I understand the concept of Religious Billboards 'cause there's big bucks being tithed.
But what's the logic behind Atheist Billboards??
I'm not against them, just don't understand why they exist.
There are plenty of kids out there in religious or hyper-religious families who have doubts about what they're being taught. These billboards and so forth are one way to let them know they're not alone.
You can laugh at that if you want, but I've talked to enough ex-fundies to know it's no joke. I think it's possible that for some people these are a lifeline, and even if I question their effectiveness it's not like they're doing any harm. Unlike fundamentalism, which does endless harm every day of the week.
Although some of the billboards could be handled in a less cringe-inducing manner, I fully agree with the above sentiments. I grew up in a very conservative household, was extremely down-the-well myself, and when I woke up and "came out" as an agnostic later in life, it was surprising and encouraging to know that there were people that saw matters through a relatively shared viewpoint. I have lost the support of a good deal of my family over the last decade (I won't re-hash past posts), but it's always comforting to know that I'm not alone.
For me it was Mark Twain and Harlan Ellison and so forth. But I know some kids get clamped on so hard they don't even get a chance to do free range reading.
Although some of the billboards could be handled in a less cringe-inducing manner, I fully agree with the above sentiments. I grew up in a very conservative household, was extremely down-the-well myself, and when I woke up and "came out" as an agnostic later in life, it was surprising and encouraging to know that there were people that saw matters through a relatively shared viewpoint. I have lost the support of a good deal of my family over the last decade (I won't re-hash past posts), but it's always comforting to know that I'm not alone.
For me it was Mark Twain and Harlan Ellison and so forth. But I know some kids get clamped on so hard they don't even get a chance to do free range reading.
Should most of the blame here go to parenting or religion?
Although some of the billboards could be handled in a less cringe-inducing manner, I fully agree with the above sentiments. I grew up in a very conservative household, was extremely down-the-well myself, and when I woke up and "came out" as an agnostic later in life, it was surprising and encouraging to know that there were people that saw matters through a relatively shared viewpoint. I have lost the support of a good deal of my family over the last decade (I won't re-hash past posts), but it's always comforting to know that I'm not alone.
For me it was Mark Twain and Harlan Ellison and so forth. But I know some kids get clamped on so hard they don't even get a chance to do free range reading.
Should most of the blame here go to parenting or religion?
I'm not sure I know how to separate the two in this context. Some religious parents are just fucked up. Sometimes the fucked up comes first, sometimes it doesn't. Some people are just weak and fall under the guidance of religious "leaders" who bring them to very dark places. Some just end up in silly places.
And it's not like religion just gets kids. There are lots of later-in-life conversions, and I seem to remember reading that this seems to be more common in America than in most other places.
And it's not like religion just gets kids. There are lots of later-in-life conversions, and I seem to remember reading that this seems to be more common in America than in most other places.
It is more common in America. It's not just in the context of "religious" conversions either. For whatever reason, America tends to have a much higher rate of what one could call "rapid personality changes". I would suggest reading that Flo Conway/Jim Siegelman book, if you're interested.
And it's not like religion just gets kids. There are lots of later-in-life conversions, and I seem to remember reading that this seems to be more common in America than in most other places.
It is more common in America. It's not just in the context of "religious" conversions either. For whatever reason, America tends to have a much higher rate of what one could call "rapid personality changes". I would suggest reading that Flo Conway/Jim Siegelman book, if you're interested.
Thanks, that's the source I was trying to remember. Great books for anyone interested in this topic/area. ("Snapping" and "Holy Terror.)
Although some of the billboards could be handled in a less cringe-inducing manner, I fully agree with the above sentiments. I grew up in a very conservative household, was extremely down-the-well myself, and when I woke up and "came out" as an agnostic later in life, it was surprising and encouraging to know that there were people that saw matters through a relatively shared viewpoint. I have lost the support of a good deal of my family over the last decade (I won't re-hash past posts), but it's always comforting to know that I'm not alone.
For me it was Mark Twain and Harlan Ellison and so forth. But I know some kids get clamped on so hard they don't even get a chance to do free range reading.
Should most of the blame here go to parenting or religion?
Parents are instructed by the Bible according to Proverbs 22:6: "Direct your children onto the right path, and when they are older, they will not leave it." This "right path" includes everything biblical - from the Beatitudes to the genocides. That is proper parenting in their book.
Parents are instructed by the Bible according to Proverbs 22:6: "Direct your children onto the right path, and when they are older, they will not leave it." This "right path" includes everything biblical - from the Beatitudes to the genocides. That is proper parenting in their book.
Not only that but my point was that belief systems (like religion, like patriotism, like race or gender, etc.) are the product of BOTH individual interactions (i.e. parenting in this case) and social institutions (like religion, government, schools, media).
The popularity of religious orthodoxy isn't something generated solely by individual parents. I mean, it is called "organized" religion for a reason and part of the organizational function of *any* organization is to encourage and enforce its beliefs and rules. If you fail to, your organization can't survive.
With religion, it's especially powerful because you're invoking the idea of a divine power compelling belief and - in the case of Christianity (but not necessarily other religions), a threat of eternal damnation for non-believers. Parents can promise to beat your ass but compare that with a theological threat of hell.
Not only that but my point was that belief systems (like religion, like patriotism, like race or gender, etc.) are the product of BOTH individual interactions (i.e. parenting in this case) and social institutions (like religion, government, schools, media).
The popularity of religious orthodoxy isn't something generated solely by individual parents. I mean, it is called "organized" religion for a reason and part of the organizational function of *any* organization is to encourage and enforce its beliefs and rules. If you fail to, your organization can't survive.
With religion, it's especially powerful because you're invoking the idea of a divine power compelling belief and - in the case of Christianity (but not necessarily other religions), a threat of eternal damnation for non-believers. Parents can promise to beat your ass but compare that with a theological threat of hell.
I'm not sure I understand how race and gender is a "belief system".
Is there any religious doctrine that does not include punishment for failure to comply, to varying degrees, dependent on how "fundamental" the follower is?
In my experience the great majority of people who were raised "Christian" in the U.S., including myself, were not extreme fundamentalists as represented in a film like "Jesus Camp" and to represent it as such is imo misleading.
Even Billy Joel knew that Catholic girls were an easy mark after 12 years of Catholic School as they, like most young adults, rebelled against that shit as soon as possible.
Religion is like most things....some people use it properly as a positive force for themselves and society and some people abuse it......I put that on humans and their particular interpretations.
There are less that 5% of our population who claim to be atheists...I'd bet that even fewer claim to be what you would define as "Patriots".
There are less that 5% of our population who claim to be atheists.
Maybe a little higher than that, but it's growing.
The hardcore fundie types - maybe 20% of the population - are a huge drag on the social and intellectual life of this country. The worst part is when they wrap their Jesus up in the flag and make a real shit sandwich.
Comments
For me it was Mark Twain and Harlan Ellison and so forth. But I know some kids get clamped on so hard they don't even get a chance to do free range reading.
Should most of the blame here go to parenting or religion?
I'm not sure I know how to separate the two in this context. Some religious parents are just fucked up. Sometimes the fucked up comes first, sometimes it doesn't. Some people are just weak and fall under the guidance of religious "leaders" who bring them to very dark places. Some just end up in silly places.
And it's not like religion just gets kids. There are lots of later-in-life conversions, and I seem to remember reading that this seems to be more common in America than in most other places.
It is more common in America. It's not just in the context of "religious" conversions either. For whatever reason, America tends to have a much higher rate of what one could call "rapid personality changes". I would suggest reading that Flo Conway/Jim Siegelman book, if you're interested.
Is patriotism a product of parenting or government?
Thanks, that's the source I was trying to remember. Great books for anyone interested in this topic/area. ("Snapping" and "Holy Terror.)
Parents are instructed by the Bible according to Proverbs 22:6: "Direct your children onto the right path, and when they are older, they will not leave it." This "right path" includes everything biblical - from the Beatitudes to the genocides. That is proper parenting in their book.
I'm not sure if allowing users to delete their own posts is possible under the new system. My guess is "no" based on the permissions system.
Not only that but my point was that belief systems (like religion, like patriotism, like race or gender, etc.) are the product of BOTH individual interactions (i.e. parenting in this case) and social institutions (like religion, government, schools, media).
The popularity of religious orthodoxy isn't something generated solely by individual parents. I mean, it is called "organized" religion for a reason and part of the organizational function of *any* organization is to encourage and enforce its beliefs and rules. If you fail to, your organization can't survive.
With religion, it's especially powerful because you're invoking the idea of a divine power compelling belief and - in the case of Christianity (but not necessarily other religions), a threat of eternal damnation for non-believers. Parents can promise to beat your ass but compare that with a theological threat of hell.
Fixed.
2008 Atheist Bus Campaign, London:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/06/richarddawkins.religion
I would say government...school is where most kids hear the pledge of allegiance, see a flag in every room, etc.
I'm not sure I understand how race and gender is a "belief system".
Is there any religious doctrine that does not include punishment for failure to comply, to varying degrees, dependent on how "fundamental" the follower is?
In my experience the great majority of people who were raised "Christian" in the U.S., including myself, were not extreme fundamentalists as represented in a film like "Jesus Camp" and to represent it as such is imo misleading.
Even Billy Joel knew that Catholic girls were an easy mark after 12 years of Catholic School as they, like most young adults, rebelled against that shit as soon as possible.
Religion is like most things....some people use it properly as a positive force for themselves and society and some people abuse it......I put that on humans and their particular interpretations.
There are less that 5% of our population who claim to be atheists...I'd bet that even fewer claim to be what you would define as "Patriots".
Maybe a little higher than that, but it's growing.
The hardcore fundie types - maybe 20% of the population - are a huge drag on the social and intellectual life of this country. The worst part is when they wrap their Jesus up in the flag and make a real shit sandwich.
so, if you don't believe in Jebus then you also hate 'merica