It just seems a little conspiratorially-minded to think that there's that much concern about peaceful protesters that law enforcement agencies would devote resources to actively discrediting them.
I agree that it seems a little paranoid, but I can attest from experience that police infiltration of virtually any political organization other than Young Democrats/Young Republicans goes waaaay beyond what anyone would reasonably expect, or what any cop should reasonably be doing with his/her time. Particularly in towns with large universities, and particularly when said towns are rather miniscule apart from the student population, cops get involved in almost every half-assed "anarchist meeting" at the coffee shop; I've been told, though I haven't got any proof of this assertion, that attendance at such meetings is a way to gain departmental brownie points for people still in school who eventually plan to join the PD, and I've certainly been at some allegedly political functions shut down for "noise" or "disturbing the peace" that could hardly have been heard by someone standing at the front door, much less by neighbors or a homeowners' association.
So do you want to give us an example, maybe, like, a fact or something.
I've read that those idiots you see at Tea Parties and other Conservative gatherings with signs that say "Get A Brain! Morans" and such are actually left wing plants designed to discredit.
I've read that those idiots you see at Tea Parties and other Conservative gatherings with signs that say "Get A Brain! Morans" and such are actually left wing plants designed to discredit.
Sometimes I'd like to smash some windows and tip over some cop cars. Voting democrat, watching MSNBC, and griping via the internet about the new gilded age hasn't seemed to be paying off much.
I've read that those idiots you see at Tea Parties and other Conservative gatherings with signs that say "Get A Brain! Morans" and such are actually left wing plants designed to discredit.
Does anyone here think that could be true??
Of course! At least some of them. But that is a bit different.
It just seems a little conspiratorially-minded to think that there's that much concern about peaceful protesters that law enforcement agencies would devote resources to actively discrediting them.
I agree that it seems a little paranoid, but I can attest from experience that police infiltration of virtually any political organization other than Young Democrats/Young Republicans goes waaaay beyond what anyone would reasonably expect, or what any cop should reasonably be doing with his/her time. Particularly in towns with large universities, and particularly when said towns are rather miniscule apart from the student population, cops get involved in almost every half-assed "anarchist meeting" at the coffee shop; I've been told, though I haven't got any proof of this assertion, that attendance at such meetings is a way to gain departmental brownie points for people still in school who eventually plan to join the PD, and I've certainly been at some allegedly political functions shut down for "noise" or "disturbing the peace" that could hardly have been heard by someone standing at the front door, much less by neighbors or a homeowners' association.
So do you want to give us an example, maybe, like, a fact or something.
It just seems a little conspiratorially-minded to think that there's that much concern about peaceful protesters that law enforcement agencies would devote resources to actively discrediting them.
I agree that it seems a little paranoid, but I can attest from experience that police infiltration of virtually any political organization other than Young Democrats/Young Republicans goes waaaay beyond what anyone would reasonably expect, or what any cop should reasonably be doing with his/her time. Particularly in towns with large universities, and particularly when said towns are rather miniscule apart from the student population, cops get involved in almost every half-assed "anarchist meeting" at the coffee shop; I've been told, though I haven't got any proof of this assertion, that attendance at such meetings is a way to gain departmental brownie points for people still in school who eventually plan to join the PD, and I've certainly been at some allegedly political functions shut down for "noise" or "disturbing the peace" that could hardly have been heard by someone standing at the front door, much less by neighbors or a homeowners' association.
So do you want to give us an example, maybe, like, a fact or something.
It just seems a little conspiratorially-minded to think that there's that much concern about peaceful protesters that law enforcement agencies would devote resources to actively discrediting them.
I agree that it seems a little paranoid, but I can attest from experience that police infiltration of virtually any political organization other than Young Democrats/Young Republicans goes waaaay beyond what anyone would reasonably expect, or what any cop should reasonably be doing with his/her time. Particularly in towns with large universities, and particularly when said towns are rather miniscule apart from the student population, cops get involved in almost every half-assed "anarchist meeting" at the coffee shop; I've been told, though I haven't got any proof of this assertion, that attendance at such meetings is a way to gain departmental brownie points for people still in school who eventually plan to join the PD, and I've certainly been at some allegedly political functions shut down for "noise" or "disturbing the peace" that could hardly have been heard by someone standing at the front door, much less by neighbors or a homeowners' association.
So do you want to give us an example, maybe, like, a fact or something.
Yeah, I agree that, as a police tactic it could be a bit disconcerting (especially if you're involved in a peaceful protest), but I can still see why the police would potentially have an interest in being able to monitor protests undercover. The rocks in hands is weird, to say the least, though.
What I was wondering about/taking issue with in my initial post is the assertion that I've seen made that the purpose of the police presence there was not to just "locate and identify non-peaceful protesters in order to prevent any incidents", but rather as a way of discrediting or sabotaging peaceful protesters.
Then someone says something like this:
Actually??? There was more than just rocks in hand invovled.
Without providing any links or an explanation and I'm left to scratch my head.
DOR said:
Some more craziness from Saturday. Which no black bloc were involved. Just more peaceful protest.
What point in the day was this? Was this after there had already been the confrontations between police and violent confrontations. It's really depressing that these things always seem to end this way. A bunch of "anarchists" tag along with the peaceful protesters, necessitating some sort of police presence, the presence of police gets people feeling agitated, and the tailspin is already well underway. In no way is this meant to excuse egregious abuses of power, but in some of these situations, putting a camera right in the face of a bunch of pissed off cops is like putting yourself almost directly in harms way. I wish it weren't so, but some of these citizen journalists really do need to exercise a bit more caution, given the situation. Shrug.
Actually??? There was more than just rocks in hand invovled.
Without providing any links or an explanation and I'm left to scratch my head.
Well, I didn't realize I needed to post explanation. You can watch this video which goes into some of it.
And as far as what time of the day was it. This was before shit went down with the black bloc.
And I'm not sure if your classification of the reporter in the video above is a citizen journalists. He's a reporter for TRNN which is a "television news and documentary network focused on providing independent and uncompromising journalism".
I attended the rally yesterday I posted above.
I think protests are important tools, but they are useless during G20. The people who need to hear you don???t. And history has shown that these summit protests all fall apart, get derailed and work against what people are trying to do. It takes another kind of activism imho when it comes to G20 issues.
I went yesterday because the f*ckry of Sunday can not pass without a response.
It went really well and I feel like it did good to have a calm, sunny and uneventful march after this weekend.
I wouldn???t say it was not tense, though ??? not with lines of police everywhere you looked.
When we were waiting for it to start, four cops walked up to this young black kid next to us.
The cops took his info and searched his plastic shopping bag that had his light gray hoodie and a paper in it. After they were done, we told him to come and stand next to us. He told us he saw them searching other people and how he???s in high school, etc. (EDIT - I should mention that at this point he put his hoodie on and chucked the bag and paper) As we???re talking, less than five minutes have gone by and another four cops roll up on the kid and try to take his info. He tells them he just gave it to the other cops, who are still close enough to be pointed out and we back him up.
No one else was approached/questions/searched. We all had bags.
The rally lasted two hours in front of police HQ but the speakers were really hard to hear.
A couple of people were pulled out, searched and let go.
The HQ has balconies all the way up and there were police filming and taking pictures of the crowd. There were also random police staff watching.
At one point, this couple in front of us started yelling ???jump jump jump jump??? to which four or five us reacted right away and told them to stop.
There was a bit of a back and forth and that was that.
Then we marched for two hours and that went well, too.
It ended at Queen???s Park (provincial legislative building) with more speakers.
There were oodles of plainclothes police everywhere and for fun I followed a pair of them around just to watch.
It???s ridiculous ??? they stand out like sore thumbs and you wish they would just be in uniform and save everyone the farce.
Comments
So do you want to give us an example, maybe, like, a fact or something.
Does anyone here think that could be true??
unpossible.
Of course! At least some of them. But that is a bit different.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/08/23/police-montebello.html
there you go, rock in hand, masks on faces.
Actually... There was more than just rocks in hand invovled.
Some more craziness from Saturday. Which no black bloc were involved. Just more peaceful protest.
Yeah, I agree that, as a police tactic it could be a bit disconcerting (especially if you're involved in a peaceful protest), but I can still see why the police would potentially have an interest in being able to monitor protests undercover. The rocks in hands is weird, to say the least, though.
What I was wondering about/taking issue with in my initial post is the assertion that I've seen made that the purpose of the police presence there was not to just "locate and identify non-peaceful protesters in order to prevent any incidents", but rather as a way of discrediting or sabotaging peaceful protesters.
Then someone says something like this:
Without providing any links or an explanation and I'm left to scratch my head.
What point in the day was this? Was this after there had already been the confrontations between police and violent confrontations. It's really depressing that these things always seem to end this way. A bunch of "anarchists" tag along with the peaceful protesters, necessitating some sort of police presence, the presence of police gets people feeling agitated, and the tailspin is already well underway. In no way is this meant to excuse egregious abuses of power, but in some of these situations, putting a camera right in the face of a bunch of pissed off cops is like putting yourself almost directly in harms way. I wish it weren't so, but some of these citizen journalists really do need to exercise a bit more caution, given the situation. Shrug.
Here's another one for people to read: http://torontoist.com/2010/06/g20_dispatches_mad_mad_mad_mad_world.php
Well, I didn't realize I needed to post explanation. You can watch this video which goes into some of it.
And as far as what time of the day was it. This was before shit went down with the black bloc.
And I'm not sure if your classification of the reporter in the video above is a citizen journalists. He's a reporter for TRNN which is a "television news and documentary network focused on providing independent and uncompromising journalism".
I think protests are important tools, but they are useless during G20. The people who need to hear you don???t. And history has shown that these summit protests all fall apart, get derailed and work against what people are trying to do. It takes another kind of activism imho when it comes to G20 issues.
I went yesterday because the f*ckry of Sunday can not pass without a response.
It went really well and I feel like it did good to have a calm, sunny and uneventful march after this weekend.
I wouldn???t say it was not tense, though ??? not with lines of police everywhere you looked.
When we were waiting for it to start, four cops walked up to this young black kid next to us.
The cops took his info and searched his plastic shopping bag that had his light gray hoodie and a paper in it. After they were done, we told him to come and stand next to us. He told us he saw them searching other people and how he???s in high school, etc. (EDIT - I should mention that at this point he put his hoodie on and chucked the bag and paper) As we???re talking, less than five minutes have gone by and another four cops roll up on the kid and try to take his info. He tells them he just gave it to the other cops, who are still close enough to be pointed out and we back him up.
No one else was approached/questions/searched. We all had bags.
The rally lasted two hours in front of police HQ but the speakers were really hard to hear.
A couple of people were pulled out, searched and let go.
The HQ has balconies all the way up and there were police filming and taking pictures of the crowd. There were also random police staff watching.
At one point, this couple in front of us started yelling ???jump jump jump jump??? to which four or five us reacted right away and told them to stop.
There was a bit of a back and forth and that was that.
Then we marched for two hours and that went well, too.
It ended at Queen???s Park (provincial legislative building) with more speakers.
There were oodles of plainclothes police everywhere and for fun I followed a pair of them around just to watch.
It???s ridiculous ??? they stand out like sore thumbs and you wish they would just be in uniform and save everyone the farce.
Then if you watch a video someone posted on here earlier and take a good look at :45 seconds in...