Rap Thread: A Tribe Called Quest's Final Album

faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
edited August 2010 in Strut Central
Can anyone sell me on this? My Dilla stans perhaps?

I was listening to it this morning and wondering why I had hung onto it for 12 years. I could find very little to like about it beyond "Find a Way," which I have as a 12"

I also revisited the preceding album which, while I still think marks a distinct falloff, sounds much better than I remembered. It's still got some of the classic Quest vibe, but also takes it in a new direction.

There's very little of what I liked about Quest left on The Bowel Movement and in retrospect it seems clear that the group had already pretty much broken up by the time the cobbled together.
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  Comments


  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    Hey Faux,

    I can't believe it, but I actually agree with your thoughts on the final two ATCQ albums. I never thought we could ever agree on a rap-related topic . The planets must have shifted or something :lol:.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

  • Hotsauce84Hotsauce84 8,450 Posts
    C'mon man. No one's going to "sell" you on this. You just want to hate. You don't like it? Keep the 12", get rid of the album and K.I.M.

    Simple, no?

  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    Herm said:
    C'mon man. No one's going to "sell" you on this. You just want to hate. You don't like it? Keep the 12", get rid of the album and K.I.M.

    Simple, no?

    Hey Herm,

    As much as I absolutely love ATCQ (one of my favorite rap groups ever), I never liked the last two LPs very much. The problem simply is that they set a really high bar with their first 3 LPs, and the last two joints just didn't live up to the standard. I wouldn't say Dilla had anything to do with it, but instead, the group members seemed to grow apart.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Herm said:
    C'mon man. No one's going to "sell" you on this. You just want to hate. You don't like it? Keep the 12", get rid of the album and K.I.M.

    Simple, no?

    No, I do not "just want to hate"--if I did, there are certainly much more interesting targets than a 12-year-old album that everyone agreed upon release was the group's worst

    I am genuinely curious if anyone can offer an alternative perspective on it

    If you don't have anything to contribute, then don't clutter up the thread

    At one time, this was a board where people were not hostile to the very idea of discussing music, and it's sad that that's mostly been lost

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    1. "Start It Up" - whatevs
    2 "Find a Way" - classic
    3 "Da Booty" - yes
    4 "Steppin' It Up" - cool
    5 "Like It like That" - cool
    6 "Common Ground (Get It Goin' On)" - cool
    7 "4 Moms" - yes
    8 "His Name Is Mutty Ranks" - alright
    9 "Give Me" - Hells to the yeah
    10 "Pad & Pen" - ehh
    11 "Busta's Lament" - cool
    12 "Hot 4 U" - nah
    13 "Against the World" - alright
    14 "The Love" - yes
    15 "Rock Rock Y'all" - cool

    Not a GREAT album but above average.....7.5

    Massive fail for adding those older hits to the CD.

  • Hotsauce84Hotsauce84 8,450 Posts
    Big_Stacks said:
    Herm said:
    C'mon man. No one's going to "sell" you on this. You just want to hate. You don't like it? Keep the 12", get rid of the album and K.I.M.

    Simple, no?

    Hey Herm,

    As much as I absolutely love ATCQ (one of my favorite rap groups ever), I never liked the last two LPs very much. The problem simply is that they set a really high bar with their first 3 LPs, and the last two joints just didn't live up to the standard. I wouldn't say Dilla had anything to do with it, but instead, the group members seemed to grow apart.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

    Sorry Stacks! My comment wasn't directed at you. I was just calling out Faux on his "sincere" attempt to have a site full of "little dudes" help change his mind on an album he doesn't like.

    For what it's worth, I agree with you on those albums.

    Carry on.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    If i recall, Q-Tip "sang" alot more on The Love Movement than previous joints.

    The production was EXTRA clean, but that seemed to be just what the style was in '98.

  • Hotsauce84Hotsauce84 8,450 Posts
    faux_rillz said:
    Herm said:
    C'mon man. No one's going to "sell" you on this. You just want to hate. You don't like it? Keep the 12", get rid of the album and K.I.M.

    Simple, no?

    No, I do not "just want to hate"--if I did, there are certainly much more interesting targets than a 12-year-old album that everyone agreed upon release was the group's worst

    I am genuinely curious if anyone can offer an alternative perspective on it

    If you don't have anything to contribute, then don't clutter up the thread

    At one time, this was a board where people were not hostile to the very idea of discussing music, and it's sad that that's mostly been lost

    Translation: "I've been dying to use that Bowel Movement joke I thought of!"

    Whatever though...I'll bow out. Hopefully Deej or somebody can convince you that it's worthy enough to keep!

  • motown67motown67 4,513 Posts
    I gotta agree with Faux and Big Stacks on this. ATCQ were one of my all time fav groups and when I heard Beats, Rhymes, and Life I felt extremely let down. The last album even more so. It appeared to me that they'd run their course and their creative juices just weren't flowing any more.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    batmon said:
    1. "Start It Up" - whatevs
    2 "Find a Way" - classic
    3 "Da Booty" - yes
    4 "Steppin' It Up" - cool
    5 "Like It like That" - cool
    6 "Common Ground (Get It Goin' On)" - cool
    7 "4 Moms" - yes
    8 "His Name Is Mutty Ranks" - alright
    9 "Give Me" - Hells to the yeah
    10 "Pad & Pen" - ehh
    11 "Busta's Lament" - cool
    12 "Hot 4 U" - nah
    13 "Against the World" - alright
    14 "The Love" - yes
    15 "Rock Rock Y'all" - cool

    Not a GREAT album but above average.....7.5

    Can you explain what you like about the 'alright' to 'cool' tracks?

  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    Herm said:
    Big_Stacks said:
    Herm said:
    C'mon man. No one's going to "sell" you on this. You just want to hate. You don't like it? Keep the 12", get rid of the album and K.I.M.

    Simple, no?

    Hey Herm,

    As much as I absolutely love ATCQ (one of my favorite rap groups ever), I never liked the last two LPs very much. The problem simply is that they set a really high bar with their first 3 LPs, and the last two joints just didn't live up to the standard. I wouldn't say Dilla had anything to do with it, but instead, the group members seemed to grow apart.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

    Sorry Stacks! My comment wasn't directed at you. I was just calling out Faux on his "sincere" attempt to have a site full of "little dudes" help change his mind on an album he doesn't like.

    For what it's worth, I agree with you on those albums.

    Carry on.

    Hey Herm,

    It's all good, mane, you know how we do. And what do you mean "sincere"? Fauxy is always sincere ;-) .

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Herm said:
    faux_rillz said:
    Herm said:
    C'mon man. No one's going to "sell" you on this. You just want to hate. You don't like it? Keep the 12", get rid of the album and K.I.M.

    Simple, no?

    No, I do not "just want to hate"--if I did, there are certainly much more interesting targets than a 12-year-old album that everyone agreed upon release was the group's worst

    I am genuinely curious if anyone can offer an alternative perspective on it

    If you don't have anything to contribute, then don't clutter up the thread

    At one time, this was a board where people were not hostile to the very idea of discussing music, and it's sad that that's mostly been lost

    Translation: "I've been dying to use that Bowel Movement joke I thought of!"

    Whatever though...I'll bow out. Hopefully Deej or somebody can convince you that it's worthy enough to keep!

    I didn't think of that joke--a lot of people were calling the album that within a few years of its release.

    Again, Herm: if you don't like the idea of people debating music, what are you doing on this board? And if you feel that way about my thread, why are you even in it?

    Something personal maybe?

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    faux_rillz said:
    batmon said:
    1. "Start It Up" - whatevs
    2 "Find a Way" - classic
    3 "Da Booty" - yes
    4 "Steppin' It Up" - cool
    5 "Like It like That" - cool
    6 "Common Ground (Get It Goin' On)" - cool
    7 "4 Moms" - yes
    8 "His Name Is Mutty Ranks" - alright
    9 "Give Me" - Hells to the yeah
    10 "Pad & Pen" - ehh
    11 "Busta's Lament" - cool
    12 "Hot 4 U" - nah
    13 "Against the World" - alright
    14 "The Love" - yes
    15 "Rock Rock Y'all" - cool

    Not a GREAT album but above average.....7.5

    Can you explain what you like about the 'alright' to 'cool' tracks?

    Buster's Lament iirc was the Instrumental joint which was a nice "change" within the album.

    i dont have it in front of me to really breekdown, but i never hatted the mediocre/filler joints on the album.
    I was happy to get a grown Tribe instaed of the 90's AirMax Tribe that they moved away from.
    Slicker sound w/ some Grown Man Raps.

    I played alot of that album out when it dropped. And shit worked on the dancefloor or whatever the mood was.
    Nice big clean sound.

  • UnherdUnherd 1,880 Posts
    faux_rillz said:
    I could find very little to like about it beyond "Find a Way,"

    What about the nore verse, that shit's classic. If I'm remembering correctly, he REALLY got his bus' on..

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    [
    i dont have it in front of me to really breekdown, but i never hatted the mediocre/filler joints on the album.
    I was happy to get a grown Tribe instaed of the 90's AirMax Tribe that they moved away from.
    Slicker sound w/ some Grown Man Raps.

    I played alot of that album out when it dropped. And shit worked on the dancefloor or whatever the mood was.
    Nice big clean sound.

    I don't really hear it as 'slicker' or 'clean'

    It was sparse, definitely, but a lot of it strikes me as sloppy: the rhyming but, especially, the way the rhyming doesn't seem to gel with the production.

    I am curious to know what you thought of Amplified which a lot of people hated on, but which I think successfully recaptured some of the Tribe aesthetic.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Unherd said:
    faux_rillz said:
    I could find very little to like about it beyond "Find a Way,"

    What about the nore verse, that shit's classic. If I'm remembering correctly, he REALLY got his bus' on..

    I appreciated it conceptually as a somewhat unexpected collaboration, but didn't think it really worked.

  • Hotsauce84Hotsauce84 8,450 Posts
    faux_rillz said:
    Herm said:
    faux_rillz said:
    Herm said:
    C'mon man. No one's going to "sell" you on this. You just want to hate. You don't like it? Keep the 12", get rid of the album and K.I.M.

    Simple, no?

    No, I do not "just want to hate"--if I did, there are certainly much more interesting targets than a 12-year-old album that everyone agreed upon release was the group's worst

    I am genuinely curious if anyone can offer an alternative perspective on it

    If you don't have anything to contribute, then don't clutter up the thread

    At one time, this was a board where people were not hostile to the very idea of discussing music, and it's sad that that's mostly been lost

    Translation: "I've been dying to use that Bowel Movement joke I thought of!"

    Whatever though...I'll bow out. Hopefully Deej or somebody can convince you that it's worthy enough to keep!

    I didn't think of that joke--a lot of people were calling the album that within a few years of its release.

    Again, Herm: if you don't like the idea of people debating music, what are you doing on this board? And if you feel that way about my thread, why are you even in it?

    Something personal maybe?

    Of course not! I don't even know you like that. I just have a bad habit of calling people who are always calling other people out out. (That made sense in my head.) Plus you're ALWAYS giving people shit - I'm pretty sure most would agree that's a fact - so I just give it back to you. Last time I did this though a good 'Strut friend got mad at me so I'm trying to get better.

    I still don't think anybody can say anything to change your mind about this album and I think you knew that when you started this thread.

    Nevermind that, though. Onwards to mass debation!

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Herm said:

    I still don't think anybody can say anything to change your mind about this album and I think you knew that when you started this thread.

    I don't know why--I've changed my mind about lots of rap-related things through kicking them around on message boards. One example: I've come to view BR&L differently as a partial result of things Jake One poasted about it.

    In any case, the point of the thread is not whether or not anybody is ultimately successful in changing my mind--it's to give me and anyone else who reads/contributes to it something to think about.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Never even bothered to pick up a copy.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    Never even bothered to pick up a copy.

    Why?

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    [
    i dont have it in front of me to really breekdown, but i never hatted the mediocre/filler joints on the album.
    I was happy to get a grown Tribe instaed of the 90's AirMax Tribe that they moved away from.
    Slicker sound w/ some Grown Man Raps.

    I played alot of that album out when it dropped. And shit worked on the dancefloor or whatever the mood was.
    Nice big clean sound.

    I don't really hear it as 'slicker' or 'clean'

    It was sparse, definitely, but a lot of it strikes me as sloppy: the rhyming but, especially, the way the rhyming doesn't seem to gel with the production.

    I am curious to know what you thought of Amplified which a lot of people hated on, but which I think successfully recaptured some of the Tribe aesthetic.

    Weve discussed Amplified before. Its my shit, and is better than Love movement.

    But I dont really wanna connect the two. Muhhamad probably had some input on Love and other Tribe albums. AMP was Q-Tip.

    Ill say that the rhyming was a half steps behind the production but it wasnt that much of deal breaker to me.

    Phife wasnt that same hype man anymore. Dude had lost some zest....IMO.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    faux_rillz said:
    HarveyCanal said:
    Never even bothered to pick up a copy.

    Why?

    Hated the single, previewed other tracks off the album when it came out and found myself not interested in it AT ALL. And that's coming from someone who LOVED Tribe and even liked Beats, Rhymes & Life quite a bit.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    batmon said:

    Phife wasnt that same hype man anymore. Dude had lost some zest....IMO.

    He fell off hard--not just his rhyming, but something in his voice changed, maybe related to his medical issues.

    Listening to it now, I have the distinct sense that him and Tip weren't even speaking to each other

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Once in a blue moon, I go back to both BRL and TLM just to see what I hear different. Oddly, I think BRL has aged slighty better but only because I really disliked it when it first came out and over time, I've hated it less but probably not by much. I just took a peak at the tracklisting to remind myself what was on there and it reminded, "oh yeah, a lot of this was weak."

    In contrast, I liked TLM better when it first came out and every subsequent listen has made it less and less compelling (which is to say that it went from a B to a C or lower).

    Personally, I thought "Busta's Lament" had good production, as did "LIke It Like That" and "Find a Way" (I used to be more enamored of the beat on "Rock Rock Ya'll" until I heard Craig G's "Take the Bait" and realized it sonned the shit out of Tribe's flip of the same Watts 103rd track). But TLM, like BRL, both lack any common consistency that drew the album together as a whole.

    I wouldn't sell my copy of the LP but it's not exactly "most favored status" either.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    mannybolone said:
    But TLM, like BRL, both lack any common consistency that drew the album together as a whole.

    I don't think consistency is either album's problem. If anything, I think they're too consistent. Especially BRL which I think is cool taken as a whole, but I can't name a single song off it other then the ones with the R&B hooks--they just all blend together to me.

    I wouldn't sell my copy of the LP but it's not exactly "most favored status" either.

    Why hang onto an album that you grade a "C"? Pure completionism? At one point Tribe was my favorite group--they're still up there--and getting rid of one of their albums would have been unthinkable to me. Is that it?

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,473 Posts
    Over the years, I've had several folks get on that "Give TLM another try--it's better than you think" tip with me, and...no. It's not "better than you think." It's still a weak album. BRL definitely has its moments ("Jam" cracks the list of top 10 ATCQ songs to me), but it's uneven overall.

  • edpowersedpowers 4,437 Posts
    Once ATCQ introduced Jay Dee and Consequence, it was a wrap.......Beats,Rhymes,Life was the group trying too hard, Love Moment was the opposite......both resulting in failure...........The songs on Love Moment are decent, but, as a whole the album is bland and lifeless. It was obvious Muhammad had a larger role/influence in the production, the overall sound being more Neo-HopLucyPearlOkayPlayer than breaks yo!.......It was a good cd to have if you were having female company 12 years ago, in 2010 it's a coaster............save "Start it up","Find my Way" and "The Love"... toss the rest.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    faux_rillz said:
    mannybolone said:
    But TLM, like BRL, both lack any common consistency that drew the album together as a whole.

    I don't think consistency is either album's problem. If anything, I think they're too consistent. Especially BRL which I think is cool taken as a whole, but I can't name a single song off it other then the ones with the R&B hooks--they just all blend together to me.

    I wouldn't sell my copy of the LP but it's not exactly "most favored status" either.

    Why hang onto an album that you grade a "C"? Pure completionism? At one point Tribe was my favorite group--they're still up there--and getting rid of one of their albums would have been unthinkable to me. Is that it?

    I don't have a logical explanation. Especially during this "purge" phase, most of my decisions are being made on emotional/gut level rather than anything really thought out. I don't dislike the BRL LP enough to get rid of it and it only takes up a 1/3 of an inch of space (of course, multiple the same thinking x 1000...)

    Re: consistency. TLM is a hodge-podge of different styles (musically) and whatever remaining chemistry between TIp and Phife existed seems pretty far gone by this point. BRL is more consistent overall but the song that fall flat really really fall flat to me, rather than a consistent "decent" sound the whole way through.

  • batmon said:

    1. "Start It Up" - plodding
    2 "Find a Way" - effectively dizzy success
    3 "Da Booty" - paced, funky, a stoic hit, sardonic
    4 "Steppin' It Up" - open parentheses, no boil
    5 "Like It like That" - gluey, dope, classic track
    6 "Common Ground (Get It Goin' On)" - weasels in, irresistible
    7 "4 Moms" - tension/ice breaker
    8 "His Name Is Mutty Ranks" - slow and steady, predictable
    9 "Give Me" - very eighth-grader, thumps
    10 "Pad & Pen" - this is the sentimental goodbye, as opposed to the love,
    11 "Busta's Lament" - maudlin, lethargic
    12 "Hot 4 U" - spacey, great timing, compact
    13 "Against the World" - a little demo sounding, unfinished
    14 "The Love" - slightly insincere (no pun intended), but still ghostly dope
    15 "Rock Rock Y'all" - not cluttered, head nodder

    don't discard

    lack of charisma
    or lack of a more palpable relationship between phife and tip
    or any other perceived weaknesses
    didn't damn this album
    but did result in a somewhat wet sparkler

  • quality ratio should look more like

    4/1

    and less like

    3/2
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