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Cal Tjader vs Herbie Mann

FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
edited March 2010 in Strut Central
Who's king of the super common ethnic carpetbagging jazz bins?I think I have like 50 records by each of these guys. I went through them over the past week trying to weed out the shit and was amazed at how consistently good they are. Both started out playing relatively straight ahead jazz and went on to explore other "ethnic" styles. Mann was all over the place while Tjader stuck to the Latin thing.I think Mann's group with Roy Ayers, Sonny Sharock, Ahmed Abdul Malik and Brunno Carr was perfect. But I'm gonna have to give it to Tjader.

  Comments

  • CousinLarryCousinLarry 4,618 Posts
    Did Cal have any awful disco Jazz records a la Herbie? If not he wins, otherwise it is a toss up.
  • fishmongerfunkfishmongerfunk 4,154 Posts
    well, cal has a few records i actually enjoy...

    plugged in, agua dulce, tjader and funky quarters are all worth a listen.

    i chucked all my herbie mann years ago...
  • dwyhajlodwyhajlo 420 Posts
    I enjoy(ed) Mann's Stone Flute way more than any of the Cal Tjader records I ever heard. So, in that respect, Mann wins because he managed to put out a record that I'd actually want to listen to once in a while.
  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    The dollarbinness of Herbie Mann LPs certainly undermines the quality of the music, but Push Push and Memphis Underground, for example, are very good records. Some of Herbie Mann's disco stuff is really good (worth getting as 12" singles). But you could argue that those are actually Patrick Adams records.

    I think I'm going for Tjader on the strength of his "red" Fantasy records. Those among his transition from modal to latin jazz.
  • The_Hook_UpThe_Hook_Up 8,182 Posts
    Cal FTW for me.

    This is a fave of mine:
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    What Tjader records--aside from the two with Eddie Palmieri--are not complete cheez? I have yet to hear any that I could get with.
  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    I like this one...

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    I like this one...


    Yeah, I forgot about that one. Although note again the presence of a Palmieri.
  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    I like this one...


    Yeah, I forgot about that one. Although note again the presence of a Palmieri.

    Yep...and Puente, takes it to a whole other level of authenticity, even with the electric keyboard (I don't know, is that a Rhodes?) in the mix.
  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    What Tjader records--aside from the two with Eddie Palmieri--are not complete cheez? I have yet to hear any that I could get with.

    There are a couple early ones on Fantasy with Sonny Clark. Have you heard those?
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    What Tjader records--aside from the two with Eddie Palmieri--are not complete cheez? I have yet to hear any that I could get with.

    Do you really think the Skye records are cheese?

    Solar Heat is practically perfect.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    What Tjader records--aside from the two with Eddie Palmieri--are not complete cheez? I have yet to hear any that I could get with.

    There are a couple early ones on Fantasy with Sonny Clark. Have you heard those?

    Possibly--titles?
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    What Tjader records--aside from the two with Eddie Palmieri--are not complete cheez? I have yet to hear any that I could get with.

    Do you really think the Skye records are cheese?

    Solar Heat is practically perfect.

    No, I haven't listened to Solar Heat, but I will--I am asking for recommendations.

    I've listened to various Fantasy recordings from throughout his career, and haven't really been able to get with any of them. Also some Verve stuff.
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    What Tjader records--aside from the two with Eddie Palmieri--are not complete cheez? I have yet to hear any that I could get with.

    Do you really think the Skye records are cheese?

    Solar Heat is practically perfect.

    No, I haven't listened to Solar Heat, but I will--I am asking for recommendations.

    I've listened to various Fantasy recordings from throughout his career, and haven't really been able to get with any of them. Also some Verve stuff.

    In that case I recommend all three of the Skyes. They sound incredible on a good system also.
  • fishmongerfunkfishmongerfunk 4,154 Posts
    those skye records have certain "warmth" to them
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    What Tjader records--aside from the two with Eddie Palmieri--are not complete cheez? I have yet to hear any that I could get with.

    Do you really think the Skye records are cheese?

    Solar Heat is practically perfect.

    No, I haven't listened to Solar Heat, but I will--I am asking for recommendations.

    I've listened to various Fantasy recordings from throughout his career, and haven't really been able to get with any of them. Also some Verve stuff.

    In that case I recommend all three of the Skyes. They sound incredible on a good system also.

    I will check them out.
  • neil_somethingneil_something 993 Posts
    Here's a great Cal Tjader (from 1980, I think):

  • CousinLarryCousinLarry 4,618 Posts
    Cal's Shades of Jade on Verve is good, arranged by Lalo too.
  • pcmrpcmr 5,591 Posts
    i love the skye stuff and the early as well as fantasy stuff
    he has a more refined cheeze later compared to other jazz dudes
    herbie mann on the other hand
    i've sold everything xcept the bill evans collabo
  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    What Tjader records--aside from the two with Eddie Palmieri--are not complete cheez? I have yet to hear any that I could get with.

    There are a couple early ones on Fantasy with Sonny Clark. Have you heard those?

    Possibly--titles?

    One is called Plays Tjazz. The other escapes me, but it's green cover with blue writing. It think it's just called Cal Tjader. His Fantasy stuff from 54-60 is better overall IMO.
  • ReynaldoReynaldo 6,054 Posts

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts

    dude, this is pretty much exactly what I am talking about

    "collegiate mambo"

    wack
  • ReynaldoReynaldo 6,054 Posts

    dude, this is pretty much exactly what I am talking about

    "collegiate mambo"

    wack
    Haha. Yeah, it's watered down but he's backed by legit Cuban players so it's not as watered down as it could be.
  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts

    dude, this is pretty much exactly what I am talking about

    "collegiate mambo"

    wack

    Wack on the surface, maybe, but look deeper and he's playing vibes over guys like Mongo Santamaria and Willie Bobo and that stuff cooks way more often than not.

    I agree with Horseleech, those Skye LPs are consistently good to great, and I recommend The Prophet on Verve as well. This one is also very nice:



    But while we are here, I will also testify to the consistent goodness of Herbie Mann, even some of his disco tracks are good. More better dollar binners from Mr Mann, probably by a mile, just because the Tjader stuff is not as prevalent.
  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts




    Yep, that's a pretty good one as well.
  • CosmophonicCosmophonic 1,172 Posts
    I was at a friend's house last week. He was weeding through a pile of things he was going to sell. He pulled this out



    I have it, but hadn't listened to it in ages. It spun, I read a comic book, he sorted through some other stuff, after a while we agreed that this record is really really good... background music.

    Memphis Underground however is a f*cking good album through and through.
  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    [color: green]Memphis Underground however is a f*cking good album through and through.[/color]

    The title track is the main reason I bought that LP...and the only song on the album that I go back to.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts

    nice breakface
  • CosmophonicCosmophonic 1,172 Posts

    nice breakface

    And very appropriately so.
  • hendravishendravis 689 Posts

    still listen to this one every now and then..
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