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is it the needle or the record or what?

mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
edited February 2010 in Strut Central
I was digitizing the new Myron and E single on Timmion and I was getting hella harsh sounds off my needle on certain, louder parts of the song. I wasn't sure what was going on so I tried swapping out needles and sure enough, the "harshness" was some what lessened depending on which cart was installed. I'm not crazy right? This clip has the same section three times.1) Ortofon Nightclub E2) Shure White Label3) Shure M44-7What I want to know is: why does the Ortofon sound the *worst* of the three?

  Comments

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    I couldn't tell you for sure, but the Ortofon is the hottest of the three, and less forgiving of vinyl noise. I can notice this even when just dropping or picking up the needle - the 'pop' is definitely more pronounced.

    Edit: Actually, the M44 is pretty hot, too, but Shure styli are known for their ability to track rough patches with forgiveness. The 45 sounds like it's poorly cut, IMO.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Yeah, I'm wondering if the issue here is that the pressing is pretty crappy and the Ortofon is just better at noticing how bad it is. No offense to Timmion - I luh them dudes - but this new single sounds hella rough (and not in a good way).

    I'm listening to that Little Ann LP and same deal: on louder, more treble-y notes, there's that harsh, buzzy edge when I'm playing it on my Ortofon. When I switch to the M44-7, the buzz is gone.

    This is driving me kind of nuts now. I'm starting to wonder - after trying out two new carts in the last few years, maybe I should have just stuck with my 44-7s!!
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    Yeah, I'm wondering if the issue here is that the pressing is pretty crappy and the Ortofon is just better at noticing how bad it is.

    I wouldn't quite put it that way. It sounds to me like the 45 was cut too loud and the Ortofon is having a hard time dealing with it 'cos it's so hot to begin with and it's literally shaking in the grooves. A higher tracking weight might help it out, but I think Shures (which have a different stylus shape) are just better at tracking this sort of thing.
  • the_dLthe_dL 1,531 Posts
    Yeah, I'm wondering if the issue here is that the pressing is pretty crappy and the Ortofon is just better at noticing how bad it is. No offense to Timmion - I luh them dudes - but this new single sounds hella rough (and not in a good way).
    it is much like monitor speakers i would say, but I have 3 or 4 different ortofon stylus that i use and each is a slightly different age, and all of them sound noticeably different with some recordings and no different with others, so its not just you going crazy
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Yeah, I'm wondering if the issue here is that the pressing is pretty crappy and the Ortofon is just better at noticing how bad it is.

    I wouldn't quite put it that way. It sounds to me like the 45 was cut too loud and the Ortofon is having a hard time dealing with it 'cos it's so hot to begin with and it's literally shaking in the grooves. A higher tracking weight might help it out, but I think Shures (which have a different stylus shape) are just better at tracking this sort of thing.

    Good points. Just to maintain sanity, I threw my 44-7 to digitize this Little Ann LP.

    F*ck man, I'm <i>totally</i> turning into an audiophile. This is not good.
  • waxjunkywaxjunky 1,849 Posts
    This is not good.

    It's definitely a slippery slope for someone who already has a record jones. I try not to dwell on things too much, for fear of heading down the same road. That's the last thing I need.
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    This is not good.

    It's definitely a slippery slope for someone who already has a record jones. I try not to dwell on things too much, for fear of heading down the same road. That's the last thing I need.

    It's too late for me.

    SAVE YOURSELF.
  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts
    I've been struggling with this recently also. Same problem, only more high end hiss like distortions on the loader parts. It seems to happen more with 45s, most lps play fine.

    Most annoying when you have an EX 45, with no pops & crackles, then as soon as it goes from quite to load, distortion and noise.

    I was thinking about splashing out on a fancy new needle but I don't think I'll bother now I've read this.
  • Rich45sRich45s 327 Posts
    I believe Neil Young wrote a song about this.
  • MjukisMjukis 1,675 Posts
    Yeah, the Myron & E single sounds pretty harsh. Is the Now Again version on a better press?
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    I've been struggling with this recently also. Same problem, only more high end hiss like distortions on the loader parts. It seems to happen more with 45s, most lps play fine.

    Most annoying when you have an EX 45, with no pops & crackles, then as soon as it goes from quite to load, distortion and noise.

    I was thinking about splashing out on a fancy new needle but I don't think I'll bother now I've read this.

    I think it's just good to have 2-3 carts to choose from. I'm guess maybe the elliptical head on the Ortofon is what's causing problems here though, usually, it's better sounding with other/most records.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Yeah, the Myron & E single sounds pretty harsh. Is the Now Again version on a better press?

    I don't think Now Again is pressing it; only distro. I could be wrong about that though. What I got from Timmion was their promo version.
  • 4YearGraduate4YearGraduate 2,945 Posts
    What you are hearing is distortion.

    With brickwall limiting music is getting louder and louder (see loudness wars debate) and to compound the situation cartridge voltage outputs are louder now by years of scratch dj idiacy consumer demand.

    It is very possible the distortion your are hearing is in your pre and not the cartridge, it's jut that ultra hot pressing+too loud music+loud cartiridge output is more than the rails of your pre can handle.

    I'll bet the favorible change you are hearing is coming from a lowe output voltage and thus less preamplifier distortion. Not nec the needle or the pressing but they all o hand in hand to create a clusterfuck.

    Preamplifier with higher dc rails will
    make the most difference.
  • 4YearGraduate4YearGraduate 2,945 Posts
    Apologies for wierd typing.

    Bagel+iPhone NAGL
  • 4YearGraduate4YearGraduate 2,945 Posts
    That and th record is pobably not cut to riaa curve spec
  • pcmrpcmr 5,591 Posts
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    What you are hearing is distortion.

    With brickwall limiting music is getting louder and louder (see loudness wars debate) and to compound the situation cartridge voltage outputs are louder now by years of scratch dj idiacy consumer demand.

    It is very possible the distortion your are hearing is in your pre and not the cartridge, it's jut that ultra hot pressing+too loud music+loud cartiridge output is more than the rails of your pre can handle.

    I'll bet the favorible change you are hearing is coming from a lowe output voltage and thus less preamplifier distortion. Not nec the needle or the pressing but they all o hand in hand to create a clusterfuck.

    Preamplifier with higher dc rails will
    make the most difference.

    Well, I'll be buying a new pre-amp at some point for the home TT so we'll have to see again with that one.

    Enjoy the bagel. Holler back at the boy about dinner. Spicy crab, son!
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