there is a distinct difference in sound between rare and common funk.
really?
That may be an over generalization, but I think so. I hate to apply logic considering the basis of that statement is emotional, but under produced, unpolished, emotional funk with room to experiment sounds distinctly different than well produced, polished, formulaic funk. It's the same reason I prefer college basketball over the NBA. Sloppy amateur players with hustle and heart are more entertaining to me than watching the best of the best.
there is plenty of slickly produced funk / soul that is super rare tho - I take your point on the type of funk YOU like, but I'm not sure rarity has a SOUND
Fair enough... it just so happens that the funk 45's I like are always rare. Damn!
It's a good track, but there are many better ones.
I think "Unforgiven" is special. It's raw and heavy, and I agree with all you wrote about it above, Manny. I just honestly believe that the hype, rarity, and stories about acquiring (or almost acquiring) it are greater than the track itself. The crazy stuff Forty Fivan wrote about his offers to DJ OM (lurking related) for the record just works toward solidifying the record's legend. Just my opinion.
Kindly,
parallax
Just to repeat Dante's point - what's the hype? I think really we had two people, Ivan and James, talmabout how great this was which got everyone curious, then Dante dropped the snippet. At that point, I was sold on the fact of, "wow, this is a really fucking great tune." The subsequent eBay auction is besides the point and in any case, I don't see it as really contributing to a "hype" factor unless you're giving the Strut echo chamber more credit than it deserves.
Like I said - if someone thinks this tune is "average", it doesn't jibe with my opinion but I'd be curious to gauge how others think of the song relative to songs they think are way better. So, for example, I didn't find any of Rey's picks to be better, IMO. Which doesn't mean they're bad choices, I just don't happen to think they're superior to "Unforgiven."
As for your picks, can't agree on "Melting Pot" since they're not really comparable songs but I'd agree - it's fire. The 1984 is great; I love that kind dirty, garage funk. I wouldn't put it ahead of "Unforgiven" but it'd be in the same ballpark.
I wouldn't put "World" ahead of it, nor "Stormy Weather" but again, just a matter of taste.
One single I would put ahead of "Unforgiven": Blackrock's "Yeah Yeah."
Another: "Lover and a Friend" by Eddie Bo and Inez Cheatham.
So it's not like I think it's the best thing in the world...I just can't agree that it's "pretty average." I think, as Dante says, it bangs extremely hard. But of course, that's subjective.
Hmm...interesting that you would put "Lover and Friend" ahead of "Unforgiven". I wouldn't, to be honest with you.
It's really cool comparing notes with people who have similar yet different tastes, you know? That's the corny music geek in me, I guess, so thanks for sharing.
The Scorpio 45 isn't just a rare or killer funk spin, its a bonafide work of art. At least thats how my brain files it. Aside from just the rhythm and melody that make up the tune, there is so much else being drawn out in a truely unquantifiable way. its art work.
On a sorta related note, when i was just a lurker/first joined up here, i felt like people got genuinely excited about rare records. But nowadays it seems like 85% of the board has some strange animosity reflex towards anything too expensive or too rare.
Just deal with the fact that the Scorpio 45 bangs extremely hard and is also dead rare.
I think it's also worth noting that "Unforgiven" has a direct and recognizable emotional component that is absent from most 45s in its weight class.
This is a really crucial point. I was also thinking of a song like "What Do You See In Her?" by Inell Young which I think is emotionally transcendent beyond just the production/arrangement.
Just deal with the fact that the Scorpio 45 bangs extremely hard and is also dead rare.
I think it's also worth noting that "Unforgiven" has a direct and recognizable emotional component that is absent from most 45s in its weight class.
This is a really crucial point. I was also thinking of a song like "What Do You See In Her?" by Inell Young which I think is emotionally transcendent beyond just the production/arrangement.
...and I have never understood Sandi & Matues's "The World." Do NOT get it. I have given that thing more chances than god himself, only to come the the same conclusion.
The Scorpio 45 isn't just a rare or killer funk spin, its a bonafide work of art. At least thats how my brain files it. Aside from just the rhythm and melody that make up the tune, there is so much else being drawn out in a truely unquantifiable way. its art work.
On a sorta related note, when i was just a lurker/first joined up here, i felt like people got genuinely excited about rare records. But nowadays it seems like 85% of the board has some strange animosity reflex towards anything too expensive or too rare.
I have no animosity towards rarity, only mediocrity. Certain pivotal collectors bigging up this record up has created a false positive. I'm not saying it's awful and without charm, but charm and a cool label is not enough to make it brilliant, wake up. One of the copies i know of in the UK came out of one of the first funk45 collectors shit box for next to nothing so he obviously did not rate it either.
One of the copies i know of in the UK came out of one of the first funk45 collectors shit box for next to nothing so he obviously did not rate it either.
We've all made spotting mistakes. If nothing else, he lacked financial foresight.
If you haven't already, I implore you to hear this spun out on a quality club system. It's a very unique and memorable arrangement replete with a solid, haunting tone that has stuck with some of us for years. And assailing folks on taste issues is a dead-end street. Some folks rate it highly, and some don't.
The Scorpio 45 isn't just a rare or killer funk spin, its a bonafide work of art. At least thats how my brain files it. Aside from just the rhythm and melody that make up the tune, there is so much else being drawn out in a truely unquantifiable way. its art work.
On a sorta related note, when i was just a lurker/first joined up here, i felt like people got genuinely excited about rare records. But nowadays it seems like 85% of the board has some strange animosity reflex towards anything too expensive or too rare.
I have no animosity towards rarity, only mediocrity. Certain pivotal collectors bigging up this record up has created a false positive. I'm not saying it's awful and without charm, but charm and a cool label is not enough to make it brilliant, wake up. One of the copies i know of in the UK came out of one of the first funk45 collectors shit box for next to nothing so he obviously did not rate it either.
I get the distinct feeling that you're arguing with someone who's not at this party. There may be people who think the Scorpio record is worthy because it's "charming" and "looks cool," but I'm not sure they're on this board. Most of the excitement around here only came after an mp3 got posted--after folks, you know, heard it--and I'm reluctant to call that a "false positive."
I give UK funk and soul dudes past and present their full props, but I think it's safe to say that taste over there skews towards the orthodox. I think it's a clubbier, more insular scene, where moody, otherworldy records like this one have a harder time getting traction than do straightforward crowd-igniters. Along with a difference in taste, there seems to be a real difference in culture, one that rears its head when records like this come up in discussion. US dudes have a comparatively hard time getting excited about shit like John Heartsman, while UK dudes have a comparatively hard time getting excited about Scorpio N' Nem. So it goes.
And no offense, but the "Record X is obviously weak because Collector X sold it for peanuts back in the day" argument is bullshit, and you know it.
I think someone could argue there are better SPINS than Scorpio. If I look out on a crowd and see a sea of Beckies I'd be more apt to play something like Wanda Davis Save Me (an amazing side, to be sure). The Danny's crowd, at least the couple of times I made it there, skewed majorly towards the kooky 20-something art school set. People who are far more likely to have a religious fit to something strange like Unforgiven.
But to judge it purely on its own, outside of a DJ setting, and call it Mediocre seems to imply that A) there are shit tons of soundalikes out there and B) Scorpio runs at the middle of the pack. I've heard a fair share of this stuff by now and I guess I just solidly disagree.
Unforgiven is the name of the Scorpio track that this thread is about.
Two things that make it stand out to me:
-The low horn beds during the verses give it a uniquely dark tone.
-The mellow vocals between those big hits create a great contrast along the lines of the "cool guys don't look at explosions" phenomena in action flicks.
Billy Sha-Rae also uses this technique in "Let's Do It Again" when there is this long breakdown and buildup in the middle of the song and right at the peak instead of going wild like you'd expect he just lets out a smooth "aw yeah".
Where did you get these? I made it VERY clear to everyone I shared these with NOT to post online. Not putting you on blast, I'm indifferent, but I did make a promise to a close friend who owns this record and hipped me to it that I wouldn't let it go out. I would hate to look like an untrustworthy friend because someone broke their promise with me.
Still meh. It would be one of those trophy records that would sit in the back of my box and do nothing,mthe only reason to play it is to trump the other 3 collectors in the room which does not interest me.
I listened to that monster-raer 45s mix. Was very cool to have the opportunity to hear so many tracks in one sitting, thanks.
Only one tune made me go to the tracklist.
It was Eddie Bo!
If I was going to nominate a deep funk song that is a raer and awesome, I'd go with Clean Up Man by Eddie Finley & The Cincinatti Show Band. It has the raerity, it's a shitty recording, and it's holy-f*ck powerful raw funk that would hit me just as hard if it had been recorded by Tom Jones on a major label. It's scary how good that song is.
Wish it had been better recorded though.
Not a fan of Sandi & The Matutes either.
+1 vote for Boris Gardner Melting Pot.
Where did you get these? I made it VERY clear to everyone I shared these with NOT to post online. Not putting you on blast, I'm indifferent, but I did make a promise to a close friend who owns this record and hipped me to it that I wouldn't let it go out. I would hate to look like an untrustworthy friend because someone broke their promise with me.
Whatever... enjoy it
I had a soulseek saved search for them and when someone put them in a shared folder I was alerted. I suspect a lot of other people were too because now there's a 200+ person queue to download them. If you have soulseek you can do the search and see the user/leaker. I evened out the Left/Right balance on the files.
Where did you get these? I made it VERY clear to everyone I shared these with NOT to post online. Not putting you on blast, I'm indifferent, but I did make a promise to a close friend who owns this record and hipped me to it that I wouldn't let it go out. I would hate to look like an untrustworthy friend because someone broke their promise with me.
You know, when I was still a kid but was old enough to have my own pocket money and was thus able to choose and buy my parents gifts for Christmas or birthdays or whatever, I used to always fuck it up. I was so thrilled to have this little bit of secret information--I know what's in the box! I know what's in the box!--so to generate excitement in the recipient, I would give as many hints as I possibly could without actually saying the name of the thing ("Oh man, oh man, you're gonna love it! I can't tell you what it is, but let's just say..."), but I lacked self-control and would invariably go just too far, and the secret would be out. On the surface I'd be bummed--"Aw, dang...Well, you still gotta act surprised when you open it, okay?"--but the truth is this: I wanted it out there. I of course wanted on some level to keep the secret, but more than that, I wanted the recipient to be just as thrilled as I was, and I didn't want to have to wait. I wanted them to recognize, to appreciate, to agree.
I say all that just to say this: I think you wanted this out there. You've been cha-cha-ing toward this edge for a good while now--"Okay, I'll play it live...but I'm not gonna post it" "Okay, I'll post it...but only in a mix--I'm not gonna share the full version" "Okay, I'll share the full version...but only with several friends" etc.--and I think you wanted more people to know just what it was you were holding, and I think you had to know this was gonna happen. The fact that it finally has puts a capstone on what has been, no offense, some oddly proprietary behavior on your part concerning this record.
I don't think it's that bad, though. As a non-owner this is probably very easy for me to say, but this is a really special record, and I'm glad that it's out now and that people can fully absorb it and talk about it in a context less clouded by commerce and acquisition. Not that I believe they actually will, but still.
Where did you get these? I made it VERY clear to everyone I shared these with NOT to post online. Not putting you on blast, I'm indifferent, but I did make a promise to a close friend who owns this record and hipped me to it that I wouldn't let it go out. I would hate to look like an untrustworthy friend because someone broke their promise with me.
seems to me that your friend gave it to you and you gave it to others, so it was only a matter of a very short time before it spread. anyway, theres more important things to fret about in the world then failed attempts at suppressing art. let it breathe. people will still listen to your mixes anyway and if your friend doesnt understand how information travels (or that there are other copies in the world) then he's sheltered.
at the end of the day....the song is dope! (but i still like bill withers more)
Still meh. It would be one of those trophy records that would sit in the back of my box and do nothing,mthe only reason to play it is to trump the other 3 collectors in the room which does not interest me.
Comments
Fair enough... it just so happens that the funk 45's I like are always rare. Damn!
So it's a sluggish soul record then?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MEGA-RARE-FUNK-45-LEON-GARDNER-Farm-Song-IGLOO-163-ORIG-/160499873485?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item255e89b6cd
On a sorta related note, when i was just a lurker/first joined up here, i felt like people got genuinely excited about rare records. But nowadays it seems like 85% of the board has some strange animosity reflex towards anything too expensive or too rare.
This is a really crucial point. I was also thinking of a song like "What Do You See In Her?" by Inell Young which I think is emotionally transcendent beyond just the production/arrangement.
I think this is what's known as "It".
I first heard this song at Danny's in Chicago about 7-8 years ago, before most folks knew about it.
I asked DCast at the time: "what the FUCK is THAT?"
For all I knew at the time, it was a $50 single, but it blew me away. Still does.
I have no animosity towards rarity, only mediocrity. Certain pivotal collectors bigging up this record up has created a false positive. I'm not saying it's awful and without charm, but charm and a cool label is not enough to make it brilliant, wake up. One of the copies i know of in the UK came out of one of the first funk45 collectors shit box for next to nothing so he obviously did not rate it either.
We've all made spotting mistakes. If nothing else, he lacked financial foresight.
If you haven't already, I implore you to hear this spun out on a quality club system. It's a very unique and memorable arrangement replete with a solid, haunting tone that has stuck with some of us for years. And assailing folks on taste issues is a dead-end street. Some folks rate it highly, and some don't.
I give UK funk and soul dudes past and present their full props, but I think it's safe to say that taste over there skews towards the orthodox. I think it's a clubbier, more insular scene, where moody, otherworldy records like this one have a harder time getting traction than do straightforward crowd-igniters. Along with a difference in taste, there seems to be a real difference in culture, one that rears its head when records like this come up in discussion. US dudes have a comparatively hard time getting excited about shit like John Heartsman, while UK dudes have a comparatively hard time getting excited about Scorpio N' Nem. So it goes.
And no offense, but the "Record X is obviously weak because Collector X sold it for peanuts back in the day" argument is bullshit, and you know it.
But to judge it purely on its own, outside of a DJ setting, and call it Mediocre seems to imply that A) there are shit tons of soundalikes out there and B) Scorpio runs at the middle of the pack. I've heard a fair share of this stuff by now and I guess I just solidly disagree.
kind thanks,
me
Two things that make it stand out to me:
-The low horn beds during the verses give it a uniquely dark tone.
-The mellow vocals between those big hits create a great contrast along the lines of the "cool guys don't look at explosions" phenomena in action flicks.
Billy Sha-Rae also uses this technique in "Let's Do It Again" when there is this long breakdown and buildup in the middle of the song and right at the peak instead of going wild like you'd expect he just lets out a smooth "aw yeah".
http://reynaldo82.com/audio/The_Unforgiven.mp3
http://reynaldo82.com/audio/Theme_From_The_Movietown_Sound.mp3
Where did you get these? I made it VERY clear to everyone I shared these with NOT to post online. Not putting you on blast, I'm indifferent, but I did make a promise to a close friend who owns this record and hipped me to it that I wouldn't let it go out. I would hate to look like an untrustworthy friend because someone broke their promise with me.
Whatever... enjoy it
I listened to that monster-raer 45s mix. Was very cool to have the opportunity to hear so many tracks in one sitting, thanks.
Only one tune made me go to the tracklist.
It was Eddie Bo!
If I was going to nominate a deep funk song that is a raer and awesome, I'd go with Clean Up Man by Eddie Finley & The Cincinatti Show Band. It has the raerity, it's a shitty recording, and it's holy-f*ck powerful raw funk that would hit me just as hard if it had been recorded by Tom Jones on a major label. It's scary how good that song is.
Wish it had been better recorded though.
Not a fan of Sandi & The Matutes either.
+1 vote for Boris Gardner Melting Pot.
I say all that just to say this: I think you wanted this out there. You've been cha-cha-ing toward this edge for a good while now--"Okay, I'll play it live...but I'm not gonna post it" "Okay, I'll post it...but only in a mix--I'm not gonna share the full version" "Okay, I'll share the full version...but only with several friends" etc.--and I think you wanted more people to know just what it was you were holding, and I think you had to know this was gonna happen. The fact that it finally has puts a capstone on what has been, no offense, some oddly proprietary behavior on your part concerning this record.
I don't think it's that bad, though. As a non-owner this is probably very easy for me to say, but this is a really special record, and I'm glad that it's out now and that people can fully absorb it and talk about it in a context less clouded by commerce and acquisition. Not that I believe they actually will, but still.
seems to me that your friend gave it to you and you gave it to others, so it was only a matter of a very short time before it spread. anyway, theres more important things to fret about in the world then failed attempts at suppressing art. let it breathe. people will still listen to your mixes anyway and if your friend doesnt understand how information travels (or that there are other copies in the world) then he's sheltered.
at the end of the day....the song is dope! (but i still like bill withers more)
Yikes.