Cassettes were about even with vinyl when Thriller came out and by '85 were outselling vinyl. (OK, I just made that up, some one else can google it.)
On the other hand... The demand for Thriller forced Sony to use independent pressing plants. Some plants that got an order for say 500,000 copies would press 600,000 and sell the extra 100,000 directly to Sam Goody. Again, I just made up the numbers, but the scam is detailed in the book Hit Men. Bootlegs that were identical to the official product.
I think there will be a huge market for A1 B1 stampers (if they denote first pressings) and other variations in the future.
MJ collectors in the future may be much like Beatles collectors. They will have a finite number of recordings and an infinite number of variations to collect.
But my question: so what happens to those hundreds (thousands?) of overpriced "Thrillers"? This is not a question of any significance, I'm just interested in the psychology of bubble economies and at least this one won't, you know, destroy the nation.
they will drop back to their original value when people realise what they bought was nothing but a load of hype. The people who paid top dollar will try to sell them to salvage any money they can from their "investments" whilst the prices are still high, yet this would increase their supply further, causing the market price of them to drop further leading to more
panic[/b] and more people selling their copies.
Holy shit, it's going to be the housing collapse all over again.
THANKS MJ
Will there be government help for people who are underwater and upside down on their MJ collectibles?
i agree, they aren't investments but any mj fan worth their salt would have already had these records. I think its partly opportunistic people, they see thriller for $4, see it selling on ebay for $40 so they want a slice of that nice quick buck.
Well, maybe as a compromise, I think it's quite possible there are MJ fans who have "Thriller" on some other format OTHER than LP but now want the LP as a collectible (full cover art!)
I'm curious from those who run stores - what have just the last few days been looking like?
But my question: so what happens to those hundreds (thousands?) of overpriced "Thrillers"? This is not a question of any significance, I'm just interested in the psychology of bubble economies and at least this one won't, you know, destroy the nation.
they will drop back to their original value when people realise what they bought was nothing but a load of hype. The people who paid top dollar will try to sell them to salvage any money they can from their "investments" whilst the prices are still high, yet this would increase their supply further, causing the market price of them to drop further leading to more
panic[/b] and more people selling their copies.
Holy shit, it's going to be the housing collapse all over again.
THANKS MJ
Will there be government help for people who are underwater and upside down on their MJ collectibles?
I've been getting calls since the day of, from people looking to unload their RARE, IN DEMAND Michael Jackson albums.
I got an interesting call this morning, from a guy who's father had been given a metal stamper for the Thriller album as a gift when he was working for a pressing plant or label or something. I just told him to put it on ebay and see what happens.
I've been getting calls since the day of, from people looking to unload their RARE, IN DEMAND Michael Jackson albums.
I got an interesting call this morning, from a guy who's father had been given a metal stamper for the Thriller album as a gift when he was working for a pressing plant or label or something. I just told him to put it on ebay and see what happens.
You still have any LPs left to sell? How they moving now?
MJ collectors in the future may be much like Beatles collectors.
You really think this would be the case though? I see them as distinctly different populations.
Reading that gear slut thread confirmed that not only are these great dance records, great 80s nostalgia and great Motown records, these are also great sounding records.
Yes distinctly different populations.
Beatles collectors are old and will start selling their collections off in about 10-20 years as they move into nursing homes. They will flood the market and the value of Beatles records will plummet. You think Michael sold a lot of records? Wait until those Beatles hoarders start unloading.
MJ collectors on the other had are younger. Mid 30s. These are prime collecting years. The years when you have the money to buy those records you loved when you were young. Let the hoarding begin!
But my question: so what happens to those hundreds (thousands?) of overpriced "Thrillers"? This is not a question of any significance, I'm just interested in the psychology of bubble economies and at least this one won't, you know, destroy the nation.
These $100 copies of "Thriler" will be permanently off the market, as they disappear into permament collections/shrines to MJ. If you pay $100 for something, and in a month someone offers you $1 for it, you're probably going to keep it on sheer principle.
With a gazillion copies sold, these tens of thousands of LPs will never be missed, however. One obvious point that we all know, but that no one has specifically mentioned, is that back when "Thriller" dropped, your choice was either LP or cassette tape. Not only did this record sell a lot of copies, it sold a lot of vinyl copies.
One obvious point that we all know, but that no one has specifically mentioned, is that back when "Thriller" dropped, your choice was either LP or cassette tape. Not only did this record sell a lot of copies, it sold a lot of vinyl copies.
I have specifically mentioned it. My point was the opposite. A lot of copies were cassette.
I think a lot of people were bidding through their tears and the next morning were having second thoughts. I bet some kind of record will be set for unpaid auctions.
B/W
There were 3,000 vinyl copies of Thriller up on ebay two days a go.
One obvious point that we all know, but that no one has specifically mentioned, is that back when "Thriller" dropped, your choice was either LP or cassette tape. Not only did this record sell a lot of copies, it sold a lot of vinyl copies.
I have specifically mentioned it. My point was the opposite. A lot of copies were cassette.
Touch??. Speaking from personal experience, my copy was also a cassette.
I think a lot of people were bidding through their tears and the next morning were having second thoughts. I bet some kind of record will be set for unpaid auctions.
B/W
There were 3,000 vinyl copies of Thriller up on ebay two days a go.
This is staggering. Add to that all the bootleg RIP buttons and T-Shirts everywhere and he could singlehandedly revive some peoples incomes from beyond the grave. I thought for a second it was exploitative but now I actually like this, and I now think he would be pleased.
Thriller came out in '82. According to your chart, vinyl accounted for 70% of sales that year.
Just speaking from personal experience, I would've assumed that the vast majority of copies sold were on vinyl.
Doesn't the graph show them even by '83? Then vinyl taking a sharp downturn and cassettes dominating the market?
Billie Jean was the first single off of Thriller. It hit #1 in 1983. The lp hit the charts Christmas of '82 and stayed in the top 40 more than 2 years well into 84'.
I'm not sure what your experience is, but mine would tell me the majority are cassette.
Thriller came out in '82. According to your chart, vinyl accounted for 70% of sales that year.
Just speaking from personal experience, I would've assumed that the vast majority of copies sold were on vinyl.
Doesn't the graph show them even by '83? Then vinyl taking a sharp downturn and cassettes dominating the market?
Billie Jean was the first single off of Thriller. It hit #1 in 1983. The lp hit the charts Christmas of '82 and stayed in the top 40 more than 2 years well into 84'.
I'm not sure what your experience is, but mine would tell me the majority are cassette.
Im MJ's case, at that time, folks wanted the bigger LP image, despite the cassette's space saver. The gatefold itself is part of the story.
But numbers dont lie. If cassettes were the thing at the time...well.
I guess the question is when did Thriller sell the most? In the first year or the second? And what are the vinyl:cassette ratios during each year?
Thriller came out in '82. According to your chart, vinyl accounted for 70% of sales that year.
Just speaking from personal experience, I would've assumed that the vast majority of copies sold were on vinyl.
Doesn't the graph show them even by '83? Then vinyl taking a sharp downturn and cassettes dominating the market?
Billie Jean was the first single off of Thriller. It hit #1 in 1983. The lp hit the charts Christmas of '82 and stayed in the top 40 more than 2 years well into 84'.
I'm not sure what your experience is, but mine would tell me the majority are cassette.
Im MJ's case, at that time, folks wanted the bigger LP image, despite the cassette's space saver. The gatefold itself is part of the story.
But numbers dont lie. If cassettes were the thing at the time...well.
I guess the question is when did Thriller sell the most? In the first year or the second? And what are the vinyl:cassette ratios during each year?
Yer, thriller was a gatefold, you're going to choose that over the cassette.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the cassettes had been junked by now, because most people don't value them. But lots of people hang on to their vinyl in the mistaken belief that it's worth something.
Thriller came out in '82. According to your chart, vinyl accounted for 70% of sales that year.
Just speaking from personal experience, I would've assumed that the vast majority of copies sold were on vinyl.
Doesn't the graph show them even by '83? Then vinyl taking a sharp downturn and cassettes dominating the market?
Billie Jean was the first single off of Thriller. It hit #1 in 1983. The lp hit the charts Christmas of '82 and stayed in the top 40 more than 2 years well into 84'.
I'm not sure what your experience is, but mine would tell me the majority are cassette.
Im MJ's case, at that time, folks wanted the bigger LP image, despite the cassette's space saver. The gatefold itself is part of the story.
But numbers dont lie. If cassettes were the thing at the time...well.
I guess the question is when did Thriller sell the most? In the first year or the second? And what are the vinyl:cassette ratios during each year?
One reason cassettes boomed is because of the increase in car players. Then the increase in boom boxes.
From Joel Whitburns Billboard book of Top 40 Albums. date it entered the top 40: 12/25/82 Peak position #1 for 37 weeks Number of weeks on the chart 91 2#1 hits, 1#2 hit, 1#4, 1#5, 1#7, 1#10 = 7 top ten singles.
There were 8 #1 lps in 1982. Thriller was not one of them.
Only 4 #1 lps in '84 Footloose, Sports (Huey Lewis), Born In The USA, Purple Rain.
Now back in the 80s there was no soundscan and labels lied about album sales. (today there is soundscan and they still lie.) Also as I said, pressing plants were backdooring 100s of 1,000s of copies.
So we can't know for sure how many were sold and how many were lps and how many were cassettes.
Millions of both, and it will never be a rarity.
My only point was that not all of the 40million sold were vinyl.
BTW: back about '83 the RIAA was trying to stop illegal home taping of music. According to the RIAA 7 illegal home copies were made of each album sold. So according to the RIAA there were 280,000,000 copies of Thriller, one for each man, woman and child in the USA.
So I went to EM downtown today and Crossroads and talked to the clerks.
Everyday Music said that before his death they were selling Thriller for $15-20 already. (This is a story that puts $20 on 2nd press Johnny Cash records. Put mostly moves lots of vinyl at under $5.00) They had 5 copies of Thriller on display from $10-40. They went to their warehouse and pulled all copies of Thriller. The $40 one had A1/B1 stampers. Clerks didn't seem to know about that. They said it was all about Thriller, not much interest in other titles.
Crossroads was sold out of Michael solo stuff and J5 but had still had the Jacksons.
Comments
Cassettes were about even with vinyl when Thriller came out and by '85 were outselling vinyl.
(OK, I just made that up, some one else can google it.)
On the other hand...
The demand for Thriller forced Sony to use independent pressing plants. Some plants that got an order for say 500,000 copies would press 600,000 and sell the extra 100,000 directly to Sam Goody. Again, I just made up the numbers, but the scam is detailed in the book Hit Men. Bootlegs that were identical to the official product.
I think there will be a huge market for A1 B1 stampers (if they denote first pressings) and other variations in the future.
MJ collectors in the future may be much like Beatles collectors.
They will have a finite number of recordings and an infinite number of variations to collect.
Will there be government help for people who are underwater and upside down on their MJ collectibles?
OK I googled it.
http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/31739041
I wonder how much I could get for my copy with a discolored plastic sleave, probably only $300.
Well, maybe as a compromise, I think it's quite possible there are MJ fans who have "Thriller" on some other format OTHER than LP but now want the LP as a collectible (full cover art!)
I'm curious from those who run stores - what have just the last few days been looking like?
I hear they're arranging a paypal workout plan.
You really think this would be the case though? I see them as distinctly different populations.
I got an interesting call this morning, from a guy who's father had been given a metal stamper for the Thriller album as a gift when he was working for a pressing plant or label or something. I just told him to put it on ebay and see what happens.
You still have any LPs left to sell? How they moving now?
I'm running a store, but I don't have any customers. Bad business plan and all.
So I sold a stack of MJ stuff right off to a working dj.
I had almost no back up copies because MJ's stuff sold better than Dark Side Of The Moon and Sgt Peppers for me anyway before all this happened.
I have fielded calls from people looking for Invincible and Dangerous, which I don't have. I am guessing they are fans.
I pulled my sealed copy of Thriller off the shelf.
My impression is the Jacksons lps seem to lack the interest that J5 and solo lps have.
And that is what it is like out here in Cully.
I will talk to Crossroads soon and see what they say.
Dan
MJ's death just lifted the economy 5%
Reading that gear slut thread confirmed that not only are these great dance records, great 80s nostalgia and great Motown records, these are also great sounding records.
Yes distinctly different populations.
Beatles collectors are old and will start selling their collections off in about 10-20 years as they move into nursing homes. They will flood the market and the value of Beatles records will plummet. You think Michael sold a lot of records? Wait until those Beatles hoarders start unloading.
MJ collectors on the other had are younger. Mid 30s. These are prime collecting years. The years when you have the money to buy those records you loved when you were young. Let the hoarding begin!
No, there are actually plenty of dumb people who fancy themselves opportunists out there.
I feared as much, but wanted to believe that somehow mankind was better than this.
Buy high sell low.
I used to frequent a J5/Jacksons Family Record Collectros board. It shut down about 3 years ago.
Most of the cats were in their 20s but the Mods were all 40s cats.
Good times over there.
I am talking about right now not on 6/26/09 or 6/27/09 thats when the prices were ridiculous .....confessions of an MJ grip and flipper.
These $100 copies of "Thriler" will be permanently off the market, as they disappear into permament collections/shrines to MJ. If you pay $100 for something, and in a month someone offers you $1 for it, you're probably going to keep it on sheer principle.
With a gazillion copies sold, these tens of thousands of LPs will never be missed, however. One obvious point that we all know, but that no one has specifically mentioned, is that back when "Thriller" dropped, your choice was either LP or cassette tape. Not only did this record sell a lot of copies, it sold a lot of vinyl copies.
I have specifically mentioned it.
My point was the opposite.
A lot of copies were cassette.
B/W
There were 3,000 vinyl copies of Thriller up on ebay two days a go.
Touch??. Speaking from personal experience, my copy was also a cassette.
Thriller came out in '82. According to your chart, vinyl accounted for 70% of sales that year.
Just speaking from personal experience, I would've assumed that the vast majority of copies sold were on vinyl.
This is staggering. Add to that all the bootleg RIP buttons and T-Shirts everywhere and he could singlehandedly revive some peoples incomes from beyond the grave. I thought for a second it was exploitative but now I actually like this, and I now think he would be pleased.
Doesn't the graph show them even by '83?
Then vinyl taking a sharp downturn and cassettes dominating the market?
Billie Jean was the first single off of Thriller. It hit #1 in 1983.
The lp hit the charts Christmas of '82 and stayed in the top 40 more than 2 years well into 84'.
I'm not sure what your experience is, but mine would tell me the majority are cassette.
Im MJ's case, at that time, folks wanted the bigger LP image, despite the cassette's space saver.
The gatefold itself is part of the story.
But numbers dont lie. If cassettes were the thing at the time...well.
I guess the question is when did Thriller sell the most? In the first year or the second?
And what are the vinyl:cassette ratios during each year?
Yer, thriller was a gatefold, you're going to choose that over the cassette.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the cassettes had been junked by now, because most people don't value them. But lots of people hang on to their vinyl in the mistaken belief that it's worth something.
One reason cassettes boomed is because of the increase in car players.
Then the increase in boom boxes.
From Joel Whitburns Billboard book of Top 40 Albums.
date it entered the top 40: 12/25/82
Peak position #1 for 37 weeks
Number of weeks on the chart 91
2#1 hits, 1#2 hit, 1#4, 1#5, 1#7, 1#10 = 7 top ten singles.
There were 8 #1 lps in 1982. Thriller was not one of them.
5 #1 lps in '83 Thriller, Flashdance, Synchronicity, Mental Health, Can't Slow Down.
Only 4 #1 lps in '84 Footloose, Sports (Huey Lewis), Born In The USA, Purple Rain.
Now back in the 80s there was no soundscan and labels lied about album sales.
(today there is soundscan and they still lie.)
Also as I said, pressing plants were backdooring 100s of 1,000s of copies.
So we can't know for sure how many were sold and how many were lps and how many were cassettes.
Millions of both, and it will never be a rarity.
My only point was that not all of the 40million sold were vinyl.
BTW: back about '83 the RIAA was trying to stop illegal home taping of music.
According to the RIAA 7 illegal home copies were made of each album sold.
So according to the RIAA there were 280,000,000 copies of Thriller, one for each man, woman and child in the USA.
Everyday Music said that before his death they were selling Thriller for $15-20 already.
(This is a story that puts $20 on 2nd press Johnny Cash records. Put mostly moves lots of vinyl at under $5.00)
They had 5 copies of Thriller on display from $10-40.
They went to their warehouse and pulled all copies of Thriller.
The $40 one had A1/B1 stampers.
Clerks didn't seem to know about that.
They said it was all about Thriller, not much interest in other titles.
Crossroads was sold out of Michael solo stuff and J5 but had still had the Jacksons.