Done Be Afraid......R&B or New Jack Swing?

    The_Non said:
    Yes

    The thread is titled NJS ya bastard, that's what i meant! :D

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Hank Shocklee and G-Wiz produced Dont Be Afraid in 92.

  • Hotsauce84Hotsauce84 8,450 Posts
    The_Non said:
    Herm said:
    batmon said:


    Aaron Hall - Done Be Afraid......R&B or New Jack Swing?

    The_Non said:
    Yes

    The thread is titled NJS ya bastard, that's what i meant! :D

    Ha ha! I took that to mean "both," which is what I think it is.

  • batmon said:


    I thought there was R&B and there was NJS.
    Just because you use Hip Hop samples and and drum machine doesnt make it NJS to me.

    thats how i see it too.
    the way i remember, swingbeat started as a term for bouncier hip hop tunes like 'go see the doctor' and 'the b-fats'. all snappy snares, loud shuffly percussion & jerky synth b-lines. almost like hip hops friendlier little brother.
    rileys production on 'the show' maybe pointed to what lay ahead.
    so i'd say yes, late 80s RnB & swing are 2 different things. NJS is just a handy catch-all term but you knew that.

    EDIT - i guess if i had casually mentioned the later work of Guy, or maybe Keith Sweat or Levert, this post might have at least been acknowledged. no thing.

  • phongonephongone 1,652 Posts
    The_Non said:
    Juice soundtrack has some swank NJS tunes.

    That "Is It Good To You" track by Tammy Lucas is undisputably the best female NJS song evar.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    phongone said:
    The_Non said:
    Juice soundtrack has some swank NJS tunes.

    That "Is It Good To You" track by Tammy Lucas is undisputably the best female NJS song evar.

    Are u factoring in the New Jill Swing groups?

  • jleejlee 1,539 Posts
    .....on my nutz!!!

  • London circa 89-93 there were plenty of clubs whose music policy was RAP/SWING/RAGGA. As far as I was concerned, if an R&B tune had some uptempo hip hop drum programming, it was generally considered swing. I don't remember anybody policing the genre's boundries to rule out say Bell Biv Devoe or EnVogue because Teddy Riley wasn't involved.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Downstroke said:
    London circa 89-93 there were plenty of clubs whose music policy was RAP/SWING/RAGGA. As far as I was concerned, if an R&B tune had some uptempo hip hop drum programming, it was generally considered swing. I don't remember anybody policing the genre's boundries to rule out say Bell Biv Devoe or EnVogue because Teddy Riley wasn't involved.

    U dont hear the structural differences between Hold On, My Perrogative, and Poison?

  • batmon said:
    U dont hear the structural differences between Hold On, My Perrogative, and Poison?

    Yeah, course there's differences, just like Guy's Teddy's Jam and Wrecks n Effect's NJS, although few would argue they're not New Jack Swing tracks. TR being the common thread, but during that period hop hop meets R&B thing was everywhere, and I guess lazy journalism dubbed it all Swingbeat. I don't remember many folks resisting the label (unlike the trip hop dudes a few years later). As far as I remember though, the title New Jack Swing was played out by about 93-94 anyway.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Downstroke said:
    batmon said:
    U dont hear the structural differences between Hold On, My Perrogative, and Poison?

    Yeah, course there's differences, just like Guy's Teddy's Jam and Wrecks n Effect's NJS, although few would argue they're not New Jack Swing tracks. TR being the common thread, but during that period hop hop meets R&B thing was everywhere, and I guess lazy journalism dubbed it all Swingbeat. I don't remember many folks resisting the label (unlike the trip hop dudes a few years later). As far as I remember though, the title New Jack Swing was played out by about 93-94 anyway.

    I have NJS on its last legs on Micheal Jackson's Dangerous in '91. By then there were too many variants to even place that stamp on alot of what was out.

    R.Kelly &The; Public Anouncement - Vibe (single) in '92 sounded like Aaron Hall/TR/Guy and them but the music wasnt the same as seminal NJS shit.

    I just think its suspect to lump all Urban acts w/ a Hip Hop/R&B mix as NJS.
    Some stuff had that street edge and some of the shit was just formulaic jive.

    Jade - Dont Walk Away doesnt sound like Bobby Brown or Heavy -D shit to me.

    Im not trying to confine the sound to JUST Teddy Riley, but shit can be compartmentalized..IMO.

  • Yeah, if ever anyone mentions NJS, the first thing that comes to mind for me is TR & Guy, Keith Sweat's first album, Al B Sure and I suppose Bobby Brown as well. R Kelly's Vibe definitely sounded like a NJS record to me, even though when that dropped the genre had shifted a bit from the late 80's heyday, but still it wasn't like it was some new genre he'd cooked up there. I'd say the same of Jodeci, same sort of harmonies and shit, just with a bit tougher sounding production.

    I kind of pigeon holed any commercial sounding R&B with hip hop beats as the same genre back then anyway, mainly because it was so prevalent on the radio and in the clubs back then. I remember the only way you'd get girls to go to a hip hop night back then was on the promise there would be a NJS/R&B set played.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts


    Jodeci's debut single - '91

    New Jack Swing?
    New Jack Swing-ish?
    Urban R&B?
    Proto Hip Hop Soul?

  • batmon said:


    Jodeci's debut single - '91

    New Jack Swing?
    New Jack Swing-ish?
    Urban R&B?
    Proto Hip Hop Soul?

    Deifinitely NJS, especially that drum fill before the song's hook kicks in, and those JB horn stabs.

  • jamesjames chicago 1,863 Posts
    Mek_Jagger said:
    batmon said:


    I thought there was R&B and there was NJS.
    Just because you use Hip Hop samples and and drum machine doesnt make it NJS to me.

    thats how i see it too.
    the way i remember, swingbeat started as a term for bouncier hip hop tunes like 'go see the doctor' and 'the b-fats'. all snappy snares, loud shuffly percussion & jerky synth b-lines. almost like hip hops friendlier little brother.
    rileys production on 'the show' maybe pointed to what lay ahead.
    so i'd say yes, late 80s RnB & swing are 2 different things. NJS is just a handy catch-all term but you knew that.
    This post makes me both happy and sad: Happy because it's concise and insightful, and sad because it underscores how atrophied dudes' ability to, you know, describe what music sounds like has become. If there were more posts like this, soulstrut would be better, and theoretically-interesting threads like this would get farther quicker. I remain vexed by the number of dudes that will will take the long, boring way home--putting a zillion youtubes and umpteen posts dickering about timelines, pedigree, and taxonomy, etc.--rather than just taking a minute to describe a particular drum sound or sampling style. Shit makes no sense.

    That bit of parade-raining aside, I'd say that New Jack Swing is basically go-go music with the live band replaced by hip-hop informed programming. Considering that Teddy was an NYC dude with strong DC/VA ties, it seems pretty straightforward.

    Not the most orthodox example, but a favorite of mine is Full Force's "Type Rider," previously discussed here on soulstrut, but perhaps lost in the server shuffle.

    On the small-label tip, the extended version of "Try Me" by Chris McDaniels (Memphis, I think?) gets real nice.

    And to me, Teddy is in the same rarefied league as The Latin Rascals: within a certain time period (and up to a certain price point), I'll buy anything with his name on it pretty much automatically, even if it's just some bullshit pop bullshit. I mean, dude's bonus beats on the Jane Child twelve-inch have the same intro pattern as "Looking At The Front Door," you know? It's hard not to like.


  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    I hear alot of Gap Band in Teddy's Guy stuff, along with Charlie Wilson channeled by Aaron Hall.

  • batmon said:
    I hear alot of Gap Band in Teddy's Guy stuff, along with Charlie Wilson channeled by Aaron Hall.

    nobody asked you about the gap band

    a new smiley is needed.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Mek_Jagger said:
    batmon said:
    I hear alot of Gap Band in Teddy's Guy stuff, along with Charlie Wilson channeled by Aaron Hall.

    nobody asked you about the gap band

    haha.....u want some tonight? im tipsey bitch.......


  • ^ i see what you did here. and bonus points for multiple elbows.

  • //////

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,905 Posts
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