12"s sold withouth sleeves???

finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
edited March 2011 in Strut Central
Just received a order of 6 current 12" releases. 5 out of six came without a cardboard sleeve and just in the white paper sleeves. These records where by no means prized cheaper than the other one. In the item description of the recordshop wasn`t an indication that they are sleeveless.
Shit like this makes me angry and seriously questioning why I`m buying records for djing instead of using s.erato.
Whats the deal in releasing sleeveless records? Is the profit margin that low that you can`t afford sleeves anymore on
12" releases? Is it pure greed? Label headz, please school me.

  Comments


  • I'm guessing it's to reduce the weight for postage!

    It really is a tight ass move, but may depend on the records as to how worked up you should get.

    I wouldn't be particularly happy, but so long as the record grading is good, i'd try and live with it......

    if they have overcharged for postage, based on weight related issues, then I'd have a word for sure!

    good luck

  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    I guess it has nothing to do with reducing the shipping costs. Even with sleeves the shipping rate would have been the same...
    The recordshops is not to blame here, but record labels itself. They sell their half-done incomplete product to the distributors withouth sleeves to save some money. I`m wondering why distributors, record shop owners and customers put up with this.
    Grading is not an issue here, as they are brand new records.

  • well, if it makes you feel any better.....

    Alot of the hardcore/ drum and bass jungle records I bought back in 92/93/94 came in the same format!!!

    I don't see it being a reasonable thing though unless the labels are really independent and small runs.

  • inVrsinVrs 687 Posts
    thats absolutly normal for about 30% of new house releases. and really sucks.
    especially if you charge 15 euros for a single sided 12 to begin with..

  • dj_cityboydj_cityboy 1,478 Posts
    yeah a lot of the jungle i bought in the early 90's all came without cardboard sleeves, a lot of white labels seemed to come this way, i bought a bunch of congo natty rekkids in the early 2000's and they were being sold without sleeves, shitty thing was there was no way to get sleeves in this city back back then, no one sold em...so you did without..

    theres no reason for records to be sold without sleeves now a days, especially given what they cost..

  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    inVrs said:
    thats absolutly normal for about 30% of new house releases. and really sucks.
    especially if you charge 15 euros for a single sided 12 to begin with..

    Do this kind of records actually sell? They must be the best thing since sliced bread if people shell out that much money.
    Isn`t it kind a hard to sell these to distibutors?

  • p_gunnp_gunn 2,284 Posts
    This has been the standard in uk dance music for a long time...

  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    p_gunn said:
    This has been the standard in uk dance music for a long time...

    Arn`t they putting of the last vinyl Djs with this buisiness move? The dropping vinyl sales are to a certain degree self-imposed, it seems.

  • BreezBreez 1,706 Posts
    I recall back in the day, like '91-'93 when I was playing a lot of B-more Club, House & just dance music in general a lot of the European imports I was playing were sleeveless. I never understood why.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I had not heard of this.
    No wonder those records don't have wider appeal.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    Just a few things to note since I had quite a bit of dealings with this back in the day.

    Ever ship a box of records (50-100) International before? Not only is it REALLY expensive, but the size of the box could make a difference. Cutting out the cardboard saves not only some money on shipping, but on space. Same goes for in a record shop. As anyone who has ever shopped in many UK stores knows, there isn't a lot of space. When you have a huge number of releases coming in every week, it was important to get as many of that particular title in the one space on the wall, so you didn't have the excess copies taking up floor space elsewhere. Now, you might think that 25 cardboard sleeves makes much a difference. When you do this with potentially 100's of titles, it can make a world of difference. Even more so when you are dealing with the dance music floor of the shop being 200-500 sq ft including the office.

    Plus, in the beginning there was a hotness factor around doing such things. When you came into the shop seeing a white label promo with no cardboard sleeve, it gave the appearance of it coming hot of the press. Now this doesn't mean anything today. But throughout the 90's, doing things like this did.

    Trust me, it never effected sales back in the day. Not for dance music. In fact, I believe it had some labels change the way they manufactured releases. Which had them doing a proper single sleeve release.

  • PATXPATX 2,820 Posts
    File under: White label/test-press/dubplate chic.

    If your local record store is stocking day-glo Mario Bros pic sleeve rave 12s and you need to find that real shit, then that real shit is probably a 3x10" no label beast that you can't work out if it needs to be played on 33 or 45.

  • BreezBreez 1,706 Posts
    SportCasual said:
    File under: White label/test-press/dubplate chic.


    And that's exactly what the ones I stated above were. White or light-green plain labels with sharpie or pen written info. Some, I know, were bootlegs but about 75% weren't.

  • p_gunnp_gunn 2,284 Posts
    Breez said:
    SportCasual said:
    File under: White label/test-press/dubplate chic.


    And that's exactly what the ones I stated above were. White or light-green plain labels with sharpie or pen written info. Some, I know, were bootlegs but about 75% weren't.

    yup... like SC said, it comes out of white label culture...

    the idea of white labels with handwritten/stamped titles being THAT SHIT probably goes back to Jamaican 7"s (and 12"), which have certainly played a part in the shaping UK dance music...

    also, the cheapest way to press a 12" is to have blank labels and no sleeves... it is what it is...

    i dont think the weight of the sleeves is really the issue, as much as it's seen as an unneccesary cost for the producer (who is most likely a 19 year old kid who lives w/ his mom...), since the purchaser (presumably a working DJ) is not going to frame this record, he is going to play it out and have it in his record bag (maybe weight becomes an issue here!)...

    @finelikewine: this has never been an issue for me, as records like these are tools... yes, serato has eroded their appeal (nowadays most people don't do the plain white labels, probably for that reason), but people are buying these for the sound, not the look...

  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    p_gunn said:

    @finelikewine: this has never been an issue for me, as records like these are tools... yes, serato has eroded their appeal (nowadays most people don't do the plain white labels, probably for that reason), but people are buying these for the sound, not the look...

    It ain`t about the look of the record. As long as the music is good I`m fine with everything. BUT it is a pain in the ass if you can`t take them with you for djing immediatly because they have no sleeve and are unprotected.
    If that shit is cheaper in the production give it back to the customer. Otherwise they might feel ripped off, especially if there is no indicication of this fact in the record store's item description.
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