not with you. if i wanted to argue politics with someone I can walk down the hall and find a dozen people better at it than any of you. I want to talk about music not some stupid non-news story about a crackpot old lady being tooled by some anti-semites.
not with you. if i wanted to argue politics with someone I can walk down the hall and find a dozen people better at it than any of you. I want to talk about music not some stupid non-news story about a crackpot old lady being tooled by some anti-semites.[/b]
Whoooooaaaaaaa......what (as they say) the fuck[/b]?
Sell that right-wing, Drudge Report, Fox News garbage somewhere else junior.
I am too easily distracted to follow this thread, but I saw a segment on CNN about a platoon in Iraq whose sole purpose is to patrol for makeshift car bombs/portable incendiary devices all fucking day long. Every person/car/vehicle/cart that comes to their blockade is a potential bomb and they do house-to-house raids and every situation could literally blow up.
All I could think was "how the hell do you win this thing?"
not with you. if i wanted to argue politics with someone I can walk down the hall and find a dozen people better at it than any of you. I want to talk about music not some stupid non-news story about a crackpot old lady being tooled by some anti-semites.[/b]
Whoooooaaaaaaa......what (as they say) the fuck[/b]?
Sell that right-wing, Drudge Report, Fox News garbage somewhere else junior.
Hmmm.. I'm not jewish or a REP. But as an outsider canadian looking in, her statement that somehow getting "Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism" is kinda
not with you. if i wanted to argue politics with someone I can walk down the hall and find a dozen people better at it than any of you. I want to talk about music not some stupid non-news story about a crackpot old lady being tooled by some anti-semites.[/b]
Whoooooaaaaaaa......what (as they say) the fuck[/b]?
Sell that right-wing, Drudge Report, Fox News garbage somewhere else junior.
Further on the post below, Not a Saint, let's take a look at the horse Cindy Sheehan has tied her cart to, the Crawford Peace House [Note: The CPH people have deleted the material mentioned in this post from their page, but I have the original. Here is the Google cache. See the update at the bottom of this post.]. They claim to be a house of peace, and Cindy Sheehan's agenda would seem to be centered on the War in Iraq, but even a cursory look at the CPH's web page shows a clearly different agenda. As I write this, the word "Iraq" appears on CPH's front page a total of ONE time. The number of times a certain eastern Mediterranean country's name appears? Seventeen times. And the single essay on the page is about...Iraq? No. It is about the world's true demon, root of all evil, Israel.
The first photo is one of a Mr. Eugene Bird giving a speech with a Palestinian flag waving next to him. Who is Mr. Bird? According to Honest Reporting, Bird is President of the Paul Findlay founded anti-Semitic, anti-Israel Council for the National Interest, a group which seeks "to restore a political environment in America in which voters and their elected officials are free from the undue influence and pressure of a foreign country, namely Israel." He also writes regularly for the Saudi shilling, and need I mention anti-Israel, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs -- where old Arabist diplomats who've gone native go to die.
(read the whole thing)
and here:
In her own words in an article at Counterpunch.
???Iraq is not free. You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you???ll stop the terrorism,??? she exclaimed.
As for being a crackpot, just look at the pictures of her parading around in costume with a big puppet dove and fake tombstones.
And by the way, if you think we are fighting Israel's war, you're wrong. They have been fighting our war for the last 40 years.
not with you. if i wanted to argue politics with someone I can walk down the hall and find a dozen people better at it than any of you. I want to talk about music not some stupid non-news story about a crackpot old lady being tooled by some anti-semites.[/b]
Whoooooaaaaaaa......what (as they say) the fuck[/b]?
Sell that right-wing, Drudge Report, Fox News garbage somewhere else junior.
Further on the post below, Not a Saint, let's take a look at the horse Cindy Sheehan has tied her cart to, the Crawford Peace House [Note: The CPH people have deleted the material mentioned in this post from their page, but I have the original. Here is the Google cache. See the update at the bottom of this post.]. They claim to be a house of peace, and Cindy Sheehan's agenda would seem to be centered on the War in Iraq, but even a cursory look at the CPH's web page shows a clearly different agenda. As I write this, the word "Iraq" appears on CPH's front page a total of ONE time. The number of times a certain eastern Mediterranean country's name appears? Seventeen times. And the single essay on the page is about...Iraq? No. It is about the world's true demon, root of all evil, Israel.
The first photo is one of a Mr. Eugene Bird giving a speech with a Palestinian flag waving next to him. Who is Mr. Bird? According to Honest Reporting, Bird is President of the Paul Findlay founded anti-Semitic, anti-Israel Council for the National Interest, a group which seeks "to restore a political environment in America in which voters and their elected officials are free from the undue influence and pressure of a foreign country, namely Israel." He also writes regularly for the Saudi shilling, and need I mention anti-Israel, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs -- where old Arabist diplomats who've gone native go to die.
(read the whole thing)
and here:
In her own words in an article at Counterpunch.
???Iraq is not free. You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you???ll stop the terrorism,??? she exclaimed.
As for being a crackpot, just look at the pictures of her parading around in costume with a big puppet dove and fake tombstones.
And by the way, if you think we are fighting Israel's war, you're wrong. They have been fighting our war for the last 40 years.
Is this Vitamin? if not, you guys are definitely working the same side of the ideological street (that's Crank Street near the intersection of Out Of Your Fucking Mind Blvd. btw...)
That's quite a crazy, right wing nutjob site you've linked to there. We've been over this multiple times here, but criticism of Israel is not inherently anti-Semetic.
hey - somebody deleted the word "bitch" from under the gold star, where it says welcome to soulstrut.
twas my own doing. Thought it was a little harsh so I took it out. Damn, it was only up there for a few seconds, you got a man on the inside I take it (or you hit the refresh button really fast. Anyway, Im not going start name calling over the internet. Happy little gold stars proove my point just fine.
George Bush should not talk to Cindy Sheehan. He should listen to her. Nancy Hiss
We all should listen to Cindy Sheehan:
Dear Friends and Supporters, George Bush said speaking about the dreadful loss of life in Iraq in August: (08/03/05): "We have to honor the sacrifices of the fallen by completing the mission." "The families of the fallen can be assured that they died for a noble cause."
In reaction to these two asinine and hurtful statements, members of Gold Star Families for Peace (GSFP) are going to George's vacation home in Crawford, Tx this Saturday, August 6th at 11:00 am to confront him on these two statements.
1) We want our loved ones sacrifices to be honored by bringing our nation's sons and daughters home from the travesty that is Iraq IMMEDIATELY, since this war is based on horrendous lies and deceptions. Just because our children are dead, why would we want any more families to suffer the same pain and devastation that we are.
2) We would like for him to explain this "noble cause" to us and ask him why Jenna and Barbara are not in harm's way, if the cause is so noble.
3) If George is not ready to send the twins, then he should bring our troops home immediately. We will demand a speedy withdrawal.
GSFP will be joined by members of Veteran's for Peace (VFP), Military Families Speak Out (MFSO), Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW), Code Pink, and Crawford Peace House.
We GSFP members will not leave until we get answers from George Bush. We deserve and expect him to welcome us with answers to as why our loved ones are dead.
Every worker for peace, every worker for justice, every person who wants our country back are welcomed to join us on Saturday. Show George Bush that we mean business. Be there to support us family members who have already been through so much. We are fighting for our country, our world, especially the children.
Crawford is about 2 hours from Dallas where the VFP Convention is being held this weekend. There will be car pools from the convention.
HONOR OUR LOVED ONE'S SACRIFICES: BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!!!
Bring water and hats...we plan on staying until we are arrested or satisfied with the answers. (I am betting on jail).
Please pass this email on to your friends, lists, and media. For more info: call Cindy Sheehan 707-365-7750
Classy. So I guess logic dictates that she must be a David Duke supporter? Or were you implying something else? And I guess the fact that her husband files for divorce means she's wrong too? Or maybe he's just a jackass?
I find it really disgusting the way the right is attacking this woman, as if confronting Bush on any of his bullshit is tantamount to treason.
Fuck him, fuck his stupid war, and fuck all of those that have fallen into lockstep behind him (bunch of lemmings).
Never said she was a David Duke supporter, quit using those mcgriddles for glasses larry, i think its funny that Duke has jumped on her "peace train" after she maid her comments about israel, and the thing about her husband was interesting but really has nothing to to do with nothing...
hitch is
Cindy Sheehan's Sinister Piffle What's wrong with her Crawford protest. By Christopher Hitchens Posted Monday, Aug. 15, 2005, at 11:50 AM PT [/b]
Here is an unambivalent statement: "The moral authority of parents who bury children killed in Iraq is absolute."
And, now, here's another:
Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full well that my son, my family, this nation and this world were betrayed by George Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agendas after 9/11. We were told that we were attacked on 9/11 because the terrorists hate our freedoms and democracy ??? not for the real reason, because the Arab Muslims who attacked us hate our middle-eastern foreign policy.
Her knack for PR doesn't make her argument persuasive
The first statement comes from Maureen Dowd, in her New York Times column of Aug. 10. The second statement comes from Cindy Sheehan, whose son Casey was killed in Iraq last year. It was sent to the editors of ABC's Nightline on March 15. In her article, Dowd was arguing that Sheehan's moral authority was absolute.
I am at a complete loss to see how these two positions can be made compatible. Sheehan has obviously taken a short course in the Michael Moore/Ramsey Clark school of Iraq analysis and has not succeeded in making it one atom more elegant or persuasive. I dare say that her "moral authority" to do this is indeed absolute, if we agree for a moment on the weird idea that moral authority is required to adopt overtly political positions, but then so is my "moral" right to say that she is spouting sinister piffle. Suppose I had lost a child in this war. Would any of my critics say that this gave me any extra authority? I certainly would not ask or expect them to do so. Why, then, should anyone grant them such a privilege?
Sheehan has met the president before and has favored us with two accounts of the meeting, one fairly warm and the other distinctly cold. I have no means of knowing which mood reflected her real state of mind, but she now thinks she is owed another session with him, presumably in order to tell him what she asserted to the Nightline team. In pursuit of this, she has set up camp near Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, and announced that she will not leave until she gets some more face-time with our chief executive. This qualifies her to be described by Dowd as "a 48-year-old Californian with a knack for P.R." Well, I think I have to concede that if Dowd says you have a knack for PR, you have acquired one even if you didn't have one before. (I am not entirely certain, for example, that the above letter to ABC News would count as a delicate illustration of the said "knack.")
The president has compromised by sending his national-security adviser, Stephen Hadley, down that Crawford road to meet the PR-knackish Cindy. Not good enough, exclaims Dowd. Hadley was pro-war and has even been described as a neocon! Clearly, then, the Sheehan demand is liable to expand the more it is met. President Bush must either find a senior staff member who opposes the war and then send him or her down the track to see if that will do. Or else he must, like the Emperor Henry of old, stage his own Canossa and attend on her himself, abject apologies at the ready. After all, we mustn't forget that we are dealing???as was that emperor in his dispute with Pope Gregory???with "an absolute moral authority."
What dreary sentimental nonsense this all is, and how much space has been wasted on it. Most irritating is the snide idea that the president is "on vacation" and thus idly ignoring his suffering subjects, when the truth is that the members of the media???not known for their immunity to the charm of Martha's Vineyard or Cape Cod in the month of August???are themselves lazing away the season with a soft-centered nonstory that practically, as we like to say in the trade, "writes itself." Anyway, Sheehan now says that if need be she will "follow" the president "to Washington," so I don't think the holiday sneer has much life left in it.
There are, in fact, some principles involved here. Any citizen has the right to petition the president for redress of grievance, or for that matter to insult him to his face. But the potential number of such people is very large, and you don't have the right to cut in line by having so much free time that you can set up camp near his drive. Then there is the question of civilian control over the military, which is an authority that one could indeed say should be absolute. The military and its relatives have no extra claim on the chief executive's ear. Indeed, it might be said that they have less claim than the rest of us, since they have voluntarily sworn an oath to obey and carry out orders. Most presidents in time of war have made an exception in the case of the bereaved???Lincoln's letter to the mother of two dead Union soldiers (at the time, it was thought that she had lost five sons) is a famous instance???but the job there is one of comfort and reassurance, and this has already been discharged in the Sheehan case. If that stricken mother had been given an audience and had risen up to say that Lincoln had broken his past election pledges and sought a wider and more violent war with the Confederacy, his aides would have been quite right to show her the door and to tell her that she was out of order.
Finally, I think one must deny to anyone the right to ventriloquize the dead. Casey Sheehan joined up as a responsible adult volunteer. Are we so sure that he would have wanted to see his mother acquiring "a knack for P.R." and announcing that he was killed in a war for a Jewish cabal? (a claim that has brought David Duke flying to Ms. Sheehan's side.) This is just as objectionable, on logical as well as moral grounds, as the old pro-war argument that the dead "must not have died in vain." I distrust anyone who claims to speak for the fallen, and I distrust even more the hysterical noncombatants who exploit the grief of those who have to bury them.
Yes, soldiers make a commitment when they sign up.
No, it does not bar family members from pointing out that their family member was murder by a goverment that is engaging in an illegal and immoral war.
Cindy Sheehan is actively involved in Gold Star Familys For Peace. Many other peace organizations and activist have rallied to her side. She is not responsible for their statements. On the other hand George Bush is responsible for statements and actions.
The right, and others who are easily fooled, will argue about her, background, her family, the people around her, why her son signed up, what it means to be a soldier and the role of US support for Israel. The point of all this argueing is so Cindy Sheehan can't be heard.
George Bush should not talk to Cindy Sheehan. He should listen to her. Nancy Hiss
We all should listen to Cindy Sheehan:
Dear Friends and Supporters, George Bush said speaking about the dreadful loss of life in Iraq in August: (08/03/05): "We have to honor the sacrifices of the fallen by completing the mission." "The families of the fallen can be assured that they died for a noble cause."
In reaction to these two asinine and hurtful statements, members of Gold Star Families for Peace (GSFP) are going to George's vacation home in Crawford, Tx this Saturday, August 6th at 11:00 am to confront him on these two statements.
1) We want our loved ones sacrifices to be honored by bringing our nation's sons and daughters home from the travesty that is Iraq IMMEDIATELY, since this war is based on horrendous lies and deceptions. Just because our children are dead, why would we want any more families to suffer the same pain and devastation that we are.
2) We would like for him to explain this "noble cause" to us and ask him why Jenna and Barbara are not in harm's way, if the cause is so noble.
3) If George is not ready to send the twins, then he should bring our troops home immediately. We will demand a speedy withdrawal.
GSFP will be joined by members of Veteran's for Peace (VFP), Military Families Speak Out (MFSO), Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW), Code Pink, and Crawford Peace House.
We GSFP members will not leave until we get answers from George Bush. We deserve and expect him to welcome us with answers to as why our loved ones are dead.
Every worker for peace, every worker for justice, every person who wants our country back are welcomed to join us on Saturday. Show George Bush that we mean business. Be there to support us family members who have already been through so much. We are fighting for our country, our world, especially the children.
Crawford is about 2 hours from Dallas where the VFP Convention is being held this weekend. There will be car pools from the convention.
HONOR OUR LOVED ONE'S SACRIFICES: BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!!!
Bring water and hats...we plan on staying until we are arrested or satisfied with the answers. (I am betting on jail).
Please pass this email on to your friends, lists, and media. For more info: call Cindy Sheehan 707-365-7750
I'm not trying to nit pick here... But didn't she already talk with him and tell him what she wanted? Mind you, it wasn't a huge amount of time...
I can't even get a doctor to talk to me (For a second time) about how my grand mother died and ask questions.
If these statements and writing blogs and protesting outside until she gets her way is how she wants to deal with her sons death, more power to her.
For real. She already got to talk to him once. And, she refers to him as "George," have a little respect for the office. You think her son would address him as "George" I don't. And as for that bring the troops home now rant, I love this one.
IT IS FINALLY TIME TO EXIT THE OLDSMOBILE Guest Commentary by Senator Edward M. Kennedy Like all Americans, I had high hopes for the future of the Oldsmobile and its passengers, as we struggle against the onrushing water and its poorly-designed shoulder belts. But as claustrophobia sets in we must begin to sober up and face the truth: hope is no longer an option.
It is time for us to recognize that our continued presence in this volatile region is a hindrance to the Oldsmobile and its people. Rather than helping the situation we are further weighing down the Oldsmobile, causing it to sink faster and faster into the quagmire of Chappaquiddick Bay, creating a dangerous situation for both ourselves as well as its passengers who are desperately seeking an air pocket in which to start a better life.
That is why I believe we have reached the point where we must take a deep breath and immediately depart the Oldsmobile. We must seek through the watery darkness and release the belt latch of madness that has kept us here, and reach out for a sane and honorable window crank.
Obviously there will be passengers in the Oldsmobile who do not want us to leave, and will likely try to grasp and grab at our feet as we depart. While we wish them success, it is critical that these passengers quickly learn independence and self-determination. The most effective way to teach them is through example, and with a vigorous kick-off. Let us hope they will cherish our shoes as a lasting legacy of our commitment to liberty.
And, after we return to the safety of the American shore and phone our lawyer, we must begin to ask the hard questions. How did we get here? The sad answer is that we were sold a lie by Gene Quinlan of Hyannis port Oldsmobile-Buick-GMC. We were told that this Oldsmobile had the Delta 88 Royale option package with 6-way electric seats. We were told that they were sold out of the new '69 Toronado. We were given a choice of a burgundy vinyl roof, but never given an exit strategy. We were told, repeatedly, that the Oldsmobile was waterproof and had an automatic pilot system. In short, Gene Quinlan sold us a lie.
There will be ample time for us to reflect on the mistakes and lies of the Oldsmobile misadventure, and hold those who were responsible to account. But that is for another day. Now we must focus our energy on getting out before it is too late.
Classy. So I guess logic dictates that she must be a David Duke supporter? Or were you implying something else? And I guess the fact that her husband files for divorce means she's wrong too? Or maybe he's just a jackass?
I find it really disgusting the way the right is attacking this woman, as if confronting Bush on any of his bullshit is tantamount to treason.
Fuck him, fuck his stupid war, and fuck all of those that have fallen into lockstep behind him (bunch of lemmings).
Never said she was a David Duke supporter, quit using those mcgriddles for glasses larry, i think its funny that Duke has jumped on her "peace train" after she maid her comments about israel, and the thing about her husband was interesting but really has nothing to to do with nothing...
hitch is
Cindy Sheehan's Sinister Piffle What's wrong with her Crawford protest. By Christopher Hitchens Posted Monday, Aug. 15, 2005, at 11:50 AM PT [/b]
Here is an unambivalent statement: "The moral authority of parents who bury children killed in Iraq is absolute."
And, now, here's another:
Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full well that my son, my family, this nation and this world were betrayed by George Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agendas after 9/11. We were told that we were attacked on 9/11 because the terrorists hate our freedoms and democracy ??? not for the real reason, because the Arab Muslims who attacked us hate our middle-eastern foreign policy.
Her knack for PR doesn't make her argument persuasive
The first statement comes from Maureen Dowd, in her New York Times column of Aug. 10. The second statement comes from Cindy Sheehan, whose son Casey was killed in Iraq last year. It was sent to the editors of ABC's Nightline on March 15. In her article, Dowd was arguing that Sheehan's moral authority was absolute.
I am at a complete loss to see how these two positions can be made compatible. Sheehan has obviously taken a short course in the Michael Moore/Ramsey Clark school of Iraq analysis and has not succeeded in making it one atom more elegant or persuasive. I dare say that her "moral authority" to do this is indeed absolute, if we agree for a moment on the weird idea that moral authority is required to adopt overtly political positions, but then so is my "moral" right to say that she is spouting sinister piffle. Suppose I had lost a child in this war. Would any of my critics say that this gave me any extra authority? I certainly would not ask or expect them to do so. Why, then, should anyone grant them such a privilege?
Sheehan has met the president before and has favored us with two accounts of the meeting, one fairly warm and the other distinctly cold. I have no means of knowing which mood reflected her real state of mind, but she now thinks she is owed another session with him, presumably in order to tell him what she asserted to the Nightline team. In pursuit of this, she has set up camp near Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, and announced that she will not leave until she gets some more face-time with our chief executive. This qualifies her to be described by Dowd as "a 48-year-old Californian with a knack for P.R." Well, I think I have to concede that if Dowd says you have a knack for PR, you have acquired one even if you didn't have one before. (I am not entirely certain, for example, that the above letter to ABC News would count as a delicate illustration of the said "knack.")
The president has compromised by sending his national-security adviser, Stephen Hadley, down that Crawford road to meet the PR-knackish Cindy. Not good enough, exclaims Dowd. Hadley was pro-war and has even been described as a neocon! Clearly, then, the Sheehan demand is liable to expand the more it is met. President Bush must either find a senior staff member who opposes the war and then send him or her down the track to see if that will do. Or else he must, like the Emperor Henry of old, stage his own Canossa and attend on her himself, abject apologies at the ready. After all, we mustn't forget that we are dealing???as was that emperor in his dispute with Pope Gregory???with "an absolute moral authority."
What dreary sentimental nonsense this all is, and how much space has been wasted on it. Most irritating is the snide idea that the president is "on vacation" and thus idly ignoring his suffering subjects, when the truth is that the members of the media???not known for their immunity to the charm of Martha's Vineyard or Cape Cod in the month of August???are themselves lazing away the season with a soft-centered nonstory that practically, as we like to say in the trade, "writes itself." Anyway, Sheehan now says that if need be she will "follow" the president "to Washington," so I don't think the holiday sneer has much life left in it.
There are, in fact, some principles involved here. Any citizen has the right to petition the president for redress of grievance, or for that matter to insult him to his face. But the potential number of such people is very large, and you don't have the right to cut in line by having so much free time that you can set up camp near his drive. Then there is the question of civilian control over the military, which is an authority that one could indeed say should be absolute. The military and its relatives have no extra claim on the chief executive's ear. Indeed, it might be said that they have less claim than the rest of us, since they have voluntarily sworn an oath to obey and carry out orders. Most presidents in time of war have made an exception in the case of the bereaved???Lincoln's letter to the mother of two dead Union soldiers (at the time, it was thought that she had lost five sons) is a famous instance???but the job there is one of comfort and reassurance, and this has already been discharged in the Sheehan case. If that stricken mother had been given an audience and had risen up to say that Lincoln had broken his past election pledges and sought a wider and more violent war with the Confederacy, his aides would have been quite right to show her the door and to tell her that she was out of order.
Finally, I think one must deny to anyone the right to ventriloquize the dead. Casey Sheehan joined up as a responsible adult volunteer. Are we so sure that he would have wanted to see his mother acquiring "a knack for P.R." and announcing that he was killed in a war for a Jewish cabal? (a claim that has brought David Duke flying to Ms. Sheehan's side.) This is just as objectionable, on logical as well as moral grounds, as the old pro-war argument that the dead "must not have died in vain." I distrust anyone who claims to speak for the fallen, and I distrust even more the hysterical noncombatants who exploit the grief of those who have to bury them.
Has "nothing to do with nothing" yet still manages to make it's way into the convo via sly, Drudge-esque inference. If you didn't mean to make the association, why mention it at all? Because if you throw enough crap at someone, some of it is bound to stick.
BTW, Hitch is an a-hole. Gone from one of the great minds of his generation to a low-rent administration apologist in a few short years. He comes off like some sodden Oxford don with his head up his ass. Just sad.
Has "nothing to do with nothing" yet still manages to make it's way into the convo via sly, Drudge-esque inference. If you didn't mean to make the association, why mention it at all? Because if you throw enough crap at someone, some of it is bound to stick.
BTW, Hitch is an a-hole. Gone from one of the great minds of his generation to a low-rent administration apologist in a few short years. He comes off like some sodden Oxford don with his head up his ass. Just sad.
you explained that one away. More of the evil Matt Drudge. Is that how you dismiss everything you don't agree with, as Drudge inspired?
For real. She already got to talk to him once. And, she refers to him as "George," have a little respect for the office. You think her son would address him as "George" I don't. And as for that bring the troops home now rant, I love this one.
IT IS FINALLY TIME TO EXIT THE OLDSMOBILE Guest Commentary by Senator Edward M. Kennedy Like all Americans, I had high hopes for the future of the Oldsmobile and its passengers, as we struggle against the onrushing water and its poorly-designed shoulder belts. But as claustrophobia sets in we must begin to sober up and face the truth: hope is no longer an option.
It is time for us to recognize that our continued presence in this volatile region is a hindrance to the Oldsmobile and its people. Rather than helping the situation we are further weighing down the Oldsmobile, causing it to sink faster and faster into the quagmire of Chappaquiddick Bay, creating a dangerous situation for both ourselves as well as its passengers who are desperately seeking an air pocket in which to start a better life.
That is why I believe we have reached the point where we must take a deep breath and immediately depart the Oldsmobile. We must seek through the watery darkness and release the belt latch of madness that has kept us here, and reach out for a sane and honorable window crank.
Obviously there will be passengers in the Oldsmobile who do not want us to leave, and will likely try to grasp and grab at our feet as we depart. While we wish them success, it is critical that these passengers quickly learn independence and self-determination. The most effective way to teach them is through example, and with a vigorous kick-off. Let us hope they will cherish our shoes as a lasting legacy of our commitment to liberty.
And, after we return to the safety of the American shore and phone our lawyer, we must begin to ask the hard questions. How did we get here? The sad answer is that we were sold a lie by Gene Quinlan of Hyannis port Oldsmobile-Buick-GMC. We were told that this Oldsmobile had the Delta 88 Royale option package with 6-way electric seats. We were told that they were sold out of the new '69 Toronado. We were given a choice of a burgundy vinyl roof, but never given an exit strategy. We were told, repeatedly, that the Oldsmobile was waterproof and had an automatic pilot system. In short, Gene Quinlan sold us a lie.
There will be ample time for us to reflect on the mistakes and lies of the Oldsmobile misadventure, and hold those who were responsible to account. But that is for another day. Now we must focus our energy on getting out before it is too late.
Bush (via his actions) himself appears to have little or no respect for "the office". And a Chappaquiddick joke? What are you, a 65 year old, cigar chomping Fox News viewer? Jeebus....
Has "nothing to do with nothing" yet still manages to make it's way into the convo via sly, Drudge-esque inference. If you didn't mean to make the association, why mention it at all? Because if you throw enough crap at someone, some of it is bound to stick.
BTW, Hitch is an a-hole. Gone from one of the great minds of his generation to a low-rent administration apologist in a few short years. He comes off like some sodden Oxford don with his head up his ass. Just sad.
you explained that one away. More of the evil Matt Drudge. Is that how you dismiss everything you don't agree with, as Drudge inspired?
OK, I suppose it's a coincidence all of the stuff you keep dragging in here appears on Drudge's front page? I suppose you could have gotten it out of some other right wing sewer like Free Republic or LGF, but I don't think so.
not with you. if i wanted to argue politics with someone I can walk down the hall and find a dozen people better at it than any of you. I want to talk about music not some stupid non-news story about a crackpot old lady being tooled by some anti-semites.[/b]
Whoooooaaaaaaa......what (as they say) the fuck[/b]?
Sell that right-wing, Drudge Report, Fox News garbage somewhere else junior.
The right, and others who are easily fooled, will argue about her, background, her family, the people around her, why her son signed up, what it means to be a soldier and the role of US support for Israel. The point of all this argueing is so Cindy Sheehan can't be heard.
The right, and others who are easily fooled, will argue about her, background, her family, the people around her, why her son signed up, what it means to be a soldier and the role of US support for Israel. The point of all this argueing is so Cindy Sheehan can't be heard.
Shut up and listen to her.
well sum up what she is saying, other than her belief that we are only protecting israel, what else is she saying that so urgently needs to be heard?
Comments
yes, when you consumate your argument with that - all that came before it might as well be invisible.
Whoooooaaaaaaa......what (as they say) the fuck[/b]?
Sell that right-wing, Drudge Report, Fox News garbage somewhere else junior.
All I could think was "how the hell do you win this thing?"
At least there was more than :this thread is worthless and you all seem stupid[/b].
If that's the level of discourse down the hall, you're either posting from a Junior High School or RNC headquarters...
welcome to soulstrut.
Hmmm.. I'm not jewish or a REP. But as an outsider canadian looking in, her statement that somehow getting "Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism" is kinda
But whatever...
In other news...
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/337720p-288269c.html
As for being an antisemite.
http://www.solomonia.com/blog/archives/006397.shtml
A Judenhass Horse
Further on the post below, Not a Saint, let's take a look at the horse Cindy Sheehan has tied her cart to, the Crawford Peace House [Note: The CPH people have deleted the material mentioned in this post from their page, but I have the original. Here is the Google cache. See the update at the bottom of this post.]. They claim to be a house of peace, and Cindy Sheehan's agenda would seem to be centered on the War in Iraq, but even a cursory look at the CPH's web page shows a clearly different agenda. As I write this, the word "Iraq" appears on CPH's front page a total of ONE time. The number of times a certain eastern Mediterranean country's name appears? Seventeen times. And the single essay on the page is about...Iraq? No. It is about the world's true demon, root of all evil, Israel.
The first photo is one of a Mr. Eugene Bird giving a speech with a Palestinian flag waving next to him. Who is Mr. Bird? According to Honest Reporting, Bird is President of the Paul Findlay founded anti-Semitic, anti-Israel Council for the National Interest, a group which seeks "to restore a political environment in America in which voters and their elected officials are free from the undue influence and pressure of a foreign country, namely Israel." He also writes regularly for the Saudi shilling, and need I mention anti-Israel, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs -- where old Arabist diplomats who've gone native go to die.
(read the whole thing)
and here:
In her own words in an article at Counterpunch.
???Iraq is not free. You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you???ll stop the terrorism,??? she exclaimed.
As for being a crackpot, just look at the pictures of her parading around in costume with a big puppet dove and fake tombstones.
And by the way, if you think we are fighting Israel's war, you're wrong. They have been fighting our war for the last 40 years.
That's quite a crazy, right wing nutjob site you've linked to there. We've been over this multiple times here, but criticism of Israel is not inherently anti-Semetic.
One persons crackpot is another persons hero.
i can go back in time and make changes?
twas my own doing. Thought it was a little harsh so I took it out. Damn, it was only up there for a few seconds, you got a man on the inside I take it (or you hit the refresh button really fast.
Anyway, Im not going start name calling over the internet. Happy little gold stars proove my point just fine.
Nancy Hiss
We all should listen to Cindy Sheehan:
Please pass this email on to your friends, lists, and media.
For more info: call
Cindy Sheehan
707-365-7750
Never said she was a David Duke supporter, quit using those mcgriddles for glasses larry, i think its funny that Duke has jumped on her "peace train" after she maid her comments about israel, and the thing about her husband was interesting but really has nothing to to do with nothing...
hitch is
Cindy Sheehan's Sinister Piffle
What's wrong with her Crawford protest.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, Aug. 15, 2005, at 11:50 AM PT [/b]
Here is an unambivalent statement: "The moral authority of parents who bury children killed in Iraq is absolute."
And, now, here's another:
Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full well that my son, my family, this nation and this world were betrayed by George Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agendas after 9/11. We were told that we were attacked on 9/11 because the terrorists hate our freedoms and democracy ??? not for the real reason, because the Arab Muslims who attacked us hate our middle-eastern foreign policy.
Her knack for PR doesn't make her argument persuasive
The first statement comes from Maureen Dowd, in her New York Times column of Aug. 10. The second statement comes from Cindy Sheehan, whose son Casey was killed in Iraq last year. It was sent to the editors of ABC's Nightline on March 15. In her article, Dowd was arguing that Sheehan's moral authority was absolute.
I am at a complete loss to see how these two positions can be made compatible. Sheehan has obviously taken a short course in the Michael Moore/Ramsey Clark school of Iraq analysis and has not succeeded in making it one atom more elegant or persuasive. I dare say that her "moral authority" to do this is indeed absolute, if we agree for a moment on the weird idea that moral authority is required to adopt overtly political positions, but then so is my "moral" right to say that she is spouting sinister piffle. Suppose I had lost a child in this war. Would any of my critics say that this gave me any extra authority? I certainly would not ask or expect them to do so. Why, then, should anyone grant them such a privilege?
Sheehan has met the president before and has favored us with two accounts of the meeting, one fairly warm and the other distinctly cold. I have no means of knowing which mood reflected her real state of mind, but she now thinks she is owed another session with him, presumably in order to tell him what she asserted to the Nightline team. In pursuit of this, she has set up camp near Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, and announced that she will not leave until she gets some more face-time with our chief executive. This qualifies her to be described by Dowd as "a 48-year-old Californian with a knack for P.R." Well, I think I have to concede that if Dowd says you have a knack for PR, you have acquired one even if you didn't have one before. (I am not entirely certain, for example, that the above letter to ABC News would count as a delicate illustration of the said "knack.")
The president has compromised by sending his national-security adviser, Stephen Hadley, down that Crawford road to meet the PR-knackish Cindy. Not good enough, exclaims Dowd. Hadley was pro-war and has even been described as a neocon! Clearly, then, the Sheehan demand is liable to expand the more it is met. President Bush must either find a senior staff member who opposes the war and then send him or her down the track to see if that will do. Or else he must, like the Emperor Henry of old, stage his own Canossa and attend on her himself, abject apologies at the ready. After all, we mustn't forget that we are dealing???as was that emperor in his dispute with Pope Gregory???with "an absolute moral authority."
What dreary sentimental nonsense this all is, and how much space has been wasted on it. Most irritating is the snide idea that the president is "on vacation" and thus idly ignoring his suffering subjects, when the truth is that the members of the media???not known for their immunity to the charm of Martha's Vineyard or Cape Cod in the month of August???are themselves lazing away the season with a soft-centered nonstory that practically, as we like to say in the trade, "writes itself." Anyway, Sheehan now says that if need be she will "follow" the president "to Washington," so I don't think the holiday sneer has much life left in it.
There are, in fact, some principles involved here. Any citizen has the right to petition the president for redress of grievance, or for that matter to insult him to his face. But the potential number of such people is very large, and you don't have the right to cut in line by having so much free time that you can set up camp near his drive. Then there is the question of civilian control over the military, which is an authority that one could indeed say should be absolute. The military and its relatives have no extra claim on the chief executive's ear. Indeed, it might be said that they have less claim than the rest of us, since they have voluntarily sworn an oath to obey and carry out orders. Most presidents in time of war have made an exception in the case of the bereaved???Lincoln's letter to the mother of two dead Union soldiers (at the time, it was thought that she had lost five sons) is a famous instance???but the job there is one of comfort and reassurance, and this has already been discharged in the Sheehan case. If that stricken mother had been given an audience and had risen up to say that Lincoln had broken his past election pledges and sought a wider and more violent war with the Confederacy, his aides would have been quite right to show her the door and to tell her that she was out of order.
Finally, I think one must deny to anyone the right to ventriloquize the dead. Casey Sheehan joined up as a responsible adult volunteer. Are we so sure that he would have wanted to see his mother acquiring "a knack for P.R." and announcing that he was killed in a war for a Jewish cabal? (a claim that has brought David Duke flying to Ms. Sheehan's side.) This is just as objectionable, on logical as well as moral grounds, as the old pro-war argument that the dead "must not have died in vain." I distrust anyone who claims to speak for the fallen, and I distrust even more the hysterical noncombatants who exploit the grief of those who have to bury them.
No, it does not bar family members from pointing out that their family member was murder by a goverment that is engaging in an illegal and immoral war.
Cindy Sheehan is actively involved in Gold Star Familys For Peace. Many other peace organizations and activist have rallied to her side. She is not responsible for their statements. On the other hand George Bush is responsible for statements and actions.
The right, and others who are easily fooled, will argue about her, background, her family, the people around her, why her son signed up, what it means to be a soldier and the role of US support for Israel. The point of all this argueing is so Cindy Sheehan can't be heard.
Shut up and listen to her.
Dan
PS: As for SoBadSoBadSoBad BAN THE POPTART.
I'm not trying to nit pick here... But didn't she already talk with him and tell him what she wanted? Mind you, it wasn't a huge amount of time...
I can't even get a doctor to talk to me (For a second time) about how my grand mother died and ask questions.
If these statements and writing blogs and protesting outside until she gets her way is how she wants to deal with her sons death, more power to her.
IT IS FINALLY TIME TO EXIT THE OLDSMOBILE
Guest Commentary by Senator Edward M. Kennedy
Like all Americans, I had high hopes for the future of the Oldsmobile and its passengers, as we struggle against the onrushing water and its poorly-designed shoulder belts. But as claustrophobia sets in we must begin to sober up and face the truth: hope is no longer an option.
It is time for us to recognize that our continued presence in this volatile region is a hindrance to the Oldsmobile and its people. Rather than helping the situation we are further weighing down the Oldsmobile, causing it to sink faster and faster into the quagmire of Chappaquiddick Bay, creating a dangerous situation for both ourselves as well as its passengers who are desperately seeking an air pocket in which to start a better life.
That is why I believe we have reached the point where we must take a deep breath and immediately depart the Oldsmobile. We must seek through the watery darkness and release the belt latch of madness that has kept us here, and reach out for a sane and honorable window crank.
Obviously there will be passengers in the Oldsmobile who do not want us to leave, and will likely try to grasp and grab at our feet as we depart. While we wish them success, it is critical that these passengers quickly learn independence and self-determination. The most effective way to teach them is through example, and with a vigorous kick-off. Let us hope they will cherish our shoes as a lasting legacy of our commitment to liberty.
And, after we return to the safety of the American shore and phone our lawyer, we must begin to ask the hard questions. How did we get here? The sad answer is that we were sold a lie by Gene Quinlan of Hyannis port Oldsmobile-Buick-GMC. We were told that this Oldsmobile had the Delta 88 Royale option package with 6-way electric seats. We were told that they were sold out of the new '69 Toronado. We were given a choice of a burgundy vinyl roof, but never given an exit strategy. We were told, repeatedly, that the Oldsmobile was waterproof and had an automatic pilot system. In short, Gene Quinlan sold us a lie.
There will be ample time for us to reflect on the mistakes and lies of the Oldsmobile misadventure, and hold those who were responsible to account. But that is for another day. Now we must focus our energy on getting out before it is too late.
Has "nothing to do with nothing" yet still manages to make it's way into the convo via sly, Drudge-esque inference. If you didn't mean to make the association, why mention it at all? Because if you throw enough crap at someone, some of it is bound to stick.
BTW, Hitch is an a-hole. Gone from one of the great minds of his generation to a low-rent administration apologist in a few short years. He comes off like some sodden Oxford don with his head up his ass. Just sad.
you explained that one away. More of the evil Matt Drudge. Is that how you dismiss everything you don't agree with, as Drudge inspired?
Bush (via his actions) himself appears to have little or no respect for "the office".
And a Chappaquiddick joke? What are you, a 65 year old, cigar chomping Fox News viewer?
Jeebus....
OK, I suppose it's a coincidence all of the stuff you keep dragging in here appears on Drudge's front page? I suppose you could have gotten it out of some other right wing sewer like Free Republic or LGF, but I don't think so.
Keep it up punk...
what's saddest of all is the fact that as one of the leading voices in, what i assume, is your party, makes a chappaquiddick joke sadly relevant.
Which hasn't got a fucking thing to do with what's being discussed here, does it?
Ah, the old guilty by someone else's association trick.
SPOT THE ANTISEMITE!!!!!
SPOT THE ANTISEMITE!!!!!
SPOT THE ANTISEMITE!!!!!
SPOT THE ANTISEMITE!!!!!
The title "Judenhass" brings this debate into the toilet. What next, you gonna quote Goldhagen???
You're sinking deeper kid...throw away your NY Post, it's dragging you down...
I.D. check please. Did you buy your driving license from behind the Port Authority?
well sum up what she is saying, other than her belief that we are only protecting israel, what else is she saying that so urgently needs to be heard?